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Bush to Propose Broad AmnestyTell Congress to Say No!
FAIR ^ | 12-24-03 | Fair staff

Posted on 12/24/2003 10:32:04 AM PST by Klickitat

Bush to Propose Broad Amnesty Tell Congress to Say No! We regret having to interrupt your holiday season with bad news on the immigration reform front, but the Washington Post reports this morning that President Bush and Karl Rove-in order to appeal to Hispanic voters-are poised to announce a sweeping amnesty plan during the second week of January. If you like amnesty, mass legal immigration, and the continued unprecedented decline in the American economic standard of living, you'll love President Bush's proposal.

While the details of the plan remain unclear, President Bush is expected to propose an outline modeled after legislation currently pending in the House and Senate, H.R.2899 and S.1461. Senator John McCain (R-AZ) and Representatives James Kolbe (R-AZ) and Jeff Flake (R-AZ) introduced these bills. This upcoming plan will undoubtedly reflect what President Bush meant when he announced last week at a press conference that he wants to match "any willing worker with any willing employer."

Why Your Help is Needed Now

President Bush and Karl Rove are convinced that this plan will appeal to Hispanic voters without offending his Republican base. In order for Bush to make his immigration proposal a reality, however, he will need to convince the leadership of the House of Representatives to press his plans on their Republican House colleagues who know better.

Here's How You Can Help:

First, send a free faxed message from our web site to President Bush, House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-IL) and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay.

Follow up your faxes with phone calls. Call the White House comment line at 202-456-1111 and leave a brief message telling the president no to his amnesty plan. Call the Speaker's office at 202-225-0600 and the Leader's office at 202-225-4000 and leave a brief message. Tell Speaker Hastert and Leader DeLay that Republicans should not abandon their law and order principles by advancing the open borders policies preferred by Democrats.

Your faxes and phone calls will be needed continuously over the course of at least the next three weeks. Please ask your friends, family, and coworkers to follow your lead in making their voices heard as well.

Talking Points:

Giving illegal aliens legal status does nothing to improve our national security. In fact it would take years and years to do background checks on the estimated 9-11 million illegal aliens who could be eligible for amnesty. An illegal alien who was amnestied in 1986, after all, later masterminded the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993.

Any guestworker program leading to legal status for illegal aliens is an amnesty and threatens homeland security by encouraging more illegal immigration. Every time an elected official talks about the possibility of granting amnesty to illegal aliens, it says to would-be illegal aliens that they had better get into the United States while the getting is good.

This program would reward people who have cheated the system with permanent residence. This country is based on the rule of law-it should not be manipulated by people who have cheated their way to the front of the line.

The current recovery from economic recession is unique in post World War II recoveries in that it comes without any benefit for American workers-just more offshore job outsourcing, low paying jobs, and an accompanying decline in the nation's standard of living. This new guestworker program may match any willing employer with any willing worker, but for American workers this means being displaced by cheap foreign labor and declining wages and working conditions for those fortunate enough to find or keep a job.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 1bushhaterbullshit; aliens; amnesty; bishisaliberal; bush43; bushamnesty; bushgore; bushgore2004; bushisademocrat; bushishillary; clintonequalsbush; criminals; flake; hillaryhasbigballs; hr2899; idiotbush; illegals; immigrantlist; immigration; insane; invasion; karlrove; kolbe; liberalbush; mccain; mecha; nationalsuicide; outrageous; pandering; republicanturncoats; rove; rovesucks; s1461; tancredo2004; thenannystate; thewelfarestate; thirdworldcountry; welfarestate; wgore
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To: Walkin Man
Not really.. re political suicide. There is NO alternative.. the elitists obviously have taken over both parties.. BOTH parties are promoting policies that are contrary to the will of the people.
51 posted on 12/24/2003 1:45:11 PM PST by Zipporah
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Comment #52 Removed by Moderator

Comment #53 Removed by Moderator

To: TomInNJ
Heck they never vote so nothing is missing..... There are around 100 million that vote each Presidential election or less out of the Population of the US. These have always stayed home and never voted...... so nothing missed.

