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The 2004 Hunt. Presidential candidates on guns.
NRO ^ | November 18, 2003, 9:11 a.m. | By John R. Lott Jr.

Posted on 11/18/2003 11:55:52 AM PST by .cnI redruM

Democratic presidential candidates have recently taken up a new calling: offering advice to hunters. Governor Howard Dean supports extending the assault-weapons ban next year "because I never met a hunter who needed an AK-47 to shoot a deer." Senator John Kerry offered, "When I go out there and hunt, I'm going out there with a 12-gauge shotgun, not an assault weapon."

Clearly what worries these senators is that people and not deer will be "hunted" with these guns. As Senator Carl Levin noted early this year, allowing the ban to expire will "inevitably lead to a rise in gun crimes." Ratcheting up the fear factor to a new level, Senator Charles Schumer claims the ban is one of "the most effective measures against terrorism that we have." New York Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy claims: "You want an assault weapon? Go join the Army."

The most-charitable interpretation is that the ban's proponents know nothing about guns. "Assault-weapon ban" conjures up images of machine guns used by the military, which are surely not very useful in hunting deer. Yet, the 1994 federal ban had nothing to do with machine guns, only semiautomatics, which fire one bullet per pull of the trigger. The firing mechanisms in semiautomatic and machine guns are completely different. The entire firing mechanism of a semiautomatic gun has to be gutted and replaced to turn it into a machine gun.

Functionally the banned semiautomatic guns are the same as other non-banned semiautomatic guns, firing the exact same bullets with the same rapidity and producing the exact same damage. The ban arbitrarily outlaws 19 different guns based upon either their name or cosmetic features, such as whether the gun could have a bayonet attached.

With the sniper trial now going in Virginia, the media understandably focuses on the so-called "sniper rifle." Yet, the .223- caliber Bushmaster rifle used in the sniper killings was neither a "sniper" rifle nor an "assault weapon." In fact, it is such a low-powered rifle that most states ban it even for deer hunting precisely because of its low power, too frequently wounding and not killing deer. Ironically, the much-maligned AK-47, only new semiautomatic versions of the gun were banned, uses a .30-caliber bullet that is actually well suited to hunting deer.

The law never had any effect on crime. Banning a few percent of semiautomatic guns when otherwise identical guns are available only changes the brand criminals use. But despite the apocalyptic claims, the law didn't even do that much. Even President Clinton, who signed an "assault-weapon ban" into law, complained in 1998 how easy it had been for gun manufacturers to continue selling the banned guns simply by changing the guns' names or by making the necessary cosmetic changes.

The banned guns were seldom used in the commission of crimes to begin with. A 1995 Clinton administration study found that fewer than one percent of state and federal inmates carried a "military-type" semiautomatic guns (a much broader set of guns than those banned by the law) for crimes they committed during early 1990s before the ban. A similar 1997 survey showed no reduction in this type of crime gun after the ban.

Only two studies have been conducted on the federal law's impact on crime, one of which also examined the state assault-weapons laws. One study was funded by the Clinton administration and examined just the first year the law was in effect. It concluded that the ban's "impact on gun violence has been uncertain."

The second study was done by me and is found in my book The Bias Against Guns. It examines the first four years of the federal law as well as the different state assault-weapon bans. Even after accounting for law enforcement, demographics, poverty, and other factors that affect crime, the laws did not reduce any type of violent crime. In fact, overall violent crime actually rose slightly, by 1.5 percent, but the impact was not statistically significant. The somewhat larger increase in murder rates was significant.

The only clear result of the state bans was to consistently reduce the number of gun shows by about 25 percent. Features such as bayonet mounts on guns may not mean much to criminals, but gun collectors sure seem to like them.

The bans have now been in effect for almost a decade, without any evidence of any benefits. Increased crime is not the biggest danger arising from not extending the law. Politicians who have claimed such dire consequence from these mislabeled "assault weapons" have put their reputations on the line. If the extension fails, a year after that voters will wonder what all the hysteria was about.

Fueled by false images of machine guns and sniper rifles, the debate next year is likely to be very emotional. Let's hope that the politicians at least learn what guns are being banned


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; 2ndamendment; bang; banglist; deanhypocrit; johnlott
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>>>>>>>>>>>>Howard Dean supports extending the assault-weapons ban next year "because I never met a hunter who needed an AK-47 to shoot a deer."

Principle-Powered Howard gets to Bush's right on guns. What a protector of the 2nd Amendment.

>>>>>Senator John Kerry offered, "When I go out there and hunt, I'm going out there with a 12-gauge shotgun, not an assault weapon."

John 'Wayne' Kerry, Great White Hunter of the Wild Frontier, has probably hunted no further for red meat than Outback Steakhouse.

What an utter load of pandering crap!!!!!!!!!!!

1 posted on 11/18/2003 11:55:54 AM PST by .cnI redruM
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To: .cnI redruM
It's been pretty obvious for quite awhile that our government is scared to death of an armed populace that has the capability to restore the liberties they have played so fast and loose with. All this talk of hunting and such is crap. I want my right to hold a gun to assure that our high and mighty have real a reason to do the right thing by the electorate and don't get too high and mighty. The people quoted in this article are just the sort who need to have that uppermost in their minds when they legislate on our behalf.
2 posted on 11/18/2003 12:10:29 PM PST by Lee Heggy (When marriage is outlawed only outlaws will have inlaws)
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To: .cnI redruM
It funny to think that the first court decision about guns control was a gangster that could not prove that his shotgun was for military purposes. Because of that he lost the case. Now you can't have a gun for military purposes, as per the second amendment. How in the world did that happen?
3 posted on 11/18/2003 12:11:49 PM PST by vpintheak (Our Liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain!)
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To: .cnI redruM
Dear Sen Kerry. If the terrorist decides to attack soft targets such as a sleeping suburban street in the middle of the night with automatic gunfire (see the movie Invasion USA starring Chuck Norris), you can confront them with a 12 GA shotgun or 3 shot bolt action rifle. I will grab my "assault rifle", and at the end of the shoot out, let's see who would be found dead on his lawn with an empty weapon in one hand and live rounds clutched in the other hand in desperate attempt to reload. You didn't learn anything in Vietnam, sir.






4 posted on 11/18/2003 12:11:58 PM PST by Fee
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To: .cnI redruM
With their hostility to gun owners, good luck to the Democrats on winning the South.
5 posted on 11/18/2003 12:15:39 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: .cnI redruM
"When I go out there and hunt, I'm going out there with a 12-gauge shotgun, not an assault weapon."

When you have a Mossberg 590, your 12 guage shotgun IS an assault rifle... heh eheh heh heheheh (evil laugh)

Amendment II: A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

does anyone see the word "hunt" in there???

6 posted on 11/18/2003 12:23:59 PM PST by bc2 (http://www.thinkforyourself.us)
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To: .cnI redruM
Who makes you feel safer, the Right or the Left?


7 posted on 11/18/2003 12:24:14 PM PST by JoJo Gunn (Help control the Leftist population - have them spayed or neutered )
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To: bc2
does anyone see the word "hunt" in there???

Only if the game is Al Quaeda and the bag limit does not exist.
8 posted on 11/18/2003 12:28:47 PM PST by .cnI redruM ('Bread and Circuses' ...Fun until you run out of dough.)
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To: goldstategop
With their hostility to gun owners ... winning the South.

Hmmm.... Candidate Bush promised to sign an Ugly Gun ban renewal, if presented with such. President Bush has not repudiated said promise.

If the Republican Party aparatchiks want this Southron to vote for Mr. Bush in November 2004, they had bloody well better make sure he doesn't have an opportunity to act on that promise. If an Ugly Gun ban renewal even progresses so far as to be voted on by a subcommittee, they haven't been doing their jobs.

