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The Irrational Atheist
WorldNetDaily ^
| 11/17/03
| Vox Day
Posted on 11/17/2003 6:02:20 AM PST by Tribune7
click here to read article
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This guy is one of WND's best.
1
posted on
11/17/2003 6:02:20 AM PST
by
Tribune7
To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; PatrickHenry; Right Wing Professor; general_re; VadeRetro
Here you go :-)
2
posted on
11/17/2003 6:03:22 AM PST
by
Tribune7
(It's not like he let his secretary drown in his car or something.)
To: Tribune7
Good article. Of course the athiests will deny every word of it.
3
posted on
11/17/2003 6:13:45 AM PST
by
Blood of Tyrants
(Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
Comment #4 Removed by Moderator
To: Tribune7
Quoting myself: "Only a fool or an intellectual could be an atheist". Human arrogance is boundless.
5
posted on
11/17/2003 6:17:18 AM PST
by
Phaedrus
To: Tribune7
This guy is one of WND's best. "Thank you Henny [Youngman]! You've never been funnier. And it's a damn shame!" -- Steve Allen
6
posted on
11/17/2003 6:56:03 AM PST
by
VadeRetro
To: Tribune7
Oh, puh-leeze. One could equally argue that modern Christianity is a "moral parasite" because secularism has forced Christians to give up religious persecution by taking away the power to engage in it.
7
posted on
11/17/2003 6:59:58 AM PST
by
steve-b
To: Phaedrus
"Quoting myself: "Only a fool or an intellectual could be an atheist". Human arrogance is boundless. " Right
And atheist is simply someone who disbelieves what you claim to be true without proof. So you insult him publicly and claim hes the arrogant" one. Nice
8
posted on
11/17/2003 7:00:34 AM PST
by
elfman2
To: Tribune7; pagliauomo; Phaedrus; VadeRetro; steve-b; elfman2
Religion is ... more than useful for a civilized society, though, it is a downright necessity. This is the basic assumption and working principle of such "civilized" societies as those found in Iran and Saudi Arabia, for example. It works, too.
This is not to say there are no atheists who ... are true to their godless convictions. Today, we call them sociopaths and suicides.
How many atheists these days have you heard of flying planes into buildings killing thousands of people, or strapping explosives to their bodies and blowing themselves and as many other people as they can to smitherines.
Suicides, huh? You mean like the Jim Jones cult, or the Heaven's Gate cult.
Where's this guy been living. The most famous suicides and sociopaths, and the most common, have all been highly religious.
VadeRetro, steve-b; elfman2, thanks for posting some sanity and relief from this "Quakers meeting."
Hank
To: Tribune7
This guy is one of WND's best. You'd never know it from this. One very good rule of thumb in debate, rhetoric, polemic, and what-have-you, is that you should be able to give an accurate rendering of your opponent's argument, such that he himself would consider your description of his position a fair description - to not do so is to argue dishonestly. By that very elementary test, this article flunks completely. And that's only the beginning, the basic error of form - then you can get into the factual errors. Socrates was not an atheist. Neither was Nietzsche. And so on.
10
posted on
11/17/2003 7:13:53 AM PST
by
general_re
(Me and my vortex, we got a real good thing....)
To: Hank Kerchief
If only more of them were like Quakers!
To: steve-b
Actually 99% of the problem is what is defined as Christianity. Although many tenets of Christianity are part of alot of religions they come up with their own little rules and heirarchies thus allowing them to fleece the flock.
Christianity is real simple and personal. It is your confession to God that you accept his Son Jesus Christ as full payment for your sins. Not too complicated and you certainly don't need any robed clowns to play middle man.The reason the French turned to atheism was a certain church allied with the state were torturing and murdering them in the name of Christianity.
These poor folks knew nothing else.
To: Tribune7
This is not to say there are no atheists who are rational, that there are none who are true to their godless convictions. Friedrich Nietzsche is the foremost example.... Nietzsche, who died insane, is perhaps not the best example....
13
posted on
11/17/2003 7:31:06 AM PST
by
r9etb
To: elfman2
"Right
And atheist is simply someone who disbelieves what you claim to be true without proof. So you insult him publicly and claim hes the arrogant" one. Nice
"As a Christian I agree that much of the article is flawed on logic. However I do think the conclusion has some merit. That most atheists do not live as though life is the accident that they claim it to be. However some do indeed live that way.
"The atheist is irrational because he has no other choice because the rational consequences of his non-belief are simply too terrible to bear."
I do think the Atheist is irrational, but not because he disbelieves what I claim to be true without proof. But I believe that God provides the Atheist with ample proof and is rejected by the Atheist. But I take it on faith that this occurs because 1) God has provided me sufficient proof and 2) I know God well enough to believe that He is serious when He says he desires nobody to perish.
God doesn't manifest His presence in such a way that His existence is obvious and incontrovertible to everyone. Doing so might leave you with little choice but to worship Him. Certainly it would be hard to argue that you chose to love God or obey Him when His alpowerful Holy presence is constantly around. But that does not mean that He doesn't provide ample proof on an individual basis.
14
posted on
11/17/2003 7:32:55 AM PST
by
DannyTN
To: general_re
One very good rule of thumb in debate...is that you...give...your opponent's argument, such that he himself would consider your description of his position...fair.
Exactly. While I read the Vox Day articles most of the time, this one was not convincing. Which is a shame, because I accept the basic point that valid ethics must have a basis in faith in a Supreme Being. (And I believe you can make a compelling case that Christianity is the best and most sound basis for that faith.)
However, the basis for the 'reason alone is a valid basis for morals' argument is not because Socrates says so. In this case Vox Day is just showing off his erudition, and that's arrogance, not rational discourse.
15
posted on
11/17/2003 7:34:25 AM PST
by
Gorjus
To: Hank Kerchief
Good points, but - officially atheist regimes in the last century deliberately killed over 100 million people.
Irrationality and murderousness are not necessarily limited to the religious mindset.
To: r9etb
Nietzsche, who died insane, is perhaps not the best example....
A few years after college graduation, I did a bit of reading in philosophy,
as my science degree didn't include a lot of traditional philosophy reading.
While a lot of what I read was interesting, the most illumination came from
one compendium of philosophy writings which included a couple pages of biography
on each philosopher discussed in the book.
It was eye-opening to find out how many either lived some pretty miserable lives
and/or came to no good end.
17
posted on
11/17/2003 7:36:28 AM PST
by
VOA
To: Tribune7
What a shame that Christianity is blamed for so much that is "un-Christ-like" - and not part of the Faith. There are radicals in every movement - to condemn Christianity for what extremist, untaught radicals do is like blaming Islam for UBL!
To: DannyTN
"I do think the Atheist is irrational, but not because he disbelieves what I claim to be true without proof. But I believe that God provides the Atheist with ample proof and is rejected by the Atheist" I think you should recognize the contradiction there. Proof is not subjective. Either Gods provable or not.
Im not able to invest the time here to rehash the evidence supporting or contradicting the Bible. But I hope to never be so arrogant and insulting as to publicly accuse all those that disagree with me of being irrational.
19
posted on
11/17/2003 8:11:44 AM PST
by
elfman2
To: Gorjus
I agree. I have no doubt that a serious and thoughtful case can be made, exactly as you say, which is why this particular thing is rather disappointing, since it's neither serious nor thoughtful. Maybe you should send a resume to WND - they've obviously got the wrong guy on staff ;)
20
posted on
11/17/2003 8:12:35 AM PST
by
general_re
(Me and my vortex, we got a real good thing....)
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