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RON PAUL Changes the Republican Party, or Not?
Graewoulf | January 10, 2012 | Graewoulf

Posted on 01/10/2012 10:50:31 AM PST by Graewoulf

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To: SaxxonWoods
“I don’t think Paul is sending the thugs, the thugs do this on their own”

It doesn't matter whether Paul specifically orders it or his operatives order it. Ron Paul is an Obama/Soros stooge. He never attacks Obama or Romney. He only attacks conservatives(Santorum and Newt).

51 posted on 01/10/2012 12:34:37 PM PST by detective
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To: detective

Agreed. And his goons are strangely silent at Huntsman events too.


52 posted on 01/10/2012 12:37:08 PM PST by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Responsibility2nd
Lol. How much time did you spend checking out my posts just to find that one that doesn't even come close to proving your point?

Since you are so fixated on that post. Prove it wrong.

I don't believe in stealing from one to give to another. I also don't believe in controlling another person's life and dictating my morals on them. I have plenty going on in my life to worry about.
53 posted on 01/10/2012 12:38:54 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: GlockThe Vote

Ron Paul does not have a prayer of beating Obama.

No 76 year-old has a prayer of being elected President. The electorate will not seriously consider a man who would turn 80 in his first term.

The prevailing view on Paul, right or wrong, is that he is an old loon who runs for President and makes a fool of himself. That perception is not changing, it is growing as Paul gets more attention.

Pauls last campaign ends soon, unless he runs as a third party candidate, and I pray that he does. He will pull more votes from Obama than the Republican nominee.


54 posted on 01/10/2012 12:38:54 PM PST by SaxxonWoods (....The days are long, but the years are short.....)
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To: GlockThe Vote

Ron Paul does not have a prayer of beating Obama.

No 76 year-old has a prayer of being elected President. The electorate will not seriously consider a man who would turn 80 in his first term.

The prevailing view on Paul, right or wrong, is that he is an old loon who runs for President and makes a fool of himself. That perception is not changing, it is growing as Paul gets more attention.

Pauls last campaign ends soon, unless he runs as a third party candidate, and I pray that he does. He will pull more votes from Obama than from the Republican nominee.


55 posted on 01/10/2012 12:39:10 PM PST by SaxxonWoods (....The days are long, but the years are short.....)
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To: SaxxonWoods

RP and Romney are the only two right now beating obama or are tied. FACT


56 posted on 01/10/2012 12:47:21 PM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Graewoulf
“lot of emotion against Ron Paul by everybody else.”

The opposition to Ron Paul is not emotion. No honest, intelligent person can support Ron Paul.

Ron Paul's supporter ignore everything about him and for the most part are ignorant of his actual record. Or else they are Obama operatives like the Occupy thugs who threaten Newt and Santorum.

Ron Paul supports Iran which is supplying IED’s that maim and kill American servicemen. He supports Iran which is building nuclear weapons that it brags it will use against the U.S. and Israel.

He is working with the Soros funded group C.R.E.W. to spread lies about Rick Santorum.

I am tired of the Ron Paul useful idiots incorrectly calling him a constitutionalist or a fiscal conservative.

Ron Paul is a liar and he is working to ensure Obama’s reelection.

57 posted on 01/10/2012 12:50:28 PM PST by detective
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To: GlockThe Vote

Paul has zero, nada, zip, not a chance in hell to beat BHO.
Romney has a better chance to beat BHO, however he wont.
Your premise is faulty, a bogus choice.


58 posted on 01/10/2012 12:58:28 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: GlockThe Vote; SaxxonWoods

Hey, glock are those the same polls that Paul was going to win Iowa?


59 posted on 01/10/2012 1:01:56 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: ejonesie22

“You think Jefferson, the man who went after the Barbary Pirates would brown nose Iran ala Ron Paul style?”

Remember as well that Jefferson authorized the overthrow of the Tripoli government - a first in our history - but later withdrew support with a possible wink, wink, nod, nod since the plan did continue. How very neocon of him, eh?

Note also that Washington greatly tangled the United States in foreign affiars, despite his often quoted writings. He issues letters of marque against British ships on behalf of France and supported the Jay Treaty that normalized relations with Britian and lead to an undeclared navel war with France.

