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SoCal Fires Live Thread 10/28
10/28/03 | Myself

Posted on 10/27/2003 9:17:40 PM PST by spectr17

SoCal Fires Live Thread 10/28


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: firestorm; forestfire; michaeldobbs; prayerlist; socalfires; wildfire
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To: Merovingian
per Geraldo:

"San Diego fire was one that was NOT arson"

I'm curious. How come these "accidental" fires never occur down in Baja Mexico?

701 posted on 10/28/2003 8:12:04 AM PST by Chief_Joe (From where the sun now sits, I will fight on -FOREVER!)
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To: The Mayor
My sister lives in Lake Forest, is she in danger??

I have not heard of any incidents in Lake Forest (Orange County).

702 posted on 10/28/2003 8:13:43 AM PST by Fitzcarraldo
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To: lainie
STRAWBERRY PEAK, CA AT&T SITE
(STPKCA01)
TD-2, TL, TM, GEP

http://users.shore.net/~mfoster/Strawberry_Peak.htm
703 posted on 10/28/2003 8:13:46 AM PST by maggief
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To: berkeleybeej; ArmstedFragg
I read from AP that some animals were evacuated from the Wild Animal Park. Do you have any further info? How close is the fire to that area?
As of yesterday afternoon, FF was pulling all the resources to stop the fire from spreading down to the Cedar fire. They evacuated the area around Wild Animal Park. ArmstedFragg knows better if they succeeded.
704 posted on 10/28/2003 8:14:16 AM PST by Toidylop
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To: The Mayor
Lake Forest is nowhere near anything burning right now.
705 posted on 10/28/2003 8:15:24 AM PST by dogbyte12
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To: Toidylop
I have heard that the Cedar and Valley Center fires were starting to drift north...relatives live in the lake henshaw area but i can't contact them because the phone lines are down...
706 posted on 10/28/2003 8:16:04 AM PST by Fitzcarraldo
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To: Fitzcarraldo
Lake Forest is on the California side of Lake Tahoe, next to the Nevada border. Nothing going on there.
707 posted on 10/28/2003 8:16:21 AM PST by dogbyte12
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To: oceanperch
Back for another day....wow...a little groggy this am. William Wallace is the real life hero who attempted to free Scotland from English rule. Robert the Bruce succeeded after the death of Wallace. Watch Braveheart, that will explain all. :)
708 posted on 10/28/2003 8:17:28 AM PST by Conservative4Ever (Wm. Wallace did not cry 'diversity' while being disemboweled.)
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To: lainie
Scanner ... ordering water scooper to cool edge at school.
709 posted on 10/28/2003 8:20:14 AM PST by maggief
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To: Fitzcarraldo
I have heard that the Cedar and Valley Center fires were starting to drift north...relatives live in the lake henshaw area but i can't contact them because the phone lines are down...
Yes, it's heading Lake Henshaw area. We just hope that the weather pattern hold and more tankers and FF resources coming in from out of the state. Prayers to them.
710 posted on 10/28/2003 8:20:26 AM PST by Toidylop
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To: Travis McGee
It's a very easy and safe mission, he says.

Having known folks who trained for that mission, it's not particularly easy or safe. External cargo missions over water are relatively easy and safe. Hauling external cargo over a wildfire, with visibility nil and extremely unpredictable air, is much more difficult, and the price tag of getting something wrong is a crash landing in the middle of a fire.

This is a training failure on the Navy's part--units based here in the Southwest should be 100% proficient in this from the get-go.

There's also a monetary angle (as there always is). Most of the firefighting aircraft are owned by private contractors.

They get more money for a big fire than for a little fire. So they have a perverse interest in generating large fires.

They have a lot of influence with the CDF (because they work for the governor). They argue that federal law requires that the state pay the military, and that it will cost a lot of money.

711 posted on 10/28/2003 8:20:35 AM PST by Poohbah ("Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons?" -- Major Vic Deakins, USAF)
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To: farmer18th
Are they purposely leaving that part of the fire out of their discussions to avoid panic?

was just wondering the exact same thing. The resident they were just interviewing on KTLA said they've made this stand at the H.S. many times in the past -- it'll be fine. It's the Daly Cyn (sp) that's the real potential problem.

