Think Canada's the Place to Be? Think Again (A Canadian expat explains)

The Seattle Times ^ | December 12, 2003 | Jennifer Meeks

[MAGEE]

I have lived and worked in both countries. At the present time I dislike what Canadians have become however, and prefer to remain in the United States, a land which I find much more forgiving and realistic than the "superior" Canadians.

Canadians seem to identify themselves as I have said so many times as NOT AMERICAN, and therefore have not only shed their quasi British, Francophile identities (well some have), but all things relating to the North American continent which may identify them as Yankee Doodles. What a sad commentary. To NOT BE SOMETHING IN ORDER TO 'BE'.

It is a difficult statement for me to make as I hoped to be able to maintain an equal feeling of belonging to both countries, but it is not possible these days.

People must find what they wish in life, being offered by both countries. We will all go where we experience the most comfort in lifestyle and ideological preference.

As for the author of the article in Seattle, I think she is having a bit of a honeymoon "waiting for her Pink (Green) Card" and wonder how she was able to move and find work in Seattle when she was not officially an "Alien".

I was not allowed to work until that card was firmly in my wallet. Perhaps had I thought it would "speed things up", I too, would have created a glowing testimony of instant gratification for my newly adopted land to publish in my local paper. Somehow I find her a tad manipulative.

[MAGEE]

An addendum - I just read the author of this piece left Canada SIX YEARS AGO???? C'mon no alien card takes that long. No wonder she is knocking herself out. They must have been residing in Seattle illegally and have since applied for permanent residence.....unless they are mixing up Green Card for Citizenship..... that would make more sense.

[headsonpikes]

I guess it's not always the 'best and brightest' who flee Canuckistan!

[Dunedain]

It can be uncomfortable being between these 2 worlds. Indeed that is what it means to be Canadians. Canadians have a massive inferiority complex that causes them to discuss themselves in terms of not being like Americans. That’s it these days. That’s the best we can do.

But in the US I also come across this extreme attitude that America can never do wrong. I like America but that doesn’t mean America doesn’t get it wrong from time to time. “America’s great because it’s America” is not really constructive enough. Every society needs to be self critical to make sure it sticks to its prime values.

I use to see America as champion of capitalism. After all it fought the Cold War. But I find many Americans are opposed to capitalistic ideals or really have forgotten what it is.
Not just the annoying and large liberal left. But the protectionists who think they are helping the American people (well the ones who aren’t the frauds that damn well know protectionism lines to pockets of those producers protected by the state).

[Skywalk]

You won't be on this forum much longer. I checked your posts. Let's see, you're anti-gun, anti-American and accuse us of bombing people because "things aren't our way."

Disagreeing is one thing, being a complete and utter moron with no logical or factual basis(as if Canadians COULD do any of these things with a small population and sissified mindset) for his views will earn you banishment.

Good luck stewing in your socialist juices.

[Snowyman]

Canadians have a massive inferiority complex that causes them to discuss themselves in terms of not being like Americans

Bullshit.

[MAGEE]

Every country has its flaws, known best by those who have an interest in their country and its government, and how it treats is people, and its partners around the world in trade and commerce, plus its humanitarian aid given freely.
When one is embroiled in extreme comparatives with another one will always compare the "flawed self" to the "obnoxious other". It is a no-win situation.

Each country must be weighed on its own merits and its own demerits, and a comparison between the country of Canada and the country of the United States is an exercise of waste unless one seeks only to insult the offending other.

There is no comparison, any more than two cousins could be twins. There is a 4,000 mile of friendship historically, but I see the desire to wall it up on both sides now. Originally, it was the Canadian side who disliked the Americans after George Bush took over, but long before that, (and they won't admit it), it started with VietNam and the draft dodgers. As Americans now realize Canadians are "not the friends to the north" they once were, they are becoming more defensive as well to the point of outright dislike. It's ok, the Canadians have hated the Americans for a number of years, but are now admitting it up front.