The point is that one must look at the actions of these people as well as their writings and political philosophies. Paul and his supporters (and not a few other conservitives) like to quote the writings of the founding fathers, but then ignore their actions.


60 posted on 01/10/2012 1:51:37 PM PST by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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To: Graewoulf

Ron Paul is getting traction because the GOP has ignored the people. The Tea Party spoke very clearly and consistently and the GOP establishment scoffed at it all - no different than Pelosi or Reid did.

Just ask any elected Tea Party candidate Boehner and McConnell have systematically shut them down.

Just look at the candidates we have to choose from ALL OF THEM ARE BIG GOVERNMENT with the exception of Rick Perry and Ron Paul.

If the GOP establishment had actually put forth a candidate who was the best for this country (not slightly better than Obama) and not what was best for their dirty, establishment cabal this primary season would be completely different.

Look at the insanity now with Gingrich - what a loon!!! Preaching the occupy mantra against Romney and we have people here on FR that actually agree with Gingrich about Bain capital - too bad Gingrich couldn’t attack Romney on healthcare - oh yeah he can’t because he supported individual mandate for two decades!!!

What a farce! We are getting screwed once again...we never learn. Last time we had the idiot McCain - really that was the best Conservative for the job?

For the record I have thrown my support behind Santorum, even though he has big government tendencies he seems to be the only candidate I can’t catch in a lie - amazing actually.

If you want to defeat Romney then Gingrich, Perry and Ron Paul should get together and throw their support behind Rick Santorum and unveil a new contract for America that they really mean and America needs. All Gingrich is doing now is going to ensure Obama gets re-elected!


61 posted on 01/10/2012 2:03:00 PM PST by surfer (To err is human, to really foul things up takes a Democrat, don't expect the GOP to have the answer!)
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To: Owl558
They also forget that these great men had one quality that made them even greater, pragmatism.

They lived in the real world of the late 18th and early 19th Century and responded accordingly. If they were here today they would understand new threats and new realities of our time and act in the best interest of our nation.

Paul and his brood think it's still 1789, and even in that time they would still be idiots...

62 posted on 01/10/2012 2:17:28 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22

“Paul and his brood think it’s still 1789, and even in that time they would still be idiots...”

Hmm, applying Paul’s policies, the revolution could have never taken place since we had to borrow $$$ to conduct it, but if it did, how would have American History been changed if Paul supporters had been in charge? In no order:

1) they would have been against the Louisiana Purchase because the Constitution was silent on the issue (this actually happened).
2) ok with British and French fort building in the Great Lakes region
3) US agression in Florida against the Spanish MUST stop!
4) They would disavow the Texas rebels and refuse to support them because we cannot interfere in the affairs of other countries.
5) tell impressed sailors that they were on their own and, thus, avoid the unfortunite War of 1812 - the great yankee merchant and whaling fleets would never exist.
6) cede the Oregon territory to Britian - After all, the US fought 2 illegal wars against the British, we must understand why they hate us
7) Restrain American settlers from entering Spanish territory to the west - manifest destiny is suppressed
8) California territory stays Mexican
9) Disavow the abolitionist movement since the constitution provides for slavery
10) Virginia, N. Carolina, S. Carolina, & Georgia secceed because the constitution is silent on secession. The union that never grew much beyond 13 colonies is left with 9 states, maybe 10.

Anyway, that is my list. I stayed away from WWI and WWII.


63 posted on 01/10/2012 4:24:57 PM PST by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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64 posted on 01/10/2012 5:32:06 PM PST by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: surfer

” - - - Ron Paul is getting traction because the GOP has ignored the people. “

Perhaps that is why Paul did so well in New Hampshire tonight?

If so, do you think that the GOP will adjust to, or continue to ignore Paul?


65 posted on 01/10/2012 8:05:17 PM PST by Graewoulf (( obama"care" violates the 1890 Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND is illegal by the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Graewoulf

I wish a candidate would truly endorse and support cutting government.

Just look at the elections since Reagan...freaking disaster across the board.


66 posted on 01/10/2012 8:14:18 PM PST by surfer (To err is human, to really foul things up takes a Democrat, don't expect the GOP to have the answer!)
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To: Graewoulf
Go ahead....admit it you want....
Ron Paul-Kucinich 2012

Paul wants Kucinich
Kucinich wants Paul

They LOVE each other.
See for yourself...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4DRZP9JgBA

67 posted on 01/10/2012 8:29:34 PM PST by TheCause ("that these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent States")
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To: svcw

Wrong! You need to read up on your history.