712 posted on 10/28/2003 8:20:55 AM PST by lainie
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To: maggiefluffs
Okay I think I just saw that place in overhead chopper aerial shots on TV
713 posted on 10/28/2003 8:22:37 AM PST by lainie
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To: Chief_Joe
We were JUST asking the same question!

No knowledge of that area, DO they ever have big fires in that region?
714 posted on 10/28/2003 8:23:03 AM PST by Merovingian
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To: maggiefluffs
They cannot get in drops yet because of wind!

President Bush is now answering questions from the Rose Garden. President Bush said that all federal resources needed will be made available.

Media not asking questions about the SoCal fires, however!
715 posted on 10/28/2003 8:23:34 AM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Don't forget to Visit/donate at http://www.georgewbush.com)
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voluntary evacs now for Angeles oaks, Seven oaks and Big Bear

Old Fire per CDF
716 posted on 10/28/2003 8:24:06 AM PST by spectr17 (Veni, Vedi, Velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around)
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To: #3Fan
I'm sorry, but that was a pretty ignorant thing to say.
717 posted on 10/28/2003 8:25:49 AM PST by SandyInSeattle (One of Those Dreaded Federal Employees)
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To: PhiKapMom
They're thinking about using the water scooper for the school. (Scanner)
718 posted on 10/28/2003 8:27:25 AM PST by maggief
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To: PhiKapMom
Media not asking questions about the SoCal fires, however!
Sometime you just wonder!!! Do they know the magnitude and devastating of the fire to SoCAL? My relatives and friends are displaced all over the area. It's just so sad.
719 posted on 10/28/2003 8:27:27 AM PST by Toidylop
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btw that resident just on KTLA -- he had the typical voice swagger, saying I see no reason to leave, I'm staying til the bitter end, blah blah blah. I think he's an idiot. He said there's no reason to go until there are flames 100' from my home, then turned around and admitted if that were to happen, all would be lost, there's nothing that could be done. If there would be no way to save it, why stay? Esp knowing that his escape route would be choked off -- that's the real point.
720 posted on 10/28/2003 8:27:45 AM PST by lainie
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To: PhiKapMom
They cannot get in drops yet because of wind!

But the wind is fairly calm right now...they were dropping water yesterday...then there was a rumor of a tanker crash on the mountain...

721 posted on 10/28/2003 8:27:48 AM PST by Fitzcarraldo
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To: #3Fan
Wrong, wrong, wrong. These are conservative areas burning... the liberals are concentrated in San Francisco, Sacramento, and Los Angeles. Those population centers are the ones dragging everybody else along for the ride.

Go away.
722 posted on 10/28/2003 8:28:43 AM PST by SandyInSeattle (One of Those Dreaded Federal Employees)
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To: Fitzcarraldo
the wind isn't calm up in the Arrowhead area but it is for other fires
723 posted on 10/28/2003 8:28:44 AM PST by lainie
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To: Travis McGee
Will give the details that were given on KFI last night by the State Rep from Lakeside and the State Senator from that area. On Sunday afternoon Cong Hunter got in touch with General Myers, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and he was told to have the head of CDF call him at his home or the Governor and they would get the military involved including the USAF planes out of Colorado.

Cong Hunter passed this info with phone number to the head of CDF who then told Hunter he would have to think about it. As we know nothing happened.

These two State legislators are now going after Davis and his Administration for their total ineptness and then yesterday Davis was going around SoCal inferring the President was taking his time to sign the emergency declaration when he had already signed it.

Took the moronic cable news channels a long time to finally say Pres Bush signed the declaration and took until late in the afternoon before we found out that Arnold had visited firefighters and his wife, Maria, had visited the SB Shelter.

Then we heard from Cong Dreier that Arnold would be on his way to D.C. today to meet with federal officials including the Vice President. None of that was reported on cable news.
724 posted on 10/28/2003 8:29:01 AM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Don't forget to Visit/donate at http://www.georgewbush.com)
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To: Poohbah
I doubt it's harder than doing a cable landing on the back of a pitching destroyer in 30 foot seas and 30 knot winds.

Unlike the fixed wing aircraft tasked for fire missions, helos don't have to swoop into the canyons and pull up to clear the ridge. They just get over the fire and drop, even high over. The fire line is almost always visible from straight above, since the thick smoke is blowing away down wind.

How much does a water bucket cost to manufacture and store? It's criminal that these helicopter assets are sitting on the ground idle 15 miles from the fires.