9 posted on 11/18/2003 12:30:10 PM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: .cnI redruM; *bang_list
I was just about to go to NRO. Thanks for saving me the trouble.
10 posted on 11/18/2003 12:31:28 PM PST by neverdem (Say a prayer for New York both for it's lefty statism and the probability the city will be hit again)
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To: .cnI redruM
Did you forget to mention that President Bush also supports extending the ban?
11 posted on 11/18/2003 12:35:18 PM PST by caltrop
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To: ArrogantBustard
Classic bait and switch. Bush only promised to sign the gun ban because he knows it will never hit his desk. Gets a few soccer moms (aka sucker moms) and doesn't upset those of us who aren't afraid of the looks of a weapon.
12 posted on 11/18/2003 12:38:06 PM PST by mushroom (.)
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To: caltrop
I didn't forget. It just won't ever get near his desk, once the House votes it down.
13 posted on 11/18/2003 12:40:09 PM PST by .cnI redruM ('Bread and Circuses' ...Fun until you run out of dough.)
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To: mushroom
because he knows it will never hit his desk.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... It bloody well better "never hit his desk". That of course, is up to the leadership of the Congress. And to Mr. Bush himself, through back-channel arm twisting.

14 posted on 11/18/2003 12:43:03 PM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: .cnI redruM
Governor Howard Dean supports extending the assault-weapons ban next year "because I never met a hunter who needed an AK-47 to shoot a deer."

Mr. Dean, let me make this a clear as I can: The Second Amendment to the Constitution is not about sporting, and the targets implicit in its guarantee consist neither of paper nor venison.

15 posted on 11/18/2003 12:43:16 PM PST by LTCJ
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To: .cnI redruM
once the House votes it down.

If it gets that far somebody, some (sub)committee chairman, hasn't been doing his job.

16 posted on 11/18/2003 12:44:40 PM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: LTCJ
As Zell said of Hatred-Powered Howard; he's glib, but not very deep.
17 posted on 11/18/2003 12:45:37 PM PST by .cnI redruM ('Bread and Circuses' ...Fun until you run out of dough.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
That's true as well. Which committee would get that bill?
18 posted on 11/18/2003 12:46:16 PM PST by .cnI redruM ('Bread and Circuses' ...Fun until you run out of dough.)
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To: .cnI redruM
That's interesting. Are you then suggesting that, if Dean or Kerry were President the House would pass it and send it to him? If so, I'd have to differ. In a case where the President was a Democrat, the Republican controlled House (and its members) wouldn't be under the pressure of party discipline to support their Republican President, as they are today.
19 posted on 11/18/2003 12:47:34 PM PST by caltrop
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To: vpintheak
It funny to think that the first court decision about guns control was a gangster that could not prove that his shotgun was for military purposes. Because of that he lost the case. Now you can't have a gun for military purposes, as per the second amendment. How in the world did that happen?
_______________________________

Actually, he never even showed up to argue his case in front of the Supreme Court. The Court said that they would not take notice of the fact that a shotgun hjad a military purpose in the absence of any evidence. Had he not fled, he might have won.
20 posted on 11/18/2003 12:49:06 PM PST by Texas Federalist
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To: caltrop
Wrong. The election of a Democratic Pres. who would go on tv and make it an issue every night would significantly alter public opinion.

Also, if the Dems do well enough to get the White House away from an incumbant President, they will take the house by a good 20-30 seats as well.
21 posted on 11/18/2003 12:49:30 PM PST by .cnI redruM ('Bread and Circuses' ...Fun until you run out of dough.)
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To: caltrop
the last 10 years has led me to believe that Republicans in Congress do more to support a conservative agenda when they do not have the White House.

Maybe I am wrong but this is what I see at first glance.
22 posted on 11/18/2003 12:49:44 PM PST by bc2 (http://www.thinkforyourself.us)
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To: .cnI redruM
If memory serves, the 1994 Ugly Gun ban was excreted by the Committee on the Judiciary as part of an "omnibus" crime reduction bill.

The current chairman of this committee is one F. James Sensenbrenner, a Representative of Wisconsin.