You are completely delusional if you believe the found fathers were about Preemptive war abroad.


68 posted on 01/10/2012 11:16:37 PM PST by Sprite518
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To: Graewoulf

Good posts.


69 posted on 01/10/2012 11:25:55 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: ejonesie22

B.S.

He likes the Founding Fathers and the U.S. Constitution.

Jefferson wanted to protect cargo ships from attack by Pirates. Thus, the Navy. Thomas Jefferson did not want a Navy to start Preemptive wars with other countries.

You want to start wars kind like Nazi Germany to stop them and convert them, but that’s not what our founding fathers envisioned.


70 posted on 01/10/2012 11:53:48 PM PST by Sprite518
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To: svcw
MASS APPEAL .......... (laughing smiley)

First of all, he said "to independents sick to death of the GOP..." Are you denying that independents who are sick of the GOP like Ron Paul?

Secondly, the majority of this country are tired of the wars. (read it and weep.) and all the BS going on in politics. So, RP does appeal to many people who are sick of both the GOP AND the Dems, because there really is little difference, especially on the important issues that are slowly destroying our nation. I had to reply because I found it funny that (based on your above post) you seem to think that *your* position is the mainstream one. Sorry, but it just isn't. On FR it is, yes. I'll give you that. But not in the nation at large.

71 posted on 01/11/2012 12:26:58 AM PST by incindiary (http://youtu.be/ifJG_oFFDK0)
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To: Sprite518
No, I want to invade countries with crazy leaders who want my family dead and have the ability or are soon to gain the ability to shoot nuclear weapons at us.

Its not the age of sail, its not 1789 and even in the early days of this nation the founders took measures to protect America regardless of location.

Ron Paul would have been on British TV voicing opposition to the early nation opposing Britain because we were provoking them.

http://thebandofpatriots.com/blog/2011/8/2/its-conservatism-stupid-or-why-i-wont-ever-support-ron-paul.html

72 posted on 01/11/2012 3:31:13 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22; Servant of the Cross
Now now, don’t go hitting Paulinoids with facts...

It will not matter. Paulbots are not programmed to accept facts. They are not able to think, they are only programmed to follow, follow their messiah, the surrender monkey.
73 posted on 01/11/2012 3:44:21 AM PST by John D
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To: John D

They sure are out in force. Admins slowly whacking them...


74 posted on 01/11/2012 3:46:29 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Sprite518

I may be delusional but at least I am not a paulbot.


75 posted on 01/11/2012 5:57:10 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: incindiary

I’ll tell you what when Paul wins anything , anything at all (barely even wins his own district) then you can tell me how “mass appeal” he is.


76 posted on 01/11/2012 6:00:28 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: Sprite518

Ok, lets do this. You actually look up Paul’s 30 years history: what he has done, said and written not what other people have said he has done, said or written then we will talk. Paul is not who you think he is.
Oh, yea and read up on what the founder DID, not their musings. If you think we (USA) was not involved when they believed our interested would be served - ha!


77 posted on 01/11/2012 6:04:21 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: traviskicks; incindiary; All

Now that Iowa and New Hampshire have proven Willy Rom-Rom RINO and Ron Paul to be the two top vote getters in the Republican Party, do you think that Romney will choose Paul to be his Veep?

BTW, “The Vulture” and “The Doctor” might be just what we need to rescue America from its financial death spiral!


78 posted on 01/11/2012 6:34:46 AM PST by Graewoulf (( obama"care" violates the 1890 Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND is illegal by the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Graewoulf

Are you joking? The very question is delusional. Even if Paul were a rational human being, a VP is chosen to possibly carry the next eight years....the man is old now.


79 posted on 01/11/2012 6:41:44 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: svcw; Jim Robinson; hocndoc; DrDan4Congress; JakeS; incindiary; traviskicks; w1andsodidwe; All

” - - - a VP is chosen to possibly carry the next eight years....the man is old now.”

Konrad Adenauer in post WW2 West Germany did very well as their chancellor from 1949 to 1963. He was 87 when he retired and lived another 4 years.

Ron Paul is a medical doctor, in good health, and realistic about the LONG length of time required to downsize the Medical Entitlements of Medicare, Medicaid, and the illegal Obama”Care.”

