Free Republic
Browse · Search
GOP Club
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

GOP civil war: Herman Cain calls for third party
Salon ^ | November 7, 2012 | Alex Seitz-Wald

Posted on 11/09/2012 5:24:02 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

It’s been less than 24 hours since the polls closed and already the first shots in an emerging civil war within the conservative movement are being fired. Right-leaning pundits have been taking turns beating up on Mitt Romney and blaming him for the loss last night. Donald Trump just tweeted, “Congrats to @KarlRove on blowing $400 million this cycle. Every race @CrossroadsGPS ran ads in, the Republicans lost. What a waste of money.” And GOP leaders are already taking to the barricades on either side of the divide, which basically comes down to this question: Were Romney and the GOP too conservative or not conservative enough?

Steve Schmidt, a top Republican strategist who ran John McCain’s 2008 campaign, invoked the term on MSNBC this morning. “When I talk about a civil war in the Republican Party, what I mean is, it’s time for Republican elected leaders to stand up and to repudiate this nonsense [of the extreme right wing], and to repudiate it directly,” he said.

But on the other side of the fight, Herman Cain, the former presidential candidate who still has a robust following via his popular talk radio program and speaking tours, today suggested the most clear step to open civil war: secession. Appearing on Bryan Fischer’s radio program this afternoon, Cain called for a large faction of Republican Party leaders to desert the party and form a third, more conservative party.

“I never thought that I would say this, and this is the first time publicly that I’ve said it: We need a third party to save this country. Not Ron Paul and the Ron Paulites. No. We need a legitimate third party to challenge the current system that we have, because I don’t believe that the Republican Party … has the ability to rebrand itself,” Cain said.

Fischer, a social conservative leader, noted that he predicted this summer that if Mitt Romney loses, evangelical conservatives would start a third party. “If Barack Obama wins this election the Republican Party as we know it is finished, it is dead, it is toast,” Fischer said in September at the Values Voter Summit in Washington.

Rush Limabugh, two months ago, echoed the sentiment. ”If Obama wins, let me tell you what it’s the end of: the Republican Party. There’s gonna be a third party that’s gonna be oriented toward conservatism,” he said.

“It is more viable today than it has ever been,” Cain told Fischer today of a third party.

After the GOP’s crushing 2008 loss, there was lots of talk about a new third party. When the Tea Party emerged, this talk almost became a reality. Instead, the conservative activists opted for a hostile takeover of the GOP. It’s still very unlikely that Cain or anyone else could start a viable third party, but his comments underscore the cleavage within the conservative movement in the wake of the defeat last night.


TOPICS: Issues; Parties
KEYWORDS: gopcivilwar; hermancain; rinos; ronpaul; rushlimbaugh; steveschmidt; sublamation; talkradio; teaparty; thirdparty
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-83 last
To: SoConPubbie
Well, I remember too well the big push for a third party in 1991 - many conservatives thought a third party would do well and pushed Ross Perot. That was an utter failure to create a third party.

The problem is far greater than you imagine - you need total organization in all 50 states, complete with full party registration, full party membership that runs well into the millions of members.

You can't create that fast enough, and there are too many tea party members working to build the GOP up from the bottom to stop them from doing that and get them to start all over again.

51 posted on 11/09/2012 6:22:43 PM PST by Ron C.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
Talk of forming a third party for Conservatives won't help for one reason. The reason we're getting more RINOs is because Americans in general are moving to the left. In the case of Conservatives, many would have been called moderates a few years ago.

Take Scott Brown for example. Does any one here think that Massachusetts voters would have elected a real Conservative instead? I know this is an extreme example, but we're facing the same situation to a lesser degree throughout the country. If the GOP is running RINOs instead of Conservatives in the general elections, it's because the VOTERS nominated them.

I realize attacking the GOP is the easy way out, but if voters won't elect true Conservatives as Republicans, they won't vote for them under another party name. Until we address that and win Americans back to Conservative values, we'll keep getting RINOs.

52 posted on 11/09/2012 6:24:52 PM PST by TwelveOfTwenty (Ho, ho, hey, hey, I'm BUYcotting Chick-Fil-A)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SoConPubbie

It looks to me like we’ve lost the country, and we sure are not going to regain it with Northeastern Liberal Republicans running the GOP. A week ago, I strongly opposed a third party. But now I figure we have nothing to lose but despair...


53 posted on 11/09/2012 6:25:46 PM PST by Mr Rogers (America is becoming California, and California is becoming Detroit. Detroit is already hell.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Cringing Negativism Network
Bunk.

