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CA: Major parole moves on the table. Governor's ideas would reduce prison population, save millions
Sacramento Bee ^ | December 27, 2003 | Gary Delsohn

Posted on 12/27/2003 9:43:20 AM PST by John Jorsett

Edited on 04/12/2004 6:02:22 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Convinced that California can no longer afford its $5.3 billion prison and parole system, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's administration is exploring moves that would all but eliminate parole conditions for nonviolent, nonserious offenders and eventually -- through early release and lighter penalties -- dramatically shrink the prison population. Some of the moves result from recent court settlements. Others are efforts whose planning began under former Gov. Gray Davis and have been speeded up by Schwarzenegger.


(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: calgov2002; parole; prisons
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1 posted on 12/27/2003 9:43:20 AM PST by John Jorsett
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To: John Jorsett
"Arnold has had us identify the nonviolent, nonthreatening inmates," said one high-ranking corrections official working on some of the proposals. "We could probably cut the (prison) population by a third, which would be a huge savings for taxpayers and give some of these people a chance to be productive citizens again."

By all means, let's parole the nonthreatening inmates!!

Isn't it amazing how politicians spent a decade or two getting votes by promising to lock up more people and now politicians are going to be getting votes by promising to save money by releasing the nonthreatening inmates?

Why are we such suckers to play this game?

2 posted on 12/27/2003 9:48:52 AM PST by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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To: Scenic Sounds
Actually IMO this is a good idea if there is follow up. Many people are in jail that should be out having to work and support their families. He needs to look at removing "felonies" that are handed out for just about everything these days if the ones released are going to have a chance for a good job though.
3 posted on 12/27/2003 9:55:45 AM PST by CindyDawg
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To: John Jorsett
Why not eliminate the criminal codebook? We could save billions. Lordy, we spent decades trying to get those who supported drug cartels and violent criminals off the streets, now Arno is planning to infuse the cartel/gang pipeline with new cash. Gotta love it.
4 posted on 12/27/2003 9:56:36 AM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: CindyDawg
Cindy, have you ever asked yourself why crime has dropped dramaticly in the last decade? Tougher sentencing was the reason IMO. Now we're about to eliminate that tougher sentencing. Good idea?
5 posted on 12/27/2003 9:58:00 AM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: CindyDawg
Actually IMO this is a good idea if there is follow up. Many people are in jail that should be out having to work and support their families. He needs to look at removing "felonies" that are handed out for just about everything these days if the ones released are going to have a chance for a good job though.

Yeah, I agree with you, but in the eighties, it was expedient for politicians to be irrational about crime. The idea was to legislate justice in individual cases and to take away the discretion of judges and even prosecutors - mandatory sentences were good for a lot of votes.

There were of course voices warning that this day would come, but no one listened. Mostly, we just lost a lot of money and we've got plenty of that in this country. ;-)

6 posted on 12/27/2003 10:08:39 AM PST by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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To: John Jorsett
If there are 1,000,000 inmates in California then that 53,000 per inmate. These institutions are getting like schools in that the top is so heavy its about to roll over the ship.
7 posted on 12/27/2003 10:16:38 AM PST by liberty or death
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To: John Jorsett
All on Death row this your last supper burger fris and a coke

tommorows the day see ya

End of story

8 posted on 12/27/2003 10:20:58 AM PST by al baby (Ice cream does not have bones)
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To: DoughtyOne
I've heard the statistics but around here it's hard to see. Anyway, I'm not talking about violent criminals. Some need the key thrown away. I'm just more for rehabilitation such as half way houses, making offenders work to support their families and pay back victims and costs. What good does it do to have them locked up and draining society ? I think a little something called "personal responsibility" overlooked along the way.
9 posted on 12/27/2003 10:21:15 AM PST by CindyDawg
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To: John Jorsett
give some of these people a chance to be productive citizens again

Does this mean they never had a chance? Give us a break! I may be a hard case but I believe if you do the crime, you ought to do the time. End of story.

10 posted on 12/27/2003 10:22:12 AM PST by drypowder
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To: John Jorsett
Not a bad idea if carefully, intelligently done...and for the threatening inmates on death row : carry it out.
11 posted on 12/27/2003 10:23:47 AM PST by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions = Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: John Jorsett
Hey Arnie. Instead of deporting illegal aliens, which is the choice of the vast majority of California citizens, you could follow Bush's lead and match willing workers to willing employers.

We could take some of our illegal guests and make them COs. They work cheap and aren't bothered by lack of a fancy retirement program.

What do you think Arnie? You'd be a hero to the Hispanic caucus, California would save millions and we'd keep in tack the deterrent value of sentencing guidelines that have dramatically reduced criminal activity in California.

We could even require these new COs to reside inside the walls and we'd have a double win-win situation

12 posted on 12/27/2003 10:31:35 AM PST by Amerigomag
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To: DoughtyOne
Now we're about to eliminate that tougher sentencing. Good idea?

I think "3 strikes" was a major component to the drop in violent crime, and letting the nonviolent ones out wouldn't reverse 3 strikes.

13 posted on 12/27/2003 10:33:27 AM PST by John Jorsett
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To: John Jorsett
I'm willing to give Arnie credit for trying to make the system more workable. Pre-release counseling sounds like a great idea. Should've been implemented long before now. As to the non-violent offenders in prison for drug use, they've been punished, it's not like they're getting away with it. The state could show some flexibility here. Let some of them out, and see how it goes.
14 posted on 12/27/2003 10:41:55 AM PST by Ciexyz
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To: Scenic Sounds
Maybe it could be good if all the non-violent criminals who aren't citizens are immediately deported and permanently banned from legal re-entry or legal residency.
15 posted on 12/27/2003 10:51:20 AM PST by FITZ
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To: Ciexyz
I'm in favor of letting them out into a setting similar to the tent city that Phoenix has used. The institutional costs are reasonable. The best rehabilitation consists of not wanting to return to the correctional facility. Carpet, television, recreation, weight training facilities, etc. enable quite a few to elevate their life style and encourage return visits. Tent city and enforcing 187 would probably do more for the budget than turning the hoodlums back onto the streets.
16 posted on 12/27/2003 11:01:14 AM PST by meenie (Remember the Alamo! Alamo! One more time. Alamo!!!)
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To: DoughtyOne
Lordy, we spent decades trying to get those who supported drug cartels and violent criminals off the streets, now Arno is planning to infuse the cartel/gang pipeline with new cash.

He should keep those working for the violent drug cartels locked up obviously --- but California prisons contain an awful lot of Mexican criminals --- drug users, DWI's, shoplifters, bad check writers who could be sent back to their own government and taxpayers to deal with. I wouldn't release any of those here but if they're deported and banned from reentry it could help cut costs.

17 posted on 12/27/2003 11:03:00 AM PST by FITZ
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To: John Jorsett
most of the targeted offenders are now locked up for nonviolent, drug-related crimes

"Tommy Chong and his terrorist-enabling, perverted lifestyle, long-haired freaky people, won't see the light of day if I have to instruct every prosecutor in California to go for the death penalty wherever the demon weed rears its mind destroying head.  This ain't over."
                                 -----John Ashcroft, coming soon
18 posted on 12/27/2003 11:05:23 AM PST by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: John Jorsett
Bout time. There are crimes that deserve jail time and there are 'crimes' that do not. I never did see how creating so many new laws, creating new criminals and building new prisons all over the place fit into the American way. Especially the feminist related laws where so many men go to prison for being poor, or for "breaking" a protective orders by sending flowers or cards to their wives trying to patch things up.

Then there's all this nonsensical "mandatory jail" stuff where the Judge's power to determine extenuating or mitigating circumstances is stripped away and he is reduced to a human rubber stamp. And let's not forget all these "hate crimes" they came up with that punish the person for both the crime and his alleged thoughts. Of courese there's the Draconian "three strikes" laws that turn life into a sporting event and sends 'career criminals' away for life for doing such horrible things as stealing a pizza or a bag of golf clubs, (yes, these are on record in CA). Then there's the WOD that sometimes sends a highschool kid to jail for possession of a roach.

Let's face it, there are way too many people in jails today for committing the pettiest of crimes, and way too many wealthy, famous or politically connected criminals who are always found not guilty. It's become a system of whose got the connections, fame and $$$$$$$ more now than ever before. The famous entertainer type will almost always walk, the wealthy will more often than not buy 'justice', those connected to the "law enforcement system" are specially privileged, and the poor fill the prisons.

I didn't grow up in an America like this and it's nice to see things beginning to change somewhere.

19 posted on 12/27/2003 11:05:25 AM PST by TheCrusader
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To: FITZ
Maybe it could be good if all the non-violent criminals who aren't citizens are immediately deported and permanently banned from legal re-entry or legal residency.

I'm not sure anyone would disagree with that.

Immigration is of course another issue in which the public is being taken for a ride. Politicians of both parties pretend to be opposed to illegal immigration, but enough politicians of both parties either quietly believe or are paid to quietly believe that illegal immigrants are a net boon to our economy as a whole or are at least crucial to those sectors of our economy who pay these politicians to think that way. As a result, very few politicians are willing to take the step (heavy employer sanctions) that would be required to really curtail illegal immigration. Instead, we have politicians who pander to the public by proposing walls and troops along our borders - "solutions" they know will not interfere with the economic needs of their patrons. Right now, of course, the public is being prepared for an upgrade in the status of illegal immigrants. That's always a tricky one, but don't underestimate our politicians - these guys are good! LOL.

20 posted on 12/27/2003 11:06:29 AM PST by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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To: John Jorsett
I think "3 strikes" was a major component to the drop in violent crime, and letting the nonviolent ones out wouldn't reverse 3 strikes.

Would you consider someone who broke into a house and stole property "Non-Violent" if they did it when no one was home?

21 posted on 12/27/2003 11:06:46 AM PST by Mark was here (My fan club: You're a plague on this forum and I hope you find reason to leave.)
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To: John Jorsett
I was working for the Army a few years ago and it was near a women's prison. We used the prisoners as cheap labor and they were all in for being drug mules for their boyfriends. Basically they get duped into hauling the drugs and because of the poundage get these mandatory sentences while the real dealers stay scot free.

Seems to me that they had no idea of the possible penalty when they agreed to drive a pick-up full of weed around and didn't intend to hurt anyone. Maybe I'm just a sucker but I never felt threatened around the prisoners.
22 posted on 12/27/2003 11:11:15 AM PST by byteback
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To: Scenic Sounds
I think all the crime-committing immigrants should get deported --- don't limit it to the illegals but those who are here legally that got involved in some kind of crime and are now in prison. Any of the "dual-citizens" also --- just send them back if they're not working out.
23 posted on 12/27/2003 11:12:43 AM PST by FITZ
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To: FITZ
I agree, there must ba a few of those.
24 posted on 12/27/2003 11:14:33 AM PST by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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To: Mrs Mark
Would you consider someone who broke into a house and stole property "Non-Violent" if they did it when no one was home?

If that's the only crime under consideration, yes.

25 posted on 12/27/2003 11:52:09 AM PST by John Jorsett
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To: John Jorsett
Heck I've got a better idea. Lets issue .45's with 7 rounds of ammo to each of the prisoners and tell them we will pardon the last man standing.

It would save millions.
26 posted on 12/27/2003 12:00:39 PM PST by taxcontrol (People are entitled to their opinion - no matter how wrong it is.)
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To: Scenic Sounds
Why are we such suckers to play this game?

<That's the question I keep asking myself at every election.

27 posted on 12/27/2003 12:02:45 PM PST by templar
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To: John Jorsett
If that's the only crime under consideration, yes.