For me it is as if my two parents are getting a divorce and I can do nothing about it.

Alternatively, there are wonderful things about both countries, but why should the "characteristics" of one country be "wrong" in the eyes of another???

If Americans are loud, noisy, roiling, arrogant, or any other lusty descriptive, is the opposite true of Canadians?Are Canadians quiet, settled, subservient? I don't believe that is true. So what makes Americans wrong and Canadians right???? Perception of what we believe the "other" is like. Insecurity does funny things to one's perception of reality. Being put on the defensive is another thing which messes up reality. It is called Displacement and it is a real phenomenon. Don't believe me. Look it up.

Canadians claim Americans wear Canadian Maple Leaf patches in Europe as they are so rude and nobody wants to serve them, but Canadians are "loved". They also write Americans who visit Canada are stupid and ignorant. If I were treated as rudely in any country as the Canadians write of the Americans I would take my tourist dollars elsewhere.

I am all for separating the two and let's see who suffers.
At this point, I think the Canadians are becoming lazy, spoiled children, waiting for their government to do everything for them. That isn't my way at all. That isn't the American way either. That is why I am "in my comfort zone" down here, in control of my own destiny, and pleased to contribute to the country and pay my fair share on the way.

[sausageseller]

Go away troll!

[vladog]

Sounds like what Fat Willy & The Thing had planned for the US.

[vladog]

"Yeh, but Canada doesn't have the social problems that americans have."

Right keep telling yourself that!

[Dunedain]

Bullshit? Really? I guess you don't listen to your fellow Canadians much. Practically all Canadian comedy revolves around dressing up like women or slamming Americans.

[Dunedain]

"If Americans are loud, noisy, roiling, arrogant, or any other lusty descriptive, is the opposite true of Canadians?" As a Canadian who has travelled to the states I don't find this, to the majority, is true. I think we believe what we want to believe.

"Canadians claim Americans wear Canadian Maple Leaf patches in Europe as they are so rude and nobody wants to serve them, but Canadians are "loved". They also write Americans who visit Canada are stupid and ignorant"

Yes, I hear this all the time. It is very nauseating and I don't think Canadians realize how elitist and snobby they sound. We are in denial.

I really am an odd man out up here. I have always been a defender of America (well since high school) and you wouldn't believe how that makes one an ugly duckling up here. Heck, my wife is from Colorado and her parents are one of the staunchest Republicans you'd ever come across.

I'm sorry that Canadian act like that. It is a real shame. I can say we are NOT all like that, but I can't say the nice ones are in the majority.

It is one of the reasons I dislike Europe. I think we are poisoned by their attitudes. I remember being in Ireland and was called a "fucking American" because the Irish lady was rude to me. I didn't correct her as to my nationality but proceeded to explain how rude she was.

[kanawa]

In the West we have a sense of betrayal, but out East they don’t get it.

Fri, December 5, 2003 VANCOUVER (CP) - Liberal Leader Paul Martin said Thursday that British Columbia MPs will have a substantial voice in the new government he'll form in just over a week.

"In eight days you are going to have a new government in Ottawa, and in eight days we're going to start turning up the volume and the voice of four million British Columbians," Martin told a party fundraiser Thursday evening. "And we're going to keep that volume up into the next election and through the election. We're going to do it beyond the election." Martin said it was no coincidence his first speech as party leader outside of Ottawa or Montreal was here.

"I have said that I want to narrow the distance between British Columbia and Ottawa and coming here first before going anywhere else in the country is just the beginning of making that happen."

But there were no hints about how the province's six Liberal MPs will fit into Martin's plans as the prime minister in waiting stuck to well-worn themes from his leadership campaign about revitalizing democracy in Ottawa.

People here feel Ottawa is light years away, he said.

"We have got to change the way the nation's capital works with Canadians," said Martin.