Things are different, and things are broken.

We need a new approach.

What are you waiting for then? There are plenty of third party's and some fake Tea Party's that the Democrats fund too. You could even join FR's own Tom Hoefling's party that got some tiny fraction of votes and made utterly no difference.

We hear this 3rd party blather around every election and it isn't going to amount to squat. Even Ron Paul figured this out which is why he runs in the Republican Party now. The nutty LaRouchies even know this which is why they run as Democrats.

54 posted on 11/09/2012 6:26:58 PM PST by Longbow1969
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Ron C.
Well, I remember too well the big push for a third party in 1991 - many conservatives thought a third party would do well and pushed Ross Perot. That was an utter failure to create a third party.

That was a disaster for another reason. Since Clinton was in the White House when Ecommerce and Y2K created all of those tech jobs, he got the credit. Even now, many Americans still give Clinton credit for that boom, even though it would have happened regardless of who was President. As a result, we're still fighting against the memory of "Clinton's economy".

55 posted on 11/09/2012 6:29:52 PM PST by TwelveOfTwenty (Ho, ho, hey, hey, I'm BUYcotting Chick-Fil-A)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: Longbow1969

Thanks.

Or we could form our own. A real, conservative American party.

I’m in if we do. I’ll vote for our guy (or lady) if we do not.

It’s a bit soon to get most interested yet. But let’s not wait too long.

:D


56 posted on 11/09/2012 6:30:30 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network (America doesn't need any new laws. America needs freedom!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
IMHO only, we can start anything we want...but nothing has an effect until we take back the mass media...Soros has won these battle thus far by doing so. There is absolutely no way to deny that.

In a fair minded media this purple lipped bastard would have never made it in office to begin with.

Controlling the media is the first step in every communist/marxist/socialist takeover...they have had it for a long time now.

As much as I hate presenting a problem without offering a solution, as stupid as it may be, I have very little on how to get the 6 o'clock news, the Stewarts/Letterman/Lenos back to balanced...Even those powerful enough with cash are going to have a hard time getting through the FCC license regulations.

57 posted on 11/09/2012 6:32:40 PM PST by IrishPennant (Dr Erkel and Mr. Jive...lurking the streets of DC)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Like the socialists and communist that took over the democrat party, it is time to take the Republican Party back from the RINO’s, socialist lite, country clubbing executives and make it the party for the working man and small businesses.


58 posted on 11/09/2012 6:33:57 PM PST by CORedneck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: IrishPennant
but nothing has an effect until we take back the mass media

Yup, the leftist media probably adds 5-10 points to the Democrats total each and every election - and it moves our culture further and further to the secular left.

Here is what I don't get. Conservative donors manage to pony up hundreds of millions of dollars to Karl Rove's SuperPAC among others, yet they don't seem to realize that this money could be better spent buying up media. Our side needs to be grabbing up media outlets - everything from magazines to entire networks if we can get them.

59 posted on 11/09/2012 6:40:15 PM PST by Longbow1969
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Isn’t this what the Constitution Party is?


60 posted on 11/09/2012 6:46:57 PM PST by LouAvul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Yeah...they nominate a Massuchusetts liberal and yet they lost because he and the party were too conservative. LOL!!


61 posted on 11/09/2012 7:11:50 PM PST by Soul Seeker (I will work every day to make Washington, D.C. as inconsequential in your lives as I can - Perry)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Viennacon

The social conservatives are going to have to take a back seat in the upcoming several election cycles, because at the rate our fiscal situation is deteriorating, the future of the US is rapidly coming into doubt. It is pointless to worry about social issues if we’ve surrendered our national sovereignty to China and other lending nations, or the economy implodes.

Sadly, the social conservatives are so certain of their moral righteousness that they care more about their moral preening rather than whether or not we still have a country, or we end up under someone else’s thumb, the way Greece now is.


62 posted on 11/09/2012 7:13:01 PM PST by NVDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek
To build small? we are running out of time, building small will take decades, if ever.

One part of me wants to go with Cain's idea, and if it can be done with the right leader, I'm switching parties.

Here is the folly is all of it. We already have how many sects/parties under our tent? None of them will BACK THE OTHER EVER, too stiff necked to see the horizon.

They will still cling to their PRINCIPALS, no matter what or whom we elect in a primary. That's the problem.

63 posted on 11/09/2012 7:13:14 PM PST by annieokie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: NVDave

What Obama doesn’t understand is that it is DISHONORABLE to keep pulling out the old credit card and swiping it time after time; then demonizing the “rich” because they’re “rich” and not “paying their fair share”.