Mom Says Thieves Stole Christmas Presents

I say theves who break into houses are violent, they hurt people and they should be locked away for 40 years.

28 posted on 12/27/2003 12:08:25 PM PST by Mark was here (My fan club: You're a plague on this forum and I hope you find reason to leave.)
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To: CindyDawg
First off you are deluding yourself if you think more than a very small minority of these inmates will ever be rehabed.

The pattern is set when they first start through the joke of a juvenile justice system that pats them on the hand and tells them not to do it again...oh, say 10 or more times before they start to punish them with community service..playing basket ball with under previliged kids, or picking up some trash at the most.

A burglar is not a violent criminal but he commists dozens of burglaries a year usually about $3,000 per household....YOUR insurance goes up as a result of all these burglaries. Same goes for a car thief and your car ins goes up as a result.

Each court appearance cost about $5,000.

One case in Memphis I happened to hear while waiting for my son's killer to be tried...Your honor my client is NOT in your court because he is in judge so and so court downstairs. This 1 criminal tied up two judges, two prosecutors and two defense lawyers.

About 40% of the cost of prison is prisoner AMENITIES according to John Diliulio.

There is a Reader's Digest (1994) article "Why Must our Prisons be RESORTS" it details the "goodies" our prisoners enjoy. Your blood will boil when you read about these goodies which include conjucial visits which produce a few more welfare babies for you to support.

READER'S DIGEST NOVEMBER 1994 BY ROBERT JAMES BIDINOTTO MUST OUR PRISONS BE RESORTS?

Mercer Regional Correctional Facility is a complex of tidy brick buildings situated in the rolling countryside of western Pennsylvania. From a distance, a visitor might mistake this state prison with its manicured green lawns for one of the nearby liberal arts colleges.

In his office, Superintendent Gilbert Walters explains that Mercer's 850 convicted felons "aren't evil, by and large. Many just did not have good life circumstances and have reacted inappropriately." Walters, who began his career in counseling and refers to the inmates as "clients," tries to make the prison experience "as much like the street as I can."

It's hard to imagine that, for most of Mercer's "clients," life outside could be this good. One of the three full time "activities directors" shows me the Recreation Building. "Nothing cheap here," he says proudly, pointing out the full sized basketball court, hand ball area, punching bag and volleyball net. There are enough barbells to "bulk up" 15 criminals at a time; others can use weight lifting machines. Nine electronic exercise bicycles and four stair type aerobics machines face a TV, all part of the Leisure Fitness Program. Outside, the men can play softball and sharpen their tennis skills. Emotional problems? Five psychologists and ten counselors are there for Mercer's "clients."

Housing about a third of the inmates are two dormitories with 8x10 foot "rooms" (not cells) equipped with desks and bookshelves. As we enter one room, a chubby, middle aged man turns down the volume on his TV set. This housing unit, the guide says, shelters a "peer group" with "special needs"" largely rapists and child molesters. Mercer is not an exceptional institution; it is, in fact, typical. A nationwide Reader's Digest survey shows that in most prisons, felons have access to a startling array of creature comforts.

*Hard labor is out, physical fitness is in. From aerobics to strength training to boxing, today's thugs and armed robbers can return to the streets bigger, stronger and faster than ever. *When they're tired of working out, they can join theater groups, take music lessons or college courses--all for free. Or they can tune in the latest R-rated movies. *The overall cost of these prison amenities is soaring. They take up a huge portion of state correctional budgets, while thousand of violent criminals are released each year for lack of space. Inside New York's maximum security Attica prison, which houses many of the Empire State's most violent felons, there is an incongruous sight: three small white buildings, which some staffers call "the hotel." Here, a counselor schedules up to 18 inmates per week for sex with their wives. New York offers such facilities for so called private family visits at 14 of its prisons. In seven other states, including Washington, and New Mexico cottages, trailers, mobile homes, even tents are used.