But 80 million of the 100 million or so that vote aren't staying home of this one issue.....
54 posted on 12/24/2003 2:00:32 PM PST by deport
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To: Klickitat
"Sources said the White House's biggest concern is that the new mechanism not penalize people who had followed the law and reward those who had not. (from Washington Post article)"

If they really able to set up program which does not reward people who had already broken the law in any way, that would be excellent. A well designed "carrot and stick" guest worker program could remove the incentive from illegal immigration and make current illegals want to hightail it for home. A well designed program, with job protection for current citizens, one which made illegal immigration illogical and costly could be really be in everyone´s best interest. However it would have to be a serious program with real penalties for illegalities, not something designed to garner liberal votes. But I´d be completely opposed to any program which rewarded past law breakers, which is what amnesty does IMHO. However the program has to in no way reward the people who broke the law. Otherwise we are just begging for more illegal immigration.

55 posted on 12/24/2003 2:01:40 PM PST by dano1
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To: TomInNJ
You still haven't provided a source for the 80 million...... that is going to stay home.....

How many people were registered to vote 2000? any idea?

What's the VAP?
56 posted on 12/24/2003 2:05:58 PM PST by deport
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To: Klickitat; Digger; Zipporah
www.conservativeusa.org

...just a thought.

57 posted on 12/24/2003 2:19:06 PM PST by Ed_in_NJ
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To: Klickitat
Get the phones faxes and email circuits humming. This devil of legislation must NEVER see the light of day!
58 posted on 12/24/2003 2:22:34 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: StoneColdGOP
But he WILL get my vote! Over and over, George W. Bush has proved he knows exactly what he is doing......and I trust him completely. He has earned my trust. The immigration matter is very serious and over years has become a monstrous problem.
No one seems to have the perfect answer, but something must be done. Again, I trust President Bush. He has information and facts that we are not privy to.
59 posted on 12/24/2003 2:26:38 PM PST by Winfield
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To: drypowder
In that case, you WILL get Democrats. Not too bright!
60 posted on 12/24/2003 2:30:15 PM PST by Winfield
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To: Ed_in_NJ
Ah.. Howard Phillips.. a friend several years ago was a supporter of Phillips. Thanks.
61 posted on 12/24/2003 2:30:30 PM PST by Zipporah
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To: Winfield
"Over and over, George W. Bush has proved he knows exactly what he is doing......and I trust him completely. He has earned my trust."

I can say just the opposite. Other than, of course, I do agree.. Bush has proved he knows exactly what he is doing.. contravening the will of the people.

62 posted on 12/24/2003 2:33:39 PM PST by Zipporah
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To: TommyC1
Social Security in the long run is a mathematical impossibility. Maybe you could save it for two or three generations by increasing the population, but much longer than that the population required to sustain Social Security, (assuming current retirement age, longevity, and worker/retiree ratio) will not fit in the country.

Besides that, just the older family members that these illegals would bring in if they became citizens would probably suck more out of Social Security than they ever would pay into it. And besides that, the taxes required for social programs, education, prisons, medical, infrastructure etc. is more than what would be contributed to Social Security (or any other taxes). Wouldn't it be better to allow people to be responsible for and save for their own retirement by having to pay less in taxes than to make them dependent on government and the Social Security Ponzi scheme? Politicians liking dependence on government might be another reason they are pushing this.

Using Social Security to justify immigration is not fiscally sound and will eventually hit an environmental brick wall -- but, I guess, we will just continue to live in Disneyland as long as the politicians continue to promise something for nothing.

I wouldn't count on too much success in educating illegals to be Americans either. There are just too many of them that think it should be the other way around -- that Americans have been or should be trained to accommodate them. C-SPAN had a segment on this topic today and there was a caller who was a teacher in the trenches in LA teaching mainly illegal immigrants and she pretty much confirmed that.
63 posted on 12/24/2003 2:52:24 PM PST by bam
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To: Klickitat
Pure Rove in action.

Typical political strategy of reaching for the votes you don't yet have - cause, after all, your base has no where to go.

Hard to argue it doesn't have a reasoned logic to it. I mean, after all it worked for ole read my lips George didn't it? Hah!

64 posted on 12/24/2003 3:05:08 PM PST by kimoajax
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To: Kay Soze
American First, Conservative second and Republican third.

Hey Kay ......I like the way you think !
...and Yes I am Bush Bashing Too !

.....THUNDER......

65 posted on 12/24/2003 3:06:19 PM PST by THUNDER ROAD
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To: Klickitat
I am just waiting for someone to suggest we begin selling U.S. citizenship like the Romans used to. It makes far more sense than simply giving it away in exchange for hoped for votes.
66 posted on 12/24/2003 3:12:13 PM PST by kimoajax
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To: vladog
I've written, e-mailed, and faxed. It never seems to do any good. Both major parties in this country seem hell bent on giving the country away.