725 posted on 10/28/2003 8:29:31 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: dogbyte12
I think she means Lake Forest, which used to be El Toro... in southern Orange County. Not in danger at all right now.
726 posted on 10/28/2003 8:30:27 AM PST by SandyInSeattle (One of Those Dreaded Federal Employees)
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To: Conservative4Ever
Good Morning! Someone said earlier that Angeles Oaks was being evacuated. Have you heard anything?
727 posted on 10/28/2003 8:30:59 AM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Don't forget to Visit/donate at http://www.georgewbush.com)
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air tanker dropping near Strawberry PEak commo tower

THey'red efending he repeaters at Strawberry PEak
728 posted on 10/28/2003 8:31:24 AM PST by spectr17 (Veni, Vedi, Velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around)
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To: spectr17
voluntary evacs now for Angeles oaks, Seven oaks and Big Bear

Wasn't Patriot4ever talking about the fire coming up around Mentone last night and it didn't seem to be a priority?
729 posted on 10/28/2003 8:31:40 AM PST by farmer18th
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To: maggiefluffs
Right now it looks like the backfires are working -- praying the winds keep blowing south!
730 posted on 10/28/2003 8:32:12 AM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Don't forget to Visit/donate at http://www.georgewbush.com)
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To: PhiKapMom
Ask your contacts why 100 Navy Seahawk helicopters are sitting idle on North Island, minutes from the fire? The Seahawk pilot I know is an instructor, he told me it's an EASY MISSION that all of his pilots can and will do if ordered.

Why are 100 Navy Seahawks sitting idle at North Island???????????

731 posted on 10/28/2003 8:33:10 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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cabins burning next to Strawberry Peak


KTLA CH 5
732 posted on 10/28/2003 8:34:01 AM PST by spectr17 (Veni, Vedi, Velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around)
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To: Fitzcarraldo
They cannot make plane drops into the fires according to KTLA but they are now dropping on repeater stations and the high school. Fixed wing aircraft is now dropping the fire retardent on the repeaters. One just flew in.
733 posted on 10/28/2003 8:35:33 AM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Don't forget to Visit/donate at http://www.georgewbush.com)
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To: PhiKapMom
just saw a fire retardant drop up near Cliffhanger
734 posted on 10/28/2003 8:36:03 AM PST by lainie
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To: farmer18th
Wasn't Patriot4ever talking about the fire coming up around Mentone last night and it didn't seem to be a priority?

With the wind shift last night the fire made a run down the mtn at us, Highland and Redlands but it layed down about midnight. Mentone also threatened.

735 posted on 10/28/2003 8:36:11 AM PST by spectr17 (Veni, Vedi, Velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around)
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To: lainie
In the early eighties I observed a helicopter rescue on the north face of San Gorgonio - the wind was gusting to 20 mph+ and the pilot had to set one skid on a rock to load the injured party. Because of the slope, the helicopter blade came within five feet of hitting.

I have a hard time believing these pilots can't negotiate drops in the current conditions.

Something else is going on here.

736 posted on 10/28/2003 8:36:25 AM PST by Fitzcarraldo
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To: Chief_Joe
I'm curious. How come these "accidental" fires never occur down in Baja Mexico?

My guess is that there are fires, but as the forests may be picked over for wood to be used as fuel in homes, etc., there is not enough of that dead undergrowth that really helps fires along?

737 posted on 10/28/2003 8:36:37 AM PST by Fury
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To: Travis McGee
Grey Davis hasn't asked for military assistance as far as I know. KFI had the two State Legislators on last night and as of about 9 p.m. cst, there had been no request from the State for military assistance. Although there have been a few AF planes used.
738 posted on 10/28/2003 8:36:58 AM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Don't forget to Visit/donate at http://www.georgewbush.com)
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AP, ups the official totals to 512,000 acres officially.
739 posted on 10/28/2003 8:37:00 AM PST by dogbyte12
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Tue - October 28, 2003
Updates since 8:32am (PDT).


Worse case scenario is here.
Backfires are being used on 18; so far, so good.
Here comes the air support; 1st priority is the Strawberry Peak Towers (communications).


- The first drops have started close to the water tank by Strawberry Peak.

- The winds WILL change to an onshore flow. I hope the air support can get to this stuff before they do change. Also, they are getting fuel at the Twin Peaks station.

