THE FRENCH DESERVE BETTER THAN THEY GET - Editorial by Norman Lockman

The News Journal ^ | Sept. 3, 2003 | Norman Lockman

[G.Mason]

Very good read.

Thanks

[Graybeard58]

"We would have won with out them,it just would have taken longer.We werent a bunch of pussys back then"

That's the way I read it too. We would have won with or without them, it may have taken a little longer but we still would have prevailed without them.
The French had their own interests at heart, nothing unusual about that but to attribute their motives to altruism is ridiculous.
Lafayette joined the American cause for his own reasons that had more to do with seeking fame and glory than anything else. Some members of the U.S. Congress were sucking up to all things French even then. Why else would they have made Lafayette a General on July 31st,1777 at the ripe old age of 19?
It was after all, AMERICAN troops commanded by Lafayette.

[Calvin Locke]

...Americans owe it to France....

Wrong. Americans owe it to the King of France. Didn't the French behead him?

[WhyisaTexasgirlinPA]

And as a liberal journalist, he tends to gloss over the facts that don't follow what he is trying to convey to the average reader

[JOHANNES801]

We fought the Brits twice and now they are our friend.The french where our friend but now they are our enemy.

[WhyisaTexasgirlinPA]

Y'all might enjoy this thread -

[RangerHobbit]

I made my last trip to England in the late seventies and remember a little box on the Sunday London Times that showed the war debt payment the Brits had made to America at that point following WWII, with interest and principal figures entered as well. They were the only country on earth to pay us back. Everyone else either had their debts forgiven, or they took it upon themselves to renege. We didn't get a nickel from France in spite of the fact that more American soldiers have died on French soil than anywhere else on earth outside of America; 150,000 perhaps? Don't tell me we "owe" France. Our debt was paid in full a long time ago.

[RangerHobbit]

I made my last trip to England in the late seventies and remember a little box on the Sunday London Times that showed the war debt payment the Brits had made to America at that point following WWII, with interest and principal figures entered as well. They were the only country on earth to pay us back. Everyone else either had their debts forgiven, or they took it upon themselves to renege. We didn't get a nickel from France in spite of the fact that more American soldiers have died on French soil than anywhere else on earth outside of America; 150,000 perhaps? Don't tell me we "owe" France. Our debt was paid in full a long time ago.

[TexasCowboy]

Please thank Mike for putting this "aid" into perspective.
Few people take an interest in researching the facts.

It must be remembered, also, that the French didn't render their miniscule aid out of the generosity of their hearts or because they wanted America to be free and independent.
They wanted America to be a French possession.

The worm turned just thirteen years later when the French people brought the absolute monarchy of Louis XVI crashing down with ideas borrowed from the American Revolution.

Semper Fi, Mike

[WhyisaTexasgirlinPA]

Thanks - I will pass along your Semper Fi..... you know a lot about history yourself Cowboy...... nice points.....

[rdb3]

That was then. This is now.

To hell with France and Europe.

[MarkL]

The next time you hear a bunch of talk show patriots trash-talking the French for congenital anti-Americanism, ingratitude and cowardice because France led the international opposition to President Bush's misadventure in Iraq, politely inform them there would be no United States of America without France.

We Americans tend to be historically challenged, but there is no excuse for not knowing a Franco-American alliance beat the British in the Revolutionary War. It took a lot more than Gen. George Washington's ragtag Continental Army to rout the Red Coats. Not knowing that is unforgivable for a true patriot.

Hey, Zippy, things, times, countried, and governments have a way of changing over the years. As an example, should we say that things in NAZI Germany weren't really all that bad for Jews, since during the years before the early 1930's, when things started getting bad, Germany was one of the best places for Jews to be in all of Europe?

The fact is, that countries will always act in their own self interest. France's perceived self interest has been at odds with that of the US since the 1960's, and it's gotten worse over the years. France had lots of $$$ tied up with the Hussien government and Baath Party in Iraq, so it's not suprising that they did all they could to discourage our course of action, then when that didn't work, they actively worked against the interests of the US. Again, I have no problem with any country acting in their own self interest. However, now they (and you) are crying about how mean we are for punnishing them for their actions. Well, too damn bad. They did what was best for themselves, and now we're doing what's best for ourselves. Their actions caused problems for us, and more importantly, for our troops. Excuse me while I don't shed a tear or give a second thought to the problems France is now facing due to their actions against us.

Mark

[marsh2]

It is ironic now that independence from England was, in part, an act done to serve the requirements of European International Law.

The armies of the "general government" were in dire need of supplies. However, under international law, the colonies were still considered parts of England, engaged in a civil war. Aid to any of them by a country, such as France, would be considered an entry into England's internal affairs. The primary issue of the time was establishing "sovereignty" on the international level.

Stated Thomas Jefferson:
"That a declaration of independence alone could render it consistent with European delicacy for European powers to treat with us, or even to receive an Ambassador from us."

Richard Henry Lee wrote on June 2, 1776:
"It is not choice then but necessity that calls for independence as the only means by which foreign alliance can be obtained."

Accordingly, during the 1776 Continental Congress, Virginia's Richard Henry Lee proposed the following interlocking resolutions:
"That these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent states, that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved.
"That it is expedient forthwith to take the most effectual measures for forming foreign alliances.
"That a plan of confederation be prepared and transmitted to the respective colonies for their consideration and approbation."

After approving Lee's interlocking resolutions, the Continental Congress proceeded to form three separate committees: one to write a formal Declaration of Independence; one with representation from all thirteen States to draft Articles of Confederation; and one to draft the Treaty with France. (An Alliance with the King of France was finally made on February 6, 1778.)

[Nachum]

From the looks of things, France and other European nations may have to come to our rescue in Iraq.

Just one word: Muslims.

From the looks of things, the US will have to save the Frog's pitiful asses from themselves AGAIN.

[Squantos]

politely inform them there would be no United States of America without France

And there would be no France with out America in WWI and WW II and the Cold War.... How many damn times do we have to repay a debt Norman ? We have three paid in full reciepts for their one job.

[metesky]

Thank you.

Oh, and far from running to Vergennes badmouthing Washington, Lafayette worshipped Washington like a god and Washington in return looked on Lafayette as the son he never had..

[q_an_a]

This guy got his thrid grade history book out and came up with this crap. What have they doen sice they sold us the west because they needed cash? They are our "friends "because they are the seat of socialism, the word comrade starts with the French Revolution...not. They are our friends because the bailed us out of their wars in 1915 and 1942...not. They are our friends because DeGaulle appreciated our help and showed it with the support of NATO and the US bases on French soil...not. Tell this guy to stick it where the sun don't shine and to take his old history book and can it there too.

[reed_inthe_wind]

French action against Britain and its colonies preceded the Revolutionary War. Spend an additional 15 minutes on the internet and read about the French Indian Wars that resulted in the slaughter of many pioneers.

Historical French anatagonism towards European powers is now focused against America. When we are most vulnerable, will the French strike us?

[metesky]

When we are most vulnerable, will the French strike us?

Bwahahaha!

[Psycho_Bunny]

If Norman wants to play tit-for-tat about France....after murdering the Huguenots and driving them out of their own country, the French already owed their colonial brethren a debt of honor at the outbreak of the American Revolution.