It’s evil. Sloth is one of the 7 deadly sins. - If I want a scooter, I’ll get me a used scooter. If I want a cellphone (which I don’t), I’ll get myself hooked up with a provider. We’re not rich; and I’m not bragging, but this is evil. - Oh, and I’ll raise and buy my own food and dowdy clothes! House is paid for after 20 years.


64 posted on 11/09/2012 7:21:05 PM PST by Twinkie (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Ron C.

You don’t need an organization in all 50 states. You need to think about this a bit more cleverly than that.

For example, you’re never going to take NY, NJ, MA, CA, WA, OR, HI, RI, CT, etc. Don’t even bother with those states at first.

If you want to attract the attention of the GOP and make them come to the table, then you need only create a party to give them competition in states where they’ve taken people for granted. Wyoming is a great example - no one even wonders whether or not WY will go GOP - it is just assumed, no matter what.

Well, what happens when they can’t count on those three electoral votes? Or the EV’s from other “dependable” GOP states? Suddenly, their presidential aspirations go up in smoke. They have to deal.

People need to start thinking more creatively about how to make these people come to heel.


65 posted on 11/09/2012 7:22:29 PM PST by NVDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: NVDave

I don’t think we have that much time... I’m betting the bubble is about to burst and all hell is just around the corner now.


66 posted on 11/09/2012 7:28:38 PM PST by Ron C.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: NVDave
Sadly, the social conservatives are so certain of their moral righteousness that they care more about their moral preening rather than whether or not we still have a country, or we end up under someone else’s thumb, the way Greece now is.""""".........

Well stated. the social conservatives are too STIFF necked to see the horizon. We've got to GET INTO the promised land first, then work from there to improve things.

How do you make them understand that principal? I'm stumped.

67 posted on 11/09/2012 7:31:42 PM PST by annieokie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: Ron C.

You’re right - I think we have, at most, three years now.

Romney and Ryan might have given us one or two more years, at most.


68 posted on 11/09/2012 7:36:10 PM PST by NVDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: Cringing Negativism Network

Our media will run ever better against a 3rd party. They will run better against any party, any candidate other than democrat from now on.


69 posted on 11/09/2012 7:38:18 PM PST by adc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: NVDave

In Michigan, the tea partiers showed up at the state convention and formed a conservative coalition and removed our entrenched RINO former state chair and national committeeman, Saul Anuzis.

They negotiated an acceptable compromise among tea party, Pualists, and GOP conservatives. They replaced Anuzis on the national committee with Dave Agema, an established conservative GOP legislator. Agema isn’t perfect but he is a truly vast improvement over Anuzis.


70 posted on 11/09/2012 7:42:31 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: annieokie
You clearly are exactly the type that Levin spoke of.

MARK LEVIN: We conservatives, we do not accept bipartisanship in the pursuit of tyranny. Period. We will not negotiate the terms of our economic and political servitude. Period. We will not abandon our child to a dark and bleak future. We will not accept a fate that is alien to the legacy we inherited from every single future generation in this country. We will not accept social engineering by politicians and bureaucrats who treat us like lab rats, rather than self-sufficient human beings. There are those in this country who choose tyranny over liberty. They do not speak for us, 57 million of us who voted against this yesterday, and they do not get to dictate to us under our Constitution.

We are the alternative. We will resist. We're not going to surrender to this. We will not be passive, we will not be compliant in our demise. We're not good losers, you better believe we're sore losers! A good loser is a loser forever. Now I hear we're called 'purists.' Conservatives are called purists. The very people who keep nominating moderates, now call us purists the way the left calls us purists. Yeah, things like liberty, and property rights, individual sovereignty, and the Constitution, and capitalism. We're purists now. And we have to hear this crap from conservatives, or pseudo-conservatives, Republicans.

71 posted on 11/09/2012 7:45:49 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek
Looks like I am, proud to be a member.

Thanks for the Mark Levin article, I will reread it often.

72 posted on 11/09/2012 8:19:57 PM PST by annieokie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: NVDave

That’s already been tried - the idea of running third party-candidates that have no chance of winning in their own right, but who will serve to snatch up electoral college members, and tie the Electoral College, allowing the third party to act as kingmaker and make demands on one of the two major parties.

The progressives tried it in 1924, with La Follette’s Progressive Party. It failed.

In 1948, the Dixiecrats tried it. Failed again.

In 1960, another effort was made, this time with the infamous “unpledged” elector slates. It was a flop.