"I want British Columbia at the national table. It's good for British Columbia but it's essential for Canada."

Of course...Watch what they do not what they say. Perhaps their 6 MPs will have a substantial voice but will it be one relevant to BCers?

[Dunedain]

The answer is no. The problem is they just don't get it back East. They don't even see their hypocrisy.

[MAGEE]

Well I am certainly "odd man out" on the Canadian forum I have been reading. I have never read such cruel things on a forum and the administrators apparently think it is fine to allow it. They wouldn't last a minute on this one.

A few years ago on this forum I read someone complaining about a forum in B.C. and I visited it and was astounded.
They are even worse now, but at the time, the Americans on this forum thought it unimportant.

I wonder if things will ever mend.

I am sorry you were treated so rudely by the Irish woman.
But then she was coming from an ignorant perspective, not inquiring as to your country before making a judgment.

It is odd being stuck between two "homes" isn't it? But I remain positive and try not to react too badly. It is difficult to keep the disappointment out though. Someone has stolen Canada.

[Dan Evans]

But in the US I also come across this extreme attitude that America can never do wrong.

Well, here at Free Republic every other post is about what the U.S. government is doing wrong.

[Dunedain]

You're a former Canuck?

What forum were you on?

To be honest my friends really piss me off. My wife moved from Colorado to be with ME. She loves me and didn't come because she was in love with Canada. She is still a US citizen and her family is in America.

Yet they think it is OK to slam America in front of her. She is so gracious and takes it well. But it pisses me off.

I think, what if I was a Canadian in the US and every day they bashed Canada in front of me? That would be rude, right? It's just common decency, no?

[Dan Evans]

I lived in British Columbia for about six months and the one major impression I took from it was the degree of intrusiveness not only from the government but from the people, young and old. A few anecdotes:

I'm sitting in a restaurant having breakfast and reading the newspaper and a man comes up and asks me if he could have a section of the paper. I said politely no, I'm not done with it yet. He goes away and comes back and asks a little more stridently, "Did you buy that paper or does it belong to the restaurant?" "Yes, I bought it, sir", I replied. He goes away all huffy.

One day I answer the door and a teenage girl asks me if I want to subscribe to the daily paper. "No, thank you," I said. She looks at me like she couldn't believe her ears, "May I ask WHY?!" I had to defend my case before she would go away.

One reason I didn't want a newspaper subscriptions is because they have a local law mandating recycling. All trash had to be separated into categories before it could be disposed of. The apartment complex where I lived could no longer afford to pay for the recycling service and so I had to drive my trash half a mile up the road to the city disposal area where they had about twenty different types of dumpsters for glass, paper, and the dozen or so types of plastic.

It just seemed that I encountered a lot pushy busybodies who were willing to go way out of their way to tell me how to live my life. It was interesting.

[BobS]

I know a gal in Edmonton who's sending me some warm socks! I can't find the ones I want in southern CA! It was -23C there yesterday and 40F in the morning here gives me cold feet:):)

[kanawa]

The problem is they just don't get it back East. They don't even see their hypocrisy.

Until there is a Triple E senate I will have no respect for our government.

Thursday, Dec. 11, 2003 Ottawa — Critics are accusing Prime Minister Jean Chrétien of a last-minute patronage spree, after he announced the appointment of his director of communications, Jim Munson, to the Senate Wednesday.

Mr. Chrétien, who retires Friday, announced the appointment as he returned home from a taxpayer-funded farewell gala in Paris given by French President Jacques Chirac.(Hurling vomit while ripping my hair out)

Canadian Alliance MP and House Leader John Reynolds said: "It's going to frustrate a lot of people. I believe the Senate should be elected."

A feisty reporter, Mr. Munson got into a shoving match in 1976 with Pierre Trudeau when the prime minister walked past reporters to the House of Commons and refused to answer questions.(Good for him but the Senate as currently constituted is a disaster in progress for Canada.)