- On channel 5 news they just said that Rimforest lost at least 6 or 7 homes, maybe more. Some of their Rim Forest pictures (8:20am) are great in illustrating the fight the firefighters put on last night at Rim Forest.
740 posted on 10/28/2003 8:37:30 AM PST by maggief
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Cajon repeater site being threatened now
741 posted on 10/28/2003 8:37:39 AM PST by spectr17 (Veni, Vedi, Velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around)
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To: Travis McGee
Certainly, we need to evolve a new strategy for dealing with coordinated arson-terrorist started fires, a strategy involving the IMMEDIATE use of every available helicopter capable of lifting a water bucket.

Or maybe something more effective than either helo bucket carriers or the Bombardier Canadair CL-415 *water bombers* that LA has leased from the Canadians.


742 posted on 10/28/2003 8:37:46 AM PST by archy (Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
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To: Fitzcarraldo
It was explained on KTLA that the wind is blowing to the Southwest and if they dropped where the fires are burning they would miss their targest because of the wind. Also dangerous to fly into the smoke in the mountain area so they are making drops of fire retardent on areas that are near the fire but not on fire so there is no problem with smoke.

That's the explanation given by the spokesman from SB Fire Department.
743 posted on 10/28/2003 8:38:45 AM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Don't forget to Visit/donate at http://www.georgewbush.com)
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To: PhiKapMom
they just panned the 180-degree panorama. How are they going to stop the fire altogether from heading north? I don't see how they can. The front is like, a dozen canyons in at least as many miles.
744 posted on 10/28/2003 8:38:54 AM PST by lainie
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To: Fitzcarraldo
I don't know enough about it to say. Maybe the fact that they're stretched so thin is a factor?
745 posted on 10/28/2003 8:40:15 AM PST by lainie
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To: nicmarlo
Like all the news lately they seem to cover stories after the fact.

Then again I just had a thought. Could it be possible that Freepers have been in touch so much and so long with breaking stories that we are all getting use to hearing it here first with updates that it just seems the news media is slow.
746 posted on 10/28/2003 8:40:42 AM PST by oceanperch (Humming "Singing in THe Rain")
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To: lainie
KFI -- there's a police artist drawing of a suspect now
747 posted on 10/28/2003 8:41:02 AM PST by lainie
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To: lainie
So far looks like HW 18 is still providing the fire break and with these drops of retardent into the repeater stations/high school, the break is holding. Just hope the winds stay blowing to othe Southwest although they did switch from South to the Southwest.

In Chatsworth they have been making steady fire attacks.

KTLA reporting hard to use choppers in the thin air of the mountains at Arrowhead -- reduces load and harder to maneuver.
748 posted on 10/28/2003 8:41:59 AM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII Mom -- Don't forget to Visit/donate at http://www.georgewbush.com)
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To: PhiKapMom
These guys can hit anything...a few days at the fire near Rancho Cucamonga stories pilots were making drops and were returning "with branches on their wings".
749 posted on 10/28/2003 8:42:25 AM PST by Fitzcarraldo
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Having flown helos into the local mtns here for years to work at the commo sites, it's tricky flying, lot's of wind and buffetting.

Pic is of a mountaintop worksite here in southern Californy called Little San Gorgonio Mountain, 9,000 ft high, and very interesting chopper landings in the winter.

One interesting landing with pilot Pete had the landing pad covered with an 8 foot high snowdrift. Pete says "Hold on", as we approached the landing pad and I'm like "Hold on hell". "We can shiskabob the skids into the snowbank", says Pete. We crash land into the snowdrift, the helo skids sticking out of the snowbank like a fork in a pickle. Silly me, I thought that fun ride was over until we had to leave.

The skids had frozen into the snowbank and Pete says "Hold on"again. Well, I've been on some purty hairy rides in choppers before, but when Pete went full juice, and starting rocking the chopper and then the chopper popped loose from the moutainside, the pucker factor rose quite rapidly. Pete still laughs about that one.

That's Pete in the pic. Some of you may remember the helo crash in Oak Glen in the mid 80s and the helo crash at the 7 Oaks dam a few years back. Pete was the pilot who saved the crew in both auto rotations down. One of the best helo pilots I've ever flown with.

750 posted on 10/28/2003 8:42:58 AM PST by spectr17 (Veni, Vedi, Velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around)
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