The medical doctor as Veep could in just ONE year set up the blueprint to downsize the medical entitlements, and still have 3 years to ram it down the libs throats. ( Say “AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH,” libs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

The odds are that the libs, (in “both” parties), will rally in 2016, and mount a massive reaction Campaign against President Willy Rom-Rom RINO.

But if Willy holds up his end of the “Vulture” bargain, and picks the bones clean on ALL the rotting crops in THE ENTITLEMENT PLANTATION, then he may be able to stay in office for a full eight years. Otherwise, the RINOs will be served Willy-Rom toast, and the cancer of Obamanation will again pollute our Republic.

BTW, Ron Paul would probably step down in 2016 and allow his son Rand to replace him as Veep AND continue thankless, ( except by us), task of keeping BIG Government RINO Romney on the Conservative side of the GOP Establishment RINOland. A DAILY “check and balance” system on BIG Government Willy Rom-Rom RINO. (Sort of a “Paul” cast over the flaming-lib tendencies of Willy Rom, the “Massachusettes Moderate.”)

BTW, BTW, REALITY knows no loyalty. Paul is the best AVAILABLE reality check to Willy Rom. So suck it up FReepers, and make the best of the cards that are being dealt, and DOWNSIZE the US Federal Government!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


80 posted on 01/11/2012 8:05:30 AM PST by Graewoulf (( obama"care" violates the 1890 Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND is illegal by the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Graewoulf

Ok, how sad for you that you have gone from trumpeting Paul as the best to now trumpeting Romney/Paul as the best team.
Your family must be devastated that you no longer live in the real world with them, they must miss you.


81 posted on 01/11/2012 8:14:38 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: Graewoulf
So suck it up FReepers?

Nice...

You Paulitards are so much fun.

82 posted on 01/11/2012 8:30:05 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Graewoulf
Rep. Dr. Ron Paul is the only Candidate now running who: 6. Will get us nuked.
83 posted on 01/11/2012 8:32:10 AM PST by Colonel_Flagg (Why, yes. I AM in a bad mood.)
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To: Graewoulf

Ron Paul is not all that healthy if I had to guess from the tremor and slurred speech. Nevertheless, he’s 76 years old and will be 77 by election day, Lord willing.

Secondly, he didn’t have a clue about how to build the coalitions he spoke of last night for the 26 years he’s been in Congress. There’s no reason to believe he’ll suddenly learn about working with others.

His followers are openly soliciting leftists to vote for him in the primaries, as I saw them do in ‘08. They still don’t have enough backing to win.


84 posted on 01/11/2012 9:05:05 AM PST by hocndoc (WingRight.org: Have mustard seed, not afraid to use it. Cut spending, now,now,now!)
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To: Sprite518

“Thomas Jefferson did not want a Navy to start Preemptive wars with other countries.”

Iran has been at war with us for decades. Nothing preemptive about that.

Remember, the Barbary Pirates declared war un the US first. Jefferson even unilaterly authorized the overthrow of their government without Congressional authorization.

Washington personally lead an army against western Pennsylvania without Congressional approval in order to put down an insurrection many many decades before the Civil War.

John Adams fought an undeclared navel war with France.

James Madison fought the second Barbary War without a declaration of war. Congress authorized use of force like was done in Vietnam, Iraq, etc., but did not issue a declaration.

Jackson simply invaded Spanish florida.

What you think you know about the founding fathers is questionable. Learn what they DID as well as what they wrote.

The point, which you aptly demonstrate, is that too many Paul supporters bury their heads in the sand when it comes to actual American History and the real threats facing our country.

And, please, nobody disagrees with the point that Congress should be declaring war, but as a point of fact, the founding father’s actions were often at odds with Constitutional principles.

The imaginary republic you think existed, never really did.


85 posted on 01/11/2012 10:08:46 AM PST by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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To: hocndoc

” - - - They still don’t have enough backing to win.”

Maybe not, but if Dr. Paul in Tampa is second in votes cast, would he then be a good check and balance Veep for Willy Romney?


86 posted on 01/11/2012 10:37:48 AM PST by Graewoulf (( obama"care" violates the 1890 Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND is illegal by the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Owl558

Declarations of wars are for sending our Troops to foreign countries to invade.

You don’t need a declaration of war in your own country or if the war is at Sea. So to point out that George Washington sending some troops into Western Pennsylvania, John Adams naval war (another war at Sea), or Thomas Jefferson war with the Pirates is rubbish.

It’s even more B.S. to suggest that the founding father were ALL ABOUT being the police man of the world by preemptive war.

While it is true are last official Declaration of War was in World War II. Look at what happened to the countries we did not declare war with... All it leads to is endless wars and when we leave the country it eventually falls.

I have no problem if we are attacked to defend ourselves. However, I do not want our country to be the police man of the world.

All points aside for a minute. We can’t afford. We are going broke. Have you seen this link?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


87 posted on 01/11/2012 10:47:48 AM PST by Sprite518
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To: Graewoulf

Oh, yeah, sure like Biden is a “good check and balance Veep” for Obama. GIGO counts in politics as much as anywhere.


88 posted on 01/11/2012 11:33:55 AM PST by hocndoc (WingRight.org: Have mustard seed, not afraid to use it. Cut spending, now,now,now!)
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To: Sprite518
I knew a proper discussion would be difficult. The constitution provides for militia to be called out in the case of insurrection, not regular army like Washington used. The Barbary war was was a land war with American marines invading the Ottoman Empire. "Shores of Tripoli..." Congress still must "...define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;" Presidents do not have the power to engage in Naval wars without Congress. Andrew Jackson simply invaded Florida. More to your point, I think, is that NOBODY has suggested that the founders were for the US being the world's policeman. This is a straw arguement on your part. What the founders did was act pragmatically in American interests at home and abroad. They recognized threats and acted in what they thought were the best interests of the country. Sometimes their actions fell outside the Constitution. Again, the pure constitutional republic you pine for never really existed. I'm not advocating what these people did, simply trying to clarify historical misconceptions that get repeated ad nauseum by Paul supporters (and many other self-proclamed constitutionalists).
89 posted on 01/11/2012 12:02:04 PM PST by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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To: Owl558

The Marines went to the Harbor of Tripoli. They did not invade the country. That is why they say the “shores” of Tripoli.

At any rate thanks for the good reply, nice points, but I disagree with your summary.


90 posted on 01/11/2012 12:46:23 PM PST by Sprite518
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To: Sprite518

“At any rate thanks for the good reply, nice points, but I disagree with your summary.”

Thank you for the discussion as well. I think we agree on the broad point that the United States is NOT the world’s policeman.

Cheers


91 posted on 01/11/2012 1:24:57 PM PST by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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To: Graewoulf
The medical doctor as Veep could in just ONE year set up the blueprint to downsize the medical entitlements,

The thing is the surrender monkey is never going to do anything. He has been in Washington well over a quarter century and never done anything except acquire earmarks, complain, and blame America or Israel for every problem in the world. What makes you think he would change now?
92 posted on 01/11/2012 1:54:07 PM PST by John D
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To: Sprite518

Thanks for the hotlink to the National Debt Clock.

I often wonder why only Dr. Paul brings our National Debt into every speech he makes.

Maybe it is a Doctor thing? You know, recognizing sick patients (read: US Treasury).


93 posted on 01/11/2012 2:00:39 PM PST by Graewoulf (( obama"care" violates the 1890 Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND is illegal by the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: John D

Dr. Paul is the second best Republican vote getter. That puts him in the running to be the Nominee’s Veep.

What effect do you think Veep Candidate Paul would have on the Republican Party voting in 11-2012?


94 posted on 01/11/2012 2:09:04 PM PST by Graewoulf (( obama"care" violates the 1890 Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND is illegal by the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Graewoulf
Dr. Paul is the second best Republican vote getter.

Only in open primaries where his democratic base can vote.

What effect do you think Veep Candidate Paul would have on the Republican Party voting in 11-2012?


It would scare off all the conservative voters. What conservative would ever vote for someone who blames America for every problem in the world, endorses OWS and Cynthia McKinney, acquires more earmarks than any candidate running, from both parties, wants to experiment with perverts in the military, wants to legalize all drugs and prostitution, plus endorsing many more anti-conservative positions?
I doubt if there are any. He may get some support from his base (the very far left) who think Obama is too conservative, but not much.
95 posted on 01/11/2012 2:30:28 PM PST by John D
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