23 posted on 11/18/2003 12:51:47 PM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: JoJo Gunn
Cool pic. The poster held by the jerk-off on the right is priceless.
24 posted on 11/18/2003 12:52:41 PM PST by neverdem (Say a prayer for New York both for it's lefty statism and the probability the city will be hit again)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Sensenbrenner needs to receive the email barrage constantly between now and then. A great tactical move would involve seperating the ban from the Omnibus legislation and getting it shot down on the floor. I'm guessing it would do well to get 150 votes without being attached to Federal Law Enforcement funding as a rider.
25 posted on 11/18/2003 12:54:20 PM PST by .cnI redruM ('Bread and Circuses' ...Fun until you run out of dough.)
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To: Texas Federalist
In point of fact, Miller was dead when his case reached the Supreme Court. The Supremes remanded it to the lower court for reconsideration, along with the "no judicial notice" business. Miller being dead, the lower court dropped the case.
26 posted on 11/18/2003 12:54:34 PM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: .cnI redruM
he's glib, but not very deep.

Then it would probably be lost on him if it were pointed out that, under a strict Constitutional test, tyrantical politicans would find it to their advantage to grow antlers?

27 posted on 11/18/2003 12:56:09 PM PST by LTCJ
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To: .cnI redruM
Senator John Kerry offered, "When I go out there and hunt, I'm going out there with a 12-gauge shotgun, not an assault weapon."

FrankenKerry believes that hunting is the only legitimate use for guns.

28 posted on 11/18/2003 12:56:48 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: .cnI redruM
A renewal bill would not have to be part of an "omnibus" bill. In fact, if it became such that too would be evidence that the Republican leadership isn't doing its job. They can't preven the 'Rats from introducing an Ugly Gun ban renewal; they can make sure that the bill goes precisely nowhere.
29 posted on 11/18/2003 12:57:38 PM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: .cnI redruM
Most Congressional districts have been drawn to ensure the incumbent goes back to Washington if he wants to. Only about 35 seats are likely to be truly in play next year, for example. The chance the Democrats will take over the House in 2004 is tiny. The Presidency is a different story, however. The Democrats could win the Presidency with the shift of very few votes and, in particular, if Nader decides to sit it out or doesn't pull the votes he did in 2000.
30 posted on 11/18/2003 12:58:06 PM PST by caltrop
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To: LTCJ
Only if bag limits on antlered a--holes pass a strict constitutional standard.
31 posted on 11/18/2003 12:58:56 PM PST by .cnI redruM ('Bread and Circuses' ...Fun until you run out of dough.)
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To: Mr. Mojo
I doubt Kerry has been out of the heating or air-conditioning longer than 1 hour for more than 20 years.
32 posted on 11/18/2003 1:00:15 PM PST by .cnI redruM ('Bread and Circuses' ...Fun until you run out of dough.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
SO The Commitee Chairman could count his votes and then release it when he knew it would die a bloody death. Gunned down by eager sharpshooters.
33 posted on 11/18/2003 1:02:14 PM PST by .cnI redruM ('Bread and Circuses' ...Fun until you run out of dough.)
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To: .cnI redruM
Ya think these dumacrats really believe the 2nd Amendment is meant only to allow us to hunt? Anyone who speaks of the 2nd in those terms is either a lier or very poorly educated in US history. This country doesn't want nor need another president who is a lier and/or doesn't know American history.
34 posted on 11/18/2003 1:03:00 PM PST by drypowder
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To: bc2
That Republicans in Congress seem neutered every time a Compassionate/Liberal/Rockefeller Republican wins the Presidency is becoming harder and harder to ignore. Here in Florida, I know a number of 2000 Bush voters who'll probably be voting for Dean in 2004 on that basis and Dean's A rating from the NRA.
35 posted on 11/18/2003 1:04:50 PM PST by caltrop
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To: drypowder
Yeah, but there are people who will swear up and down Howard Dean is here to guard the 2nd Amendment.
36 posted on 11/18/2003 1:05:26 PM PST by .cnI redruM ('Bread and Circuses' ...Fun until you run out of dough.)
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To: neverdem
That picture paints a thousand words, don't it?
37 posted on 11/18/2003 1:08:11 PM PST by JoJo Gunn (Help control the Leftist population - have them spayed or neutered )
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To: .cnI redruM
Clearly what worries these senators is that people and not deer will be "hunted" with these guns.

Let me show you what I believe truly "worries these senators", and why they are so persistent in attempting to deny law-abiding citizens the God-given right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed in the 2nd Amendment:


Hat-Trick

38 posted on 11/18/2003 1:16:28 PM PST by Hat-Trick (Do you trust a government that does not trust you with guns?)
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To: bc2; JoJo Gunn
Actually, SEN Kerry, with an extended magazine and pistol grip, this "12 gauge shotgun" is expressly PROHIBITED as an "Assault Weapon".

So, surely, you must mean that your $4000 Beretta double is the only acceptable hunting arm, for the ruling class only -of course.

39 posted on 11/18/2003 1:22:52 PM PST by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: .cnI redruM
which are surely not very useful in hunting deer

It's certainly possible to kill a deer with a select fire, .223 rifle.

40 posted on 11/18/2003 1:31:23 PM PST by cruiserman
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To: mushroom
Classic bait and switch. Bush only promised to sign the gun ban because he knows it will never hit his desk.

Lots of folks have written the same thing. Why not assume that he's speaking his mind?

41 posted on 11/18/2003 1:34:49 PM PST by cruiserman
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To: bc2
the last 10 years has led me to believe that Republicans in Congress do more to support a conservative agenda when they do not have the White House

Agreed. They are better at complaining than actual leadership.

42 posted on 11/18/2003 1:36:45 PM PST by cruiserman
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To: .cnI redruM
New York Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy claims: "You want an assault weapon? Go join the Army."

Didn't Heinrich Himmler say something similar to this? I believe it was something along the lines of, "If you want to own a gun, join the Waffen SS."

Mark

43 posted on 11/18/2003 1:44:58 PM PST by MarkL (Chiefs 9-1... #$&!@(*#$$%^&@@#!!!!!!)
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To: JoJo Gunn
Is that a Bennelli Super-90 Defender?

Mark
44 posted on 11/18/2003 1:48:10 PM PST by MarkL (Chiefs 9-1... #$&!@(*#$$%^&@@#!!!!!!)
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To: xsrdx
Yeah, but it would sure bring home the venisen, and we all know that's why there's a 2nd Amendment.
45 posted on 11/18/2003 1:49:06 PM PST by .cnI redruM ('Bread and Circuses' ...Fun until you run out of dough.)
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To: MarkL
Hitler used to brag about his gun control policies.
46 posted on 11/18/2003 1:50:30 PM PST by .cnI redruM ('Bread and Circuses' ...Fun until you run out of dough.)
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To: Mr. Mojo
FrankenKerry believes that hunting is the only legitimate use for guns.

But only during "voting season!"

I wonder just how many of the dwarves actually go hunting when there's no photo-op.

Mark

47 posted on 11/18/2003 1:51:01 PM PST by MarkL (Chiefs 9-1... #$&!@(*#$$%^&@@#!!!!!!)
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To: bc2
the last 10 years has led me to believe that Republicans in Congress do more to support a conservative agenda when they do not have the White House. Maybe I am wrong but this is what I see at first glance.

Good grief, what ever lead you to believe that? That you might be wrong, I mean?

48 posted on 11/18/2003 1:58:48 PM PST by LTCJ
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To: LTCJ
Governor Howard Dean supports extending the assault-weapons ban next year "because I never met a hunter who needed an AK-47 to shoot a deer."

SOooooo not true. The first time I went deer hunting I took my SKS which fires the EXACT SAME ROUND as an ak-47. I stood in the middle of a field and a 10 point buck walked out of the woods straight at me. The SKS dropped him in one shot.

I'd take an AK hunting anyday.
49 posted on 11/18/2003 2:01:01 PM PST by Sabretooth (I'm not SabERtooth, Im SabREtooth.)
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To: mushroom
And chances are the ones who are claiming they won't vote for him didn't in the first place since he said it BEFORE the election.

You're right. It's because of millions of voluteers who knew the ones they worked for in the 2002 elections would be the ones who would vote against the AWB.
50 posted on 11/18/2003 2:01:01 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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