End excerpt

When the inmates a few years ago rioted in Memphis at a federal prison, they did several million dollars in damage to the facility. They destroyed their MUSIC instruments in the process. We the TAXSERFS had to REPROVIDE them..at the tune of $2,500 per month (to avoid the bidding process) over a several month time frame. When the inmates as Shelby Co Jail rioted they damaged the facility to the tune of couple of million bucks...BUT they didn't touch their precious TVs.

29 posted on 12/27/2003 12:25:51 PM PST by GailA (Millington Rally for America after action http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/872519/posts)
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To: GailA
Who said anything about basketball and play time? There may have been a lot of good points in your article but you lost me when you started out with the delusional stuff so I apologize if I am actually agreeing instead of disagreeing with you because I didn't read your entire post.

I'm talking about behavior modification. They don't have to like it but some (not all, I agree) can be motivated to work. There is a lot worse punishment available than sitting on their butt in jail being feed while you and I support their families and pay for their crimes.

30 posted on 12/27/2003 12:37:05 PM PST by CindyDawg
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To: Mrs Mark
I say theves who break into houses are violent, they hurt people and they should be locked away for 40 years.

I'd classify as 'violent' those who break in while the home owners are present. I'd give anyone who was convicted a second for burglary a stiff sentence, and the third time, put them away until they're, oh, 65 or so.

31 posted on 12/27/2003 12:47:48 PM PST by John Jorsett
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To: Mrs Mark
most thieves go into unoccupied homes after the owners leave. This is a major irritant and can also effect the ole wallet, but it is not violent. Most of these criminals are in fact cowards because they do not want to face their victims, who may shoot them or perform ball bat counselling.
32 posted on 12/27/2003 12:56:33 PM PST by breakem
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To: John Jorsett
My guess is he play it off that he is letting people out that the voters say should have more flexiblity for Drug Crimes a couple election back with Prop ???....Oh I forgot the number.
33 posted on 12/27/2003 1:00:06 PM PST by Paul8148
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To: John Jorsett
From the article: "Administration sources said the ideas are driven by California's fiscal problems and, if successful, could save the state hundreds of millions of dollars a year. "

Until Kalifornia decides to stop threatening me with prison for having a pistol grip on a rifle, I will not believe that they are serious about avoiding bankruptcy.

And I am certainly NOT going to approve borrowing $15 billion dollars to help them avoid the unintended consequences of their tyranny.

34 posted on 12/27/2003 3:27:54 PM PST by William Tell
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To: John Jorsett
Both times that our old house in California was burglarized, I didn't think it was really a big deal because, after all, it was non-violent. /sarcasm
35 posted on 12/27/2003 6:29:33 PM PST by ReagansShinyHair
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To: Mrs Mark
I say theves who break into houses are violent, they hurt people and they should be locked away for 40 years.

I agree. Even though they haven't done anything violent just by breaking in, they've shown that they are willing to be violent by risking a confrontation with the homeowner. Both times we were burglarized, I have no doubt that the burglars would have not given a thought to doing something horrible to me had I caught them in the act.

We were home during one burglary, but they only stole tools out of the garage so we didn't know until late that night when my husband checked the garage before going to bed. If I had walked into the garage to do laundry or anything else while they were there, do you think they would have put everything down and said they just wanted to be friends?

The second time, I had only gone back to work that week from summer vacation (teacher), and they burglarized the house only about an hour before I got home. I came home to a house with the back door wide open. They could easily have still been upstairs. I doubt in this case that things would have remained non-violent had I been home an hour sooner, which I easily could have.

36 posted on 12/27/2003 6:38:45 PM PST by ReagansShinyHair
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To: John Jorsett
The mandatory sentencing guidelines were absurd to begin with. Created because liberal Judges used their benches as bully-pulpits for activism. When the state took away discretionary senetencing from the bench, with it went justice. While something had to be done about liberal activist judges, mandatory senetencing was not the answer.
37 posted on 12/27/2003 6:50:49 PM PST by 101viking
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To: Scenic Sounds
What happened to your article this week?
38 posted on 12/27/2003 6:51:28 PM PST by patton (I wish we could all look at the evil of abortion with the pure, honest heart of a child.)
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To: CindyDawg
You can't force them in to rehab or behavior modification. Inmates know to get on the good side of parole boards to "grab" a program.