And finally, in 1968, the Independent party made another push to tie the Electoral College. It didn’t go anywhere.


73 posted on 11/09/2012 9:10:08 PM PST by JerseyanExile
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Something tells me I’m going to be listening to Herman Cain when he starts his show on Janurary 21st.


74 posted on 11/09/2012 9:14:23 PM PST by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: txrefugee

Steve Schmidt was one of Sarah Palin’s biggest antagonizers in the McCain canpaign. Can’t stomach the guy.


75 posted on 11/09/2012 9:33:58 PM PST by lu shissler (an take his naiv)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

There is a joke in here about him teaming up with Patreus and Trump, but I am too tired to work it.


76 posted on 11/09/2012 9:51:16 PM PST by Vermont Lt (The dude abides.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Longbow1969

“Yup. 3rd party’s fail utterly in the United States. We hear this nonsense about forming new ones around election time every year and nothing is going to come of it. Our winner take all system with no possibility of coalition government is just not suited for 3rd party’s.”

Not discounting the validity of what you say, but to me it looks like the Pubbies will neither be winnin’ nor takin’ much at all if things keep going the way they’ve been going...


77 posted on 11/09/2012 10:00:13 PM PST by Road Glide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: who knows what evil?

They are right. A new Party must be considered. The GOP just isn’t very grand anymore. It must be rejected and a new 3rd Party started. Trump is right on this—I believe. BUT, this must be well thought out—not done with emotion or frustration—well planned and thought out. What are our options?
1. Take over an existing small party that has established itself. Such as the Constitution Party in New York. Or Ross Perot’s old Reform Party. Have lots and lots of folks join up and change it to meet our terms.
2. Try to take over the GOP—but I don’t think that can be done—even with the likes of Sarah Palin and others in the Tea Party.
3. Start a new Party —a Tea Party—but call it the Liberty Party —our symbol a Liberty tree with lanterns on it—and other symbols of the Revolution. Ever see the movie Johnny Tremain?
4. We could drop the whole party thing and start a Movement that would exist outside of party. A new Tea Party thing—only this time a bit edgy and—taking a page from the enemy—go face to face with the Liberals—The Sons of Liberty. Burn our enemies in effigy— publish an underground newspaper like Thomas Paine—We must become ‘The Resistance’ This would appeal to the young people. When ever we see Obama’s smiling face—paint a “V” over it.
5. Join radials who want to separate—states from the Union—session! raise the Stars and Bars or Bonnie Blue. Join parties that want a free Texas or Free Alaska. Like our friends in Quebec, we can use this leverage to get our message out. The Threat of Civil War might cause a crack down that will tarnish the Leftists in power. Pull away the mask of compassion from their evil faces.
These are but a few things that can be done. I bet you can think of other ways to resist.


78 posted on 11/10/2012 12:01:46 AM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek

A third Party must NOT try to run a president—Ross Perot proved this—We must start small—a few seats here , a few seats there. A state government here a state government there. It must be built up slowly from the grass roots up. We must take over towns and counties, school boards and municipal organizations—dog catchers to supervisors! Only after we have made inroads should a president run. And we should select a War Hero! Someone young, bright, an Alpha Male. Our stands should be clear—like Reagan— No abortions! (focus on Late Term abortions—no one likes them) Work not welfare etc... National service for all—not a draft so much as a year to 18 months to help out in National parks , in inner cities, and in other ways (military—if they want it). Any illegal—should be able to earn citizenship though service.


79 posted on 11/10/2012 12:09:40 AM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Yaelle
I agree with Herman!

I do as well. Matter of fact it is past time. The "R" Party has made it clear that it will not swing back to the right again no matter how bad they get beat down. They just keep going left more and more often. Its time conservatives start to cut them loose and move beyond them.

80 posted on 11/10/2012 1:13:54 AM PST by Ron H. (Democrats are without question the Welfare Party of the Future.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek

I agree as well.


81 posted on 11/10/2012 1:14:33 AM PST by Ron H. (Democrats are without question the Welfare Party of the Future.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Forward the Light Brigade
When ever we see Obama’s smiling face—paint a “V” over it.

I like that one...

82 posted on 11/10/2012 7:09:33 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: Forward the Light Brigade

I’m no Perot fan, but had he not flamed out and dropped out mid-way through the 92 campaign only to re-enter, I honestly believe he stood a strong chance to be a potential winner. Even after all that, he still got roughly 20% of the popular vote.


83 posted on 11/11/2012 5:50:08 AM PST by joesbucks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-83 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
GOP Club
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson