Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates)

Various | December 4, 2003 | sweetliberty

[sweetliberty]

(Thread 11) Link back to thread 10 (Nov. 24-30)

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Contained in Thread 10:

Who can be a guardian, 1993 letter from Bob Schindler to Michael Schiavo, Palm beach Post editorial and FReeper response, T'wit's song about Schiavo and Felos, transcript of Lee Webb's (CBN) interview with Kate Adamson, partial timeline of Terri's case, the story of Martin and Anne Shapiro and the report on Terri's birthday party,

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Click on pic for Terri's website

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This thread serves as a place for posting all new general information and references, along with links following Terri's case, plus information on cable news and talk radio shows dealing with the issue, court cases and press releases. This is also the place to post contact information, prayers and general discussion.

If you have something that qualifies as BREAKING NEWS or FRONT PAGE NEWS, please post it on a separate thread in that category in order to give it maximum exposure and then post a link to the article/thread here so that it will be included in the next update of links. Also, if you post links to articles from original sources and there is also a thread on FR, please link to the FR thread. Many original links become corrupt over time and we want to be able to access the information at will.

You will notice that this thread is not specifically dated. That is because we are just going to keep this one going until we have need of another one.

A reminder: please do not post personal information on the public forum. We have lots of folks on scene down in Florida and we don't want them having any problems with the death squad.

INDEX OF TERRI THREADS ON FR

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Latest threads on Terri's Case:

As Terri Schiavo turns 40 next week, her loved ones fight for her life

Suspicious Circumstances, the Strange Case of Terri Schiavo

Schiavo asks Pinellas judge to rule without trial

Michael Schiavo tries to block Gov. Bush

Michael Schiavo Again Seeks to Block New Information About Terri

Why Was Terri Denied Holy Communion?

Terri Schiavo's 40th birthday Wednesday

Florida's Bush gets report on Schiavo

Participate in Terri Schiavo's Birthday, December 3, With prayer, Mass Intentions, Cards and Notes

FR Birthday Card: Greetings, Prayers for Terri Schindler-Schiavo

New Guardian Urged for Terri Schiavo, More Evaluation of Her Condition Needed

The Guardian Speaks: Terri Schiavo's guardian files his report; there's bad news and good news.

Terri Schiavo's Family Celebrates Her 40th Birthday, Hundreds Send Cards

Changes Proposed In Right-To-Die Laws - Your help is needed NOW in Florida!

The Case of Terri Schiavo: The Human Rorschach Test

[sweetliberty]

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"Put my tears in Your bottle. Are {they} not in Your book? Then my enemies will turn back in the day when I call; This I know, that God is for me. In God, {whose} word I praise, In the LORD, {whose} word I praise, In God I have put my trust, I shall not be afraid. What can man do to me?" (Ps. 56: 8b-11)

[sweetliberty]

Terri's Army ping!

If you want on or off of this ping list, please let me know.

[windchime]

Thanks for the ping, sweetliberty!

[Saundra Duffy]

Another day of life for Terri, now officially 40 years young. I wonder how the HINO celebrated her birthday. Probably took his new family out for a nice meal at a nice restaurant. I don't understand how he can sleep at night. Won't even allow Terri to have flowers in her room. I can't understand how a hospice can participate in such inhumane treatment of a fellow human being. Terri has been a true inspiration to so many! She is actually a hero. She has fought valiantly for her life.

[Saundra Duffy]

Reporting. Yes, Ma'm! Ready for marching orders. Defending Terri's right to life and the American way.

[Dante3]

Michael removed the feeding tubes for both of his parents and felt good about it in his own words.

How could anyone declare that he is a good husband? He won't allow her even any flowers or religious objects. What a sadistic monster!

[TaxRelief]

Taxrelief reporting to duty, Ma'am! Permission to post new Article, Ma'am!

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Ethics committees help with tough choices

A group process can resolve disputes and ease family members' anxiety over refusing or withdrawing care.

By Andis Robeznieks, AMNews staff. Dec. 1, 2003.
The Newspaper for American Physicians

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The case of Terri Schiavo, the Florida woman who has been in a "persistent vegetative state" since her brain was deprived of oxygen during a heart attack 13 years ago, has ignited a very public debate over who decides the course of a patient's medical treatment when the patient can't make that decision herself.

Although most disputes rarely reach the tumultuousness of the Schiavo case, physicians are often called upon to mediate disagreements over an incapacitated family member's medical care. When this happens, some experts agree that convening an ethics committee offers the best hope for consensus building.

"Until you really have a patient or a case that needs the service of an ethics committee, you don't recognize the value they bring," said Thomas A. Kintanar, MD, a Fort Wayne, Ind., family physician and hospice director.

"An ethics committee can help ensure that the decisions made are the best that can be made medically and that can bring the family peace," he said.

A member of the American Academy of Family Physicians Board of Directors, Dr. Kintanar said he was once in a situation similar to the Schiavo case after the decision was made to withdraw the feeding tube of a 23-year-old developmentally disabled woman with microcephaly as a condition of placing her in hospice care. It was a decision that ignited the community and divided the family.

"There was a lynch mob out to get me," Dr. Kintanar said. "She was a beautiful individual, but she was nonresponsive and declining."

Shared responsibility

He said an ethics committee was convened consisting of family members, doctors, nurses, clergy, a volunteer community representative and an expert in philosophy and ethics.

"Everyone was invited to state their opinions," Dr. Kintanar said. "It was discussed, debated and dissected. Everyone who had any relationship with the patient would have a part in the final decision."

The last people to speak were the patient's parents, who had power of attorney and were leaning against further use of the feeding tube, Dr. Kintanar recalled.

They said the patient's brother had gone through the same situation, and they didn't see much benefit in repeating the experience.

"There wasn't a dry eye in that room when they shared their story," he said. "The experience itself was extremely gratifying because we had a community coalesce to find common ground. It's a beautiful story compared to what transpired in Florida."

Dr. Kintanar said physicians on ethics committees should be realistic when addressing a patient's medical condition, but they should never take away a family's hope. They should help guide decisions but not make them. His analogy is that he is the navigator, but the family captains the ship.

An ethics committee also can take away some of the burden from individuals who otherwise would be left to make these decisions on their own, which often leads to second-guessing and guilt that can last long after a decision is made.

The more the choices are made as group decisions, the less likely it is for individuals to develop that sense of guilt, said Michael Goldrich, MD, chair of the AMA's Council on Ethical and Judicial Affairs and a Highland Park, N.J.-based otolaryngologist.

A variation on this sense of guilt was expressed by Florida Senate President James King, who remarked after the state Legislature passed a bill giving Gov. Jeb Bush the power to reconnect Terri Schiavo's feeding tube: "I keep thinking, 'What if Terri didn't want this done at all?' "

Sen. King sponsored Florida's 1988 Death With Dignity living-will law that allows terminally ill patients to refuse artificial life support or feeding tubes, but that law does not apply to Schiavo because she does not have a living will. Even if she did, questions could remain, because she is not, by definition, terminally ill.

Her case has drawn the nation's attention to the question of who should make decisions in these cases, because her husband and her parents cannot agree on whether to withdraw her feeding tube.

Courts, Legislature weigh in

The courts agreed with the husband and called for feeding to be stopped, but then the Legislature and Gov. Bush sided with the parents and ordered feeding to be reinstated.

"It's almost become a Greek tragedy with deus ex machina and Jeb Bush coming down from the ceiling," said Myles Sheehan, MD, associate professor of medicine and geriatrics at Loyola University Chicago's Stritch School of Medicine.

Dr. Sheehan, a Jesuit priest, said it is important to keep in mind the specifics of each case, not comparing it to any others. He is frequently involved in feeding-tube decisions but, unlike Terri Schiavo, his patients are mostly older people in the end stage of terminal illness.

"There is a presumption in favor of feeding and hydration, but there are situations where it's a really bad idea," Dr. Sheehan said, adding that comparing someone who is terminally ill to someone like Terri Schiavo may not be the right thing to do.

"Although they both involve feeding-tube decisions, linking acute tragedies to chronic illness can lead to making mistakes in medical decisions," he said.

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Taxrelief, out Ma'am!

[viaveritasvita]

Hello to all of Terri's friends. Just wanted y'all to know that I appreciate the pings and I'm still tracking! Thanks for keeping the army updated, sweet. If y'all eventually go to periodic updates (whether via FReepmail or thread) rather than daily threads, keep me on the distribution list.

I was overjoyed to hear that the GAL is turning out okay and has recommended a guardian other than the HINO and I think I read that he wants swallowing eval and therapy. Terri will get her chance or we are not true FReepers! hehehe.

My prayers are with Terri and her family.

May God richly bless y'all!

<><

[sweetliberty]

"has been in a "persistent vegetative state" since her brain was deprived of oxygen during a heart attack 13 years ago"

They're still perpetuating the lies, I see.

[sweetliberty]

"How could anyone declare that he is a good husband?"

Because many of these people have bought into the lie that it is the "merciful" and "kind" thing to do to end the suffering of someone whom they are convinced, at least by their own definitions, has no quality of life.

[sweetliberty]

"that law does not apply to Schiavo because she does not have a living will. Even if she did, questions could remain, because she is not, by definition, terminally ill."

[Budge]

Beautiful opening, sl.

[sweetliberty]

Here's another article that nickcarraway posted.

A wise voice pierces bitter chaos of the Schiavo case

[pollywog]

Amen. What a precious passage of scripture to hold onto. I love your comforting scene also. Thanks sweetliberty.

[sweetliberty]

That picture is of the Colorado River just before sundown in No Name, Colorado on the Continental Divide, near Glenwood Springs. It's a great camping area.

[nicmarlo]

Because many of these people have bought into the lie that it is the "merciful" and "kind" thing to do to end the suffering of someone whom they are convinced, at least by their own definitions, has no quality of life.

They are the children of the Father of Lies.

[pollywog]

I would love to be there right now....resting quietly by that river!! I don't know why but it looks very familar.hmmmmm

[sweetliberty]

If you were there right now you'd probably be freezing your butt off! That picture was taken in the summer.

[STARWISE]

I have sent the following email to all the members of the Florida legislature, and sent a copy to the Jacksonville Times Union, Sen. King's home area newspaper.

I urge you FL Freepers to do the same.

*******

Subject: Right to food and water

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Florida Legislature,

You have been elected to represent the wishes of your Florida constituents. You create the laws that bind and guide the residents of this State.

Florida is but one state in this union, yet our derivation in this most wonderful and stunning experiment called a Republic, the United State of America, should always be guided by the precepts and values of our brave and selfless Founding Fathers, who gave so much that we may have this almost perfect entity in the world ... a place deigned by them to be of free men and women, abiding by strong moral and yes .. religious .. values, deemed lovingly given to us by our Creator.

The denial of the very basic essential needs of human beings (or animals, for that matter) of food and water is akin to murder.

Food and water ARE NOT life support.

Food and water ARE NOT extraordinary means.

Food and water are the LEAST that any human being, whether disabled or not, should be able to count on ... most assuredly from their governing elected officials, who have been charged with protecting their rights .... the biggest and most essential of which is LIFE itself.

You would shudder at the thought OR the act of a convicted murderer being purposely starved and dehydrated as his punishment; you would cringe at the thought OR the act of a domestic pet being purposely starved or dehydrated.

And, rightly so.

How, then, can you not grant to your fellow citizens of Florida the essential right to the minimal sustenance of food and water, especially to someone who is currently disabled?

I urge you to be the leaders you were elected to be, and preciously guard the right of us all to the most basic need for survival .. food and water.

Your actions are being observed very closely, and there is a renewed and reinvigorated citizenry that is sick and tired of the games you and all politicians play .. the backslapping and and backroom trading in which you all participate for your own edification .. and the paltry attention that is paid to doing what's right, being FOR the good of your own state, and NOT for your own or your party's interests. Please know that you all will be held accountable.

The people of California were the first in a long time to tire of the games, and I'm certain they won't be the last in this decade.

Senator King, if you, in the responsible position of Senate Majority Leader, opt to put your stock in your image or you allow your ego to interfere with your sworn duty to your State to be a staunch advocate of protection, and you DON'T allow Sen. Stephen Wise's bill to come up for discussion and a vote, please know that we won't forget. We're passed that. If you can't muster the barest level of integrity in this issue, I suggest you consider having the decency to leave your position.

Timeliness is critical ... people's very lives hang in the balance. XXX

[Micavaga]

A friend of mine posted this over on the Yahoo board we post on:

Florida:
Judge Greer
Richard Pearse (GAL)
Judge Lazzara

Stetson:
John Pecarek (1st GAL)
Daniel J Herman (His current partner)
Jay Wolfson (Current GAL)
Judge Demers
Judge Baird
Judge Quesada
Judge Caddell

Sorry, if I may have mixed a name, with the wrong University. Eyes are blurry. 10 Judges or individuals who are directly connected to Terri's case. Must be a coincidence. IMHO

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We're trying to get the dates of their attendence down now, too.

[sweetliberty]

Good letter Star. Thanks for sharing.

[TigersEye]

That is excellent! Very well said.

[nickcarraway]

Proposal Would Help Terri, Make it Difficult to Remove Feeding Tubes

[sarasmom]

Good job.

I also think we citizens need to direct those powers of controll over the judicial branch that we do still have.
Vote against retention of every judge, everytime the opportunity presents itself.This needs to be done for at least three election cycles.
Is every judge corrupt? No.
Is the current legal system corrupted? Yes.
We have to assume our own duty to correct it.We are the enablers of our own government!
Dont attempt to avoid jury duty merely because it is "inconvenient".
The true meaning of our system of government re checks and balances, also includes the voting power of the citizens.
Use it.
Purge the legal system to the extent we can, everywhere.

[wisconsinconservative]

ping to self for later

[STARWISE]

Absolutely!!!! I asked about a month ago to get the names listed of liberal judges up for re-election so I can burn them into my brain. We will be armed well this time ... that's a certainty.

[T'wit]

>> A wise voice pierces bitter chaos of the Schiavo case

A lying voice twists the facts again.

[Shortstop7]

"has been in a "persistent vegetative state" since her brain was deprived of oxygen during a heart attack 13 years ago"

They're still perpetuating the lies, I see.

Just disgusting, isn't it? Thanks for the ping!

[JulieRNR21]

I just wrote in support of Wise's Bill to Sen. King & the entire FL Senate!

Urge others to do so ASAP.

[pc93]

See http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1032484/posts?page=237#237

[sarasmom]

It is impossible to meaningfully "judge" the judges, except in the most aggregious cases of incompetance.The only frame of reference are groups of other lawyers, with vested interests in maintaining a corrupt system.
Not exactly a respected, neutral, trustworthy group of people to base our votes on.
Vote no, on all of them.
Force the legal system to deal with Law, truth, and justice as inseparable concepts.

[Future Useless Eater]

Friends of Terri - be sure to read terrasol's post on the previous daily thread at post 431.

The former PVS patient who was almost killed, but later recovered, Rus Cooper-Dowda, is being FIRED for speaking favorably of Terri outside of a work setting, and on her own time!

... a MUST read!

Then don't forget to freep our big guns at FoxNews!

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Here's another good re-read from earlier this year...
Rus Cooper-Dowda's reporting of a VERY BIASED court hearing to determine Terri's condition...
here's a sample...

The family attorney explained that the lower court judge used a scorecard for response that stacked the deck no matter how Terri responded. If she always responded -- it was just primitive brain stem activity. If she randomly responded -- it was not repetitive enough. If it wasn't as fast as the demander wanted -- then, hey, she was "too" disabled.

About this time the judge asked for an assurance that Terri could be restored by treatment before treatment was tried. He wanted to know the probability of function restoration for Terri the way people want guaranteed winning odds from their bookies before they bet any money on the Superbowl.

Ms. Anderson gently pointed out that medicine and life didn't work that way. She asked what harm there would be in a trial period of full therapies before deciding such therapies wouldn't work.

...you'll never believe the judges reply!...

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      "Where there's life, there's hope."
      -Terri Schiavo ( arguing with her best friend Diane Meyer ) angrily PROMOTING LIFE FOR the comatose
-Kate Adamson ( former vegetative patient nearly starved to death ) "Its VERY painful... Its SHEER torture!"
-Michael Schiavo (teaching Terri she can NEVER DIVORCE him) minutes before her 'collapse'
-Michael's 1993 girlfriend ("he can be the most INCREDIBLY MEAN person!")
-link to latest TV coverage/interviews           Contact FoxNews

[Future Useless Eater]

Contact Info:

Hannity@foxnews.com - Hannity & Colmes - Sean Hannity

Ontherecord@foxnews.com -On the Record with Greta - Greta Van Susteren

Atlarge@foxnews.com - At Large with Geraldo Rivera

Speakout@foxnews.com general FoxNews forum - Thank them for having the best Terri Schiavo coverage of any news channel!

Oreilly@foxnews.com - The O'Reilly Factor - Bill O'Reilly
(Bill used to parrot CNN with drivel from the husband)
(he's 'possibly' a little more 'pro-Terri' now?-)

[Future Useless Eater]

Post 1 links to the story of Martin and Anne Shapiro.

BUT BEWARE all freepers, THAT story is almost CERTAINLY a cruel HOAX designed to ridicule Terri and Dr.Hammesfahr!

See post 378 /other thread

[isrul]

I don't know whether it's a hoax but the author (Ron Laytner) first wrote about her in 1998. Google his name and you can find it. The page hasn't been updated since 1999.

[nicmarlo]

Update, Pinellas County Courthouse filings (notice another Motion for Protective Order has been filed by Felos....this is most likely in response to Bush's "Request for Production" (I assume, of documents...perhaps medical records, and, perhaps, other information):

Uniform Case	Pinellas Case	Section	Case Type	Type
522003CA008212XXCICI	03008212CI	020	DECLARATORY	CI
Style:	SCHIAVO MICHAEL
vs.	BUSH JEB
Jury Trial	STIP	NOTH	Reason	Type Disp.
		Y
Filling Date	Appeal Date	Judg. Date	Reop Date	Docket Date
10/21/03	11/14/03
Case/Cat
DECLARATORY JUDGMENT

 

10 Docket Entries, 12/04/03 to 12/02/03

Pages	Date	P/D	Docket Entry	Ver
	12/04/03	PLAINTIFF	MOTION TO STRIKE 120203	F
	12/04/03	PLAINTIFF	MANAGEMENT CONF & MOTION FOR PROTECTIVE ORDER-	N
	12/04/03	PLAINTIFF	TRANSCRIPTION OF PROCEEDINGS HEARING ON ORDER SETTING CASE	N
	12/03/03	DEFENDANT	STIPULATION EXHIBIT 1/2	F
	12/02/03	DEFENDANT	BY JEB BUSH	F
	12/02/03	DEFENDANT	REQUEST FOR PRODUCTION TO PLTF	N
	12/02/03	DEFENDANT	BY JEB BUSH	F
	12/02/03	DEFENDANT	NOTICE OF SERVICE OF INTERROGATORIES TO PLTF	N
	12/02/03	DEFENDANT	HOSPICE OF THE FLORIDA SUNCOAST 120103	F
	12/02/03	DEFENDANT	NOTICE OF PRODUCTION OF NON-PARTY OF	N

NOTH	Notice of Hearing
STIP	Stipulation
Ver	Verified: F=Filed, N=Not Filed/Notice. There is no case file document associated with a notice.

[nicmarlo]

Jeb Bush also served upon Felos "interrogatories" (interrogatories are questions. The Defendant always has the right to ask the plaintiff specific questions; they are limited in number, and the number may vary according to the state. In Colorado, I believe the number was 50, but I have forgotten). Felos may not answer them all....he may claim that they "are not likely to lead to admissible evidence." Then Bush would have to file a Motion to Compel, asking the Judge to force Felos to have HINO answer them....the judge makes the decision as to whether or not HINO would have to answer a particular question.

Bush also appears to have subpoenaed records from the Sun Coast hospice....Felos may have issued the Motion for Protective Order for that, as well, saying that they shouldn't have to supply any documentation to Bush, for the same reason "not likely to lead to admissible evidence." Another Motion to Compel might follow that, too, and then Felos' objection to it....which then puts the judge back into deciding if evidence must be given to Bush.

As you can see, Greer can do many things in this case to help Felos. And Greer is more likely than not to make sure that anything he does will be to help out Felos.....the other thing is: things that are within Greer's "discretion" cannot be appealed.

The only thing that Bush can appeal concerning Greer is if Greer errs on "matters of law"......otherwise, it's all "discretionary." We already know what Greer's discretion is.

[msmagoo]

Now that is REALLY Good news! Felos and HINO, your time is gonna come! :)

[KDubRN]

Outstanding letter. Glad you addressed King personally

[sweetliberty]

Sounds to me more like the fix is in if Bush can't get rid of Greer and Baird.

[msmagoo]

Can't Bush refile his motion for Baird to remove himself for bias if Baird's rulings seem overly protective of Felos and Greer? Bush has already expressed concern that there is a conflict of interest, and is well aware that Greer has skirted the issue of HINO's multiple children out of wedlock. Wesley J. Smith called Schiavo's new family the "bull elephant in the living room", that no one wants to acknowledge.

Of course that is relevent, as is the question of who has paid Terri's medical bills, or have they been paid, and if not, why not, and why is she in a hospice for "terminally ill" patients when she is not terminally ill, and why has the hospice been sued for maltreatment of patients, etc. etc.

Because this is a constitutional challenge, and the FL Supreme Court having ruled that parties to a constitutional challenge cannot waive an evidentiary hearing, because the record left is insufficient; Bush should be allowed to ascertain what the facts ARE in order to mount a well-crafted defense.

[windchime]

Thanks for the ping, sweetliberty!

[Dante3]

I find Terri's case a true horror story: A husband who might have tried to kill her, who does his best to torment her yet he is designated as her guardian. The judges making decisions straight out of the Twilight Zone. Michael goes on to remove the feeding tubes of his parents, and the media gives a pass to his outrageous lies. And Felos, a character out of nightmares.

I read that Senator Lieberman supports Terri. I wish he would speak out more.

What is the Catholic Church doing? This case is full of religious discrimination. Has the Greek Orthodox Church to which Felos belongs, spoken out?

[FR_addict]

Excellent Job!

[wildandcrazyrussian]

I deny quote vehemently that Felos is Greek Orthodox. He was raised in it as a child, but obviously has openly renounced any association with any recognized form of Christianity. He could be characterized religiously as a radical New-Ager since he gives speeches in all manner of those kinds of "religious" groups around Tampa Bay. A recent interview and profile of him was printed in the St. Petersburg Times and was posted here several times, giving full details.

[wildandcrazyrussian]

Thanks for all your productive research on the legal aspects of this whole horror story. Those of us hundreds of miles of away are just as interested but can't just drive over. Are you (or other researchers) accumulating any bills for access to such material?

[FR_addict]

Thank you for the ping. I somehow missed this important post the first time through. Maybe the ADA enforcement arm needs to get involved with this man's case.

[floriduh voter]

Sweet Liberty, where do you want me to put my Birthday Party Report? Please ping me there... I was at the Party and I'm fine, there's just been a delay in my report. fregards, FV

[Dante3]

I'm sure you are right. Felos listed himself as Greek Orthodox in the 7th and 11th editions of Who's Who in American Law -- no doubt for self serving reasons.

[nickcarraway]

Terri Schiavo's Family Finds Birthday Cards Taken Down (Includes pictures of the party)