It is not going to do any good either. Apparently the Bush administration has decided against the will of American Citizens in this manor. They have been leaking info and floating balloons that indicate they are not going to do a damn thing that even faintly resembles enforcing the law.

If Bush closes the border and forces the illegals to surface that would be one thing to consider. In my estimation, the sun will rise in the west as well. If bush hangs a fresh coat of paint on amnesty, I'm buying ammo after Christmas. $hits commin.

67 posted on 12/24/2003 3:32:48 PM PST by TLI (...........ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA..........)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Sinkspur what's your take on this, other than bash those who disagree with Bush's latest domestic stinker?

I'll wait until it's official.

This could be another trial balloon, like the last one, that didn't pan out.

Lots of hysteria on this thread.

68 posted on 12/24/2003 3:46:23 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: TomInNJ
Bet on what?

That 80 million white people will stay home on Nov. 4, unless, of course, you're referring to Democrats who may be too demoralized to vote for Howard Dean.

69 posted on 12/24/2003 3:48:20 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: kimoajax
bump
70 posted on 12/24/2003 3:58:49 PM PST by Lady Eileen
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To: Klickitat
THE ONLY THING AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP IS GOOD FOR IS TO PAY EVERYBODY ELSE'S BILL'S!!!!!!!THIS BIT OF NONSENSE PROVES IT YET AGAIN!!!!!
71 posted on 12/24/2003 4:40:00 PM PST by Nebr FAL owner (.308 "reach out and thump someone " & .50 cal Browning "reach out & CRUSH someone")
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To: Klickitat
Polls consistently show that an overwhelmingly majority of Americans opposes amnesty, wants to stop illegal immigration, and even wants to reduce legal immigration. State legislatures are under intense pressure to raise taxes because there aren't enough schools to accomodate the rapidly growing immigrant population.

Yet Bush and his politically tone-deaf handlers are now proposing to open the floodgates. Country-club Republicans and the big corporations they cater to could care less about the crushing burdens their dream of an open border with Mexico would impose on the American people.

Enough is enough. Conservatives have become to the Republican Party what blacks are to the Democratic Party. We are constantly taken for granted, condescended to, and treated like lepers. Conservatives need to send the GOP a Christmas card: either get with the program or go down in defeat.

72 posted on 12/24/2003 5:00:34 PM PST by Holden Magroin
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To: TLI
I agree my with you.

Also I've noticed a lot of 'so called' Conservatives on this board who seem to think the problem with the illegals is not a problem.
73 posted on 12/24/2003 5:44:55 PM PST by vladog
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To: viaveritasvita; Happy2BMe
Amazing-annoying-frightening-they-should-be-ashamed-of-themselves-Reagan-did-it-and-it-failed-phone-those-boneheads-in-Washington-to-demand-the-obvious BUMP.

Notes to self: Send to private email distribution this weekend. Make phone calls when the elitists come back from yet another taxpayer funded "break." Locate letter written to GW on 9/10/01 telling him exactly what you thought about amnesty then and update it.

<><
74 posted on 12/24/2003 5:49:35 PM PST by viaveritasvita ("When Love takes you in, everything changes.")
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Comment #75 Removed by Moderator

To: Klickitat
Bump and done.
76 posted on 12/24/2003 6:13:18 PM PST by 4.1O dana super trac pak (Stop the open borders death cult)
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To: TomInNJ
Perot....... lol .. 3rd party or no 3rd party, the next President will come from either the Democrat or Republican Party.....

Yep ol' Perot with his crazy aunt got almost 20 million votes and just under 19%.... no where near the 80 million you are hyping but can't provide any links/sources to.....

Perot got Zero Electoral College votes of the 270 needed to be elected... 80 million going to set it out.... lol.

How many registered voters do you think there are?
77 posted on 12/24/2003 6:23:32 PM PST by deport
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Comment #78 Removed by Moderator

To: TomInNJ
Just what part of 80 million am I misreading? I've asked you provide sources/links to a number like that and you can't or haven't so far. It's not me throwing around numbers [80 million] that can't be proven. Bye bye.....
79 posted on 12/24/2003 6:50:41 PM PST by deport
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To: Klickitat
Homeland Security has added a BILLION DOLLARS a week to an already bloated spending plan and now wants to "CRADLE TO THE GRAVE" adopt 20 MILLION more Illegal Border Jumping Criminal ILLEGAL ALIENS! If ridge and the Bush Administration cave in to Vincente Fox's Mexican Gambit I am calling for IMPEACHMENT for every member of Congress who votes for this criminal legislation ...Period!

This is the absolute end of the road for the budget busting policies this Administration keeps coming up with. There is a limit to the type of TAXATION we will be obligated to support. I am calling for the end of the Nanny State Politics and Sugar Daddy Taxation that comes with no REPRESENTATION. It is now put up or shut up from here on out. There is simply no end to the ridiculous and oughtright thivery going on at the National Level of our Government.

It is unrealistic for "WE THE PEOPLE" to continue to get jerked around on all this and then be expected to support TAX SUPPORTED Legislation across the board with little or actually NO REPRESENTATION IN CONGRESS. There absolutely has to be a Blue Ribbon Oversight Pannel put in place to stop this evil plan dead in its tracks. The President is apparently getting and giving bad advice and the American people are going to be the worse off for allowing legislation of this kind to proceed. GWB was Govenor of Texas and OUR/MY state requires a balanced budget to operate legaly. It is now very much past time for the Federal Government to be put on a forced Capital Budget and start setting the example this nation needs to become FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE by controlling FEDERAL EXPENDITURES.

The un-controlled federal spending binge we have been on has now become a pronounced severe danger to ur national survival. There is a limit that we have to clamp down with and say this far and no more! Our wastefulness is a National Shame that has got to be ended and we must learn to live within our means and cut out defecit spending before America is totally BANKRUPT physically and with us already morally Bankrupt this spells doom for our Country. These people know exactly what they are doing; they cannot blame ignorance or any such nonsense. Power of this magnatitude in the wrong hands has got to be reigned in and put out of business. This will be the end if "WE THE PEOPLE DO NOT DEMAND A CHANGE"!

80 posted on 12/24/2003 6:53:45 PM PST by winker
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To: winker

IN NEW CONGRESS, July 4, 2004.

The unanimous Declaration of the 50 united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present and past government administrations is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

It has refused Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
It has forbidden Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, it has utterly neglected to attend to them.
It has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
It has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
It has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
It has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
It has endeavored to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
It has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing the Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
It has made Judges dependent on it's Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
It has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.
It has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
It has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
It has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving it's Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offenses
For abolishing the free System of Laws in the neighboring Province Washington, District of Columbia, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these States:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
It has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of it's Protection and waging War against us.
It has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
It is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to com pleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
It has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
It has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the invading usurpers of our culture, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A government whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our government employee brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in New General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these States, solemnly publish and declare, That these United States are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the Federal Government, and that all political connection between them and the province of Washington, District of Columbia, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

================================
I substituted the following...

It for His,

States for Colonies,

Washington District of Columbia of Great Briton,

Added "New" to congress,

Corrected the date.

Other than that, it is verbatim.

Red highlights are my own.

WORKED ONCE, OUGHT TO WORK AGAIN.

TLI



 
 

81 posted on 12/24/2003 7:52:58 PM PST by TLI (...........ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA..........)
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To: bam
Bush has told us what he wants to do with Social Security. Privatize it.

By law, that money belongs to the people. The way I understand the system, Congress "borrows" from the fund and never repays what they spend on various programs.

When Jerry Brown was governor of California, there was a surplus in tax monies. I don't recall what taxes. But, by LAW, the surplus HAD to be returned to taxpayers. The amount was something like $200 each. Brown would have preferred to save the money as a "cushion," he said, but the LAW forbade it.

Just you wait - Bush is going to do some fancy tap dancing to get SS into some gimmicky Goldman Sachs setup - or whatever financial broker. The whole idea all along has been to get complete control of the money. My humble opinion.

Back around 1999, I told FReepers that Bush was an "Establishment Man" - but I agreed to vote for him.

Merry Christmas!

82 posted on 12/24/2003 8:12:55 PM PST by lakey
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To: Klickitat

The program sounds very reasonable, and I reject the article's purported motive on the part of President Bush. My Congresscritters will be hearing a 'yes' from me.

83 posted on 12/24/2003 8:15:18 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: TomInNJ
"Bush is alienating millions and millions of white people with his immigration fiasco policies. Approximately 80 million white people will stay home next November 4."

That was a really stupid comment. Do you honestly think that it is only "white" people that would be annoyed with blanket amnesty for illegal immigrants? What about all of the legal immigrants (many Asian, non-caucasian) who came here with the hope of becoming American citizens, doing everything the legal way? I can assure you that blanket amnesty would probably annoy them too, it just doesn't seem fair to anyone who is law-abiding.

84 posted on 12/24/2003 8:19:21 PM PST by Valentine_W
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To: Klickitat
Bush to Propose Broad Amnesty Tell Congress to Say No! We regret having to interrupt your holiday season with bad news on the immigration reform front, but the Washington Post reports this morning that President Bush and Karl Rove-in order to appeal to Hispanic voters-are poised to announce a sweeping amnesty plan during the second week of January.

Oh merciful, in all your wisdom, in interrupting the holiday break with personal regret, and requesting freepers to answer to your reply, I'll convey my comments to Congress when they are in position to receive such comments.... After the 1st of the year.

Oh, by the way they will be directed to President Bush, NOT Carl Rove.

85 posted on 12/24/2003 8:24:23 PM PST by EGPWS
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To: Klickitat
Thanks whorejecito.
86 posted on 12/24/2003 8:29:04 PM PST by dagnabbit (Amnesty is Treason.)
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To: Klickitat
Thanks for the link to Numbers.USA. I sent faxes to all the objectives listed. Is Fair a repeat of the same, or should I go visit them as well?
87 posted on 12/24/2003 9:11:14 PM PST by bjcintennessee (Don't Sweat the Small Stuff)
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To: TommyC1
This is an unfounded assertion. Surrender your borders language and culture in order to boost pension funds. Insanity. Better take steps to reduce the cost of living for seniors. eg parallel imports of drugs from Canada and Brazil etc not socialized medicine that places even further burdens in the future on to todays younger generations.
Maasively undermining living wages will force more Citizens onto public welfare and generate charitable donor fatigue for institutions like the Red cross and Salvation Army.
This is like inducing an incurable flesh eatimg disease in order to excise a malignant growth. Introducing immigrants from a different culture speaking a different language at a rate far greater than the host society can assimilate them ,even assuming there is a mutual desire for intergration as opposing to locust style feasting, is a recipe for ethnic polarization and conflict.
Instead of allowing corporations to transfer social cost of foreign employees to US taxpayers who pay the the education and medical treatment of their workers better to force employers to make mandatory 401K contributions going forward and raise social security contributions or taxes now but clearly state that it's ring fenced to fill the SS hole for a time limited period. A good example would be the reunification taxes in West Germany. The federal retirement age is being raised and in future will be raised further.
State and federal retirement benefits will have to be reduced and people warned to make greater personal provision. Failure to do so will result in relying on charity. Having more foreign workers encourages greater transfers of funds overseas that further worsens the Balance of Payments weakening the US dollar and raising interest costs as people are less inclined to hold dollar bonds. Thinking that an ethnic group can be imported as a voting block is a fantasy that at best will serve term limited politicians on a one off basis. Once these people are legalised they'll vote for their own compatriots who will promise them Christmas every month and force us to pay for it.
Going forward voting for the opposition who are proposing more of the same will not help. Thats like surrendering your bill of rights and then trying to get it back. I think 70 years of gun control and now the USA PATRIOT Act have disspelled anyones illusions about the likelyhood of that.
The only non violent solution is massive grass roots involvement in political organizations. Pay minimum subscriptions but vote and stand for election on party boards, committees, organizing groups and councils.
The ACTIVE membership of these bodies is tiny and they are very easy to take over. If you're not a major contibutor incumbent politicians care little for your comments in an elitist 2 party system with little policy choice. Taking over the nomination, fund raising and vounteer coordination bodies though is very cheap and gives you real power. Thanks to Campaign Finance reforms emasculation of the first ammendment published dissent is effectively stymied so only by getting inside the apparatus can one effect change.
88 posted on 12/25/2003 5:44:39 AM PST by FreeFireBorderZone
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To: Winfield
With that level of ignorant unquestioning trust in your leader you should be happy living in North Korea
89 posted on 12/25/2003 5:49:33 AM PST by FreeFireBorderZone
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To: Klickitat; EternalVigilance; kristinn; Angelwood; tgslTakoma; BillF; Congressman Billybob
You know what? I just realized something. President Bush is a modern version of FDR. A popular wartime president who grossly expanded government and left a shredded Constitution in his wake. Let's see, so far, in no particular order, Dubya has:

Oh, by the way, Merry CHRISTmas !!

90 posted on 12/25/2003 7:32:53 AM PST by Xthe17th (It's the Senate, Stupid! Repeal the 17th amendment. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/repeal17)
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To: GunsareOK
How are ya Guns? Bumping you and this thread to my above post #90. Happy Holidays!
91 posted on 12/25/2003 7:35:38 AM PST by Xthe17th (It's the Senate, Stupid! Repeal the 17th amendment. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/repeal17)
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To: TommyC1; BOBTHENAILER; Dog Gone; Grampa Dave; Liz; Lando Lincoln
"I have two words you should understand: Social Security."

Here is the unadulterated truth of the matter, brought to you by one who actually understands the situation.

Reply #19 by TommyC1 exposes the "core sample" reasons and outcome of FDR's illegal ponzi scheme being wrecked by all the World War II GI's coming home triumphant and making babies.

The strain on government of providing old age assistance and a public pension for those who wouldn't, or couldn't do their own saving, investing and insuring in the "baby boom" battle of the bulge, is referred to in government circles as "The Pig In The Python!"

Imagine, if you will, the quagmire created by FDR, compounded by LBJ in setting up a welfare state for aging hippies with minds already damaged by drugs, entering nursing homes with alzheimers and other dementia that rarely shortens life but makes you a "Ward of the State!

You would all be wise to temper your passion with TommyC1's lucid view of reality and calm down a little before we have another 1992 election disaster!!!

Merry Christmas everyone, but remember... With Demonicrats in control of the treasury, everyday is Christmas for their voters, not you!!!

92 posted on 12/25/2003 8:12:57 AM PST by SierraWasp ("In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world..." John 16)
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To: Valentine_W
That was a really stupid comment. Do you honestly think that it is only "white" people that would be annoyed with blanket amnesty for illegal immigrants? What about all of the legal immigrants (many Asian, non-caucasian) who came here with the hope of becoming American citizens, doing everything the legal way? I can assure you that blanket amnesty would probably annoy them too, it just doesn't seem fair to anyone who is law-abiding.

I can't say if TomInNJ's comment was stupid or not as he didn't really say that it would be "only" white people that would be upset by amnesty and he may have been saying that white would just be a large subset, which would likely be true. Can't say how accurate the 80 million number is either.

Anyway, Valentine_W, I came across this Guest Opinion on MICHNEWS.COM written by the Director of Vietnamese for Fair Immigration which I think illustrates your point very well.

Racist Hispanics

I suppose the writer could have chosen a somewhat less inflammatory title, but he (I assume) makes some good points:

It should also be noted that Hispanics illegal aliens given legal residency and citizenship are now sponsoring their relatives for entry into the U.S., thus crowding Vietnamese out of the legal immigration system. Vietnamese immigration into the U.S. is thus about 30% lower due to past illegal alien amnesties.

Since 2 billion people want to come to the U.S. "for a better life", the only solution to this discrimination is to treat all illegal aliens the same way Vietnamese illegal aliens were treated. The U.S. should also treat children born to illegal aliens the same as the rest of the world.

I appreciate the last paragraph in the article:
In absolutely no way do we want the U.S. to increase immigration numbers as compensation for past discrimination. The current limits on family based immigration were arrived at after much study. These limits are for the best interests of the American people. We don't want to impose any additional burdens on the American people who have gratefully given us a new home in the land of freedom.

Imagine that coming from a La Raza type! It would never happen.

BTW, If you go to the above article and scroll down the right side there are links to some other, IMHO, great articles on immigration. I thought this one was particularly good and plan on printing out copies and sending them to my Senators (for whatever good it will do).
AMERICA'S BODY COUNT OF IMMIGRATION SUICIDE

A good mission statement from the author's website too:

THE TITANIC AND THE UNITED STATES

93 posted on 12/25/2003 2:10:57 PM PST by bam
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To: WackyKat; Landru; jla; sultan88; goldilucky; FBD; MeeknMing; Coop; hchutch
"If this is true, it is disgusting..."

I agree...IF THIS IS TRUE, Dubyuh's lost his way!!