What did you find dislusional? That we not only provide high quality basketball courts, or that we give them music instruments that they in turn can turn in to weapons...guitar strings make excellent garrot wire.

Bidinotto does EXCELLENT research. I could post what is written in Tennessee inmate handbooks. I've got two of them.

further excerpts from the RD article

Socializing with the outside world is also a feature of prison life. In Louisiana, the Angola prison Drama Club players (whose president is a convicted murderer) visits colleges and theaters. On the grounds of the Penitentiary of New Mexico near Santa Fe, some 1200 inmates and their guest whoop it up at the annual "Outta Joint" picnic. At last year's festivities, they were entertained by a clown, a puppet show, a political satire performance and eight bands.

Last March 19, in the $2 Million visitor' center at the Massachusetts Correctional Institution in Norfolk, the Lifers Group held its annual "Lifers Banquet." Some 33 convicts, mostly murderers, and 49 invited guests enjoyed catered prime rib dinners.

"Inmates are sent here as punishment, not for punishment, says Joseph T. Smith, Deputy Superintendent for Programs at Bedford Hills Correctional Facility, a maximum security prison in New York State. In truth, nothing seems too much for society's predators.

How did the pendulum swing so far from the austere, even harsh conditions of the past? John J. DiIulio, a prominent political scientist at Princeton University who has studied and written about prisons for 15 years, explains: "Prisons used to emphasize inmate discipline and forced labor, and wardens ruled the cellblocks with an iron fist. Beginning in the 1960s, federal judges ruled only that prisoners were entitled to nutritious meals, basic health services and protection against arbitrary discipline at the hands of guards. But a number of federal judges went beyond such reasonable reforms and began ordering that prisoners be provided with expensive, untested treatment programs and a wide range of recreational opportunities regardless of the cost.

Last year, the Boston Globe reported, Massachusetts set up a Correctional Recovery Academy in its state prisons at a price tag of $1000 per inmate. A major component was yoga.

At the Dade Correctional Institution near Miami, members of the Inmates' Cultural Club have developed a taste for opera. Prison librarian Rolando Valdes obtained a series of federal grants and purchased a 50 inch TV and laser disc equipment. Each Saturday night, he conducts opera appreciation classes in the prison library. Funded by another government grant, several inmates have even written their own opera, El Caido-a tale of a prisoner who rehabilitates himself. Says co-composer Elton Edwards, a "lifer" convicted of murdering a home owner during a robbery, "its been great therapy for us."

Therapy for mental health, aggressive behavior, domestic violence, sex offenses and substance abuse has grown into a prison cottage industry. Yet after decades of attempting behavior modification, the overall results of rehabilitation and therapy are meager. When asked by Reader's Digest how many sex offenders he has rehabilitated in his years on the job one New York State prison counselor bluntly responded, "None."

Inmates, for their part, are not fools: participation in education and therapy can chip time off their terms. "The saying among inmates is 'get a program,' says criminologist Charles Logan of the University of Connecticut. "They know that it will help with the parole board."

Studies by the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics have shown that between 60-70 percent of inmates revert to crime after release. (My note: current recidivisim rate is 68% according to the BJS) A model federal prison at Butner, N.C. applied every known rehabilitation technique to inmates for over a decade. The results: no reduction in recidivism and no improvement in convicts' employment prospects.

After extensive study of prison rehabilitation criminologist Logan concludes: "Despite claims to the contrary, no type of treatment has been effective in rehabilitating criminals or preventing future criminal behavior."