Right must remind him that criminals need not be rewarded!! A general amnesty fer these felons is simply asinine and the right must make sure such an action NEVER becomes law!!

FReegards...MUD

94 posted on 12/25/2003 4:28:37 PM PST by Mudboy Slim (RE-IMPEACH Osama bil Clinton!!)
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To: Klickitat
"President Bush and Karl Rove are convinced that this plan will appeal to Hispanic voters without offending his Republican base."

I for one am extremely offended that this Administration cares so little about the rule of law that we would reward these Felons with citizenship!!

SHEEEEESH...MUD

95 posted on 12/25/2003 4:30:32 PM PST by Mudboy Slim (RE-IMPEACH Osama bil Clinton!!)
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To: kimoajax
Hard to argue it doesn't have a reasoned logic to it. I mean, after all it worked for ole read my lips George didn't it? Hah!

There is no immigration policy I can imagine that will gain the President popularity. It he does this, all I can see is that he is giving in to public pressure from a certain foreign leade, to private pressure from a few business leaders who think they can save their company some money by hiring themselves some newly minted second class citizens AKA guest workers, and to the pressure of his own personal convictions. Rove will try to get Hispanic votes out of this, but I doubt it will work, and I doubt that feeble hope is why they are doing this. I'm afraid that our MBA President really does believe in having amnesty and guest workers.

96 posted on 12/25/2003 6:00:44 PM PST by Steve Eisenberg
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To: Mudboy Slim
A general amnesty for these felons is simply asinine and the right must make sure such an action NEVER becomes law!!

Well, I can at least reassure Mudboy Slim about one thing. They won't use the word "anmesty." Instead, expect to hear that "families" of "undocumented workers" will be able to "earn" permanent residency. Of course, they will be disrespecting our immigration laws every day they do this earning.

Also expect to hear that immigration laws will be tightened against future illegals. Of course, this won't work, because the message to the people of Mexico will be that illegal entry to the US makes sense so long as you are willing to put up with a few tough underpaid years first.

97 posted on 12/25/2003 6:15:26 PM PST by Steve Eisenberg
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To: Klickitat
I came up with an idea to solve the illegal immigration problem - pass new law which does the following:

1. Any one/company hiring an illegal alien must pay for him to return to his original country, for the first illegal alien they have hired.

2. For the second illegal alien, they must pay for his return, and return an additional illegal.

3. For the third illegal alien they must pay for his return, plus the return of 2 more illegals.

etc, etc, etc.

4. At the same time, if illegal #1 is caught illegally in the US again, all the equations above are doubled. And if a second is found to have returned, then the above requirements are tripled.

etc, etc, etc

Soon, we would have no illegal problem.
98 posted on 12/25/2003 6:27:56 PM PST by XBob
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To: Steve Eisenberg; Landru; Happygal; MadIvan; jla; sultan88; cherry_bomb88
"I can at least reassure Mudboy Slim about one thing. They won't use the word "amnesty."

LOL...why do they think we're sooo FRiggin' STOOOOPID?! Is Karl "Marx" Rove that FRiggin' STOOOOPID?!! (Good Question, imho)

"Instead, expect to hear that "families" of "undocumented workers" will be able to "earn" permanent residency. Of course, they will be disrespecting our immigration laws every day they do this earning."

I'm sure we all have relatives who could benefit from American citizenship...so FRiggin' what?!

"Also expect to hear that immigration laws will be tightened against future illegals."

Once again, do I have "STOOOOPID" stamped on my forehaid?!!

"Of course, this won't work, because the message to the people of Mexico will be that illegal entry to the US makes sense so long as you are willing to put up with a few tough underpaid years first."

A lotta folks wanna crack at our economy, that's why we developed "Immigration Laws!!"

"Lawbreakers Deserve JailTime, not Amnesty!!"

FReegards...MUD

99 posted on 12/25/2003 8:51:30 PM PST by Mudboy Slim (RE-IMPEACH Osama bil Clinton!!)
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To: StoneColdGOP
Make them believe they won't get your vote if they support this crap.

-----

They won't get my vote if they support this crap. And I don't care if we end up with a President Dean. I'm a conservative first and a Republican second and I will not betray my ideas so a party that's supposedly representing my interests can stay in power.

If Bush does this, he loses his base and loses the 2004 election.
100 posted on 12/25/2003 10:26:27 PM PST by applemac_g4
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