39 posted on 12/27/2003 7:37:28 PM PST by GailA (Millington Rally for America after action http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/872519/posts)
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To: All
According to (Federation for American Immigration Reform) fairus.org "California authorities requested compensation from the federal government in FY'99 for the incarceration expenses for 11,236,513 days of detention for illegal aliens in state and local jails and prisons. The cost of the detention amounted to $615,860,143. . .FY'02 SCAAP [the federal State Criminal Alien Assistance Program] data indicate that California's illegal alien inmate population has increased by 31 percent from the 11,236,510 inmate days in FY'99 (to 14,682,285 inmate days in FY'02)."

[end excerpt]

It's likely many will be released and deported? Sure. Billions more besides law enforcement and prisons are spent on ILLEGAL aliens by the state. Locals together spend billions more. Schwarzeneger is not likely to touch a dime of the state money and the feds (you guys) are expected to bail out the California cities and counties such as the recent billion dollar federal bailout for ILLEGAL'S health care. The money saved on prisons will simply be drained from other untouchable portions of state and local programs. I bet. Maybe citizens and legal residents could be cut off?

Some political cartoonist called it, Sinkhole de Mayo.

40 posted on 12/27/2003 7:42:55 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael
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To: John Jorsett
And hear I thought the firing squads were going to get busy.
41 posted on 12/27/2003 7:44:35 PM PST by vladog
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To: breakem
Most thieves go into unoccupied homes after the owners leave. This is a major irritant and can also effect the ole wallet, but it is not violent. Most of these criminals are in fact cowards because they do not want to face their victims, who may shoot them or perform ball bat counseling.

I came home after my house was broke into, and I felt more than irritated.

I felt more than a bite out of my wallet.

I felt that my rights to my property were not respected, and in truth my rights were VIOLATED.

Notice the close relationship between VIOLated and VIOLent?

If the law does not fully punish those who violate the sanctity of ones home, the law is then nothing but a joke, and no one is safe.

42 posted on 12/28/2003 5:52:06 AM PST by Mark was here (My fan club: You're a plague on this forum and I hope you find reason to leave.)
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To: patton
Well, you know, I took a Thanksgiving break. :-)

Thanks for the ping!
43 posted on 12/28/2003 9:45:00 AM PST by Cathryn Crawford (¿Podemos ahora sonreír?)
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To: patton
Christmas, not Thanksgiving! My brain is on holiday as well.
44 posted on 12/28/2003 9:45:53 AM PST by Cathryn Crawford (¿Podemos ahora sonreír?)
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To: Cathryn Crawford
slacker
45 posted on 12/28/2003 10:18:00 AM PST by patton (I wish we could all look at the evil of abortion with the pure, honest heart of a child.)
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To: patton
What happened to your article this week?

I'll have one out next Friday - thanks for asking. Once I'm finished with my Christmas shopping, I'll be able to work on it full-time. ;-)

46 posted on 12/28/2003 10:45:36 AM PST by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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To: Scenic Sounds
Psst, Cathryn - Christmas was Thursday...
47 posted on 12/28/2003 10:48:52 AM PST by patton (I wish we could all look at the evil of abortion with the pure, honest heart of a child.)
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To: patton
Psst, Cathryn - Christmas was Thursday...

I know it is! I'll be ready for it. I'm nearly done shopping.

48 posted on 12/28/2003 10:50:27 AM PST by Cathryn Crawford (¿Podemos ahora sonreír?)
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To: John Jorsett
identify the nonviolent, nonthreatening inmates

Gray Davis or our Democrat-dominated legislature considered releasing "nonviolent" inmates about a year ago. Kentucky did it last year, and one of the "nonviolent" convicts raped a young woman soon after his early release.

The problem is that the "nonviolent" category of crimes includes crimes I might consider violent but don't meet the requirements to be considered "violent."

49 posted on 12/28/2003 4:14:26 PM PST by heleny (No on propositions 55, 56, 57, 58)
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To: Wolfie; vin-one; WindMinstrel; philman_36; Beach_Babe; jenny65; AUgrad; Xenalyte; Bill D. Berger; ..
WOD Ping
50 posted on 12/29/2003 12:26:54 PM PST by jmc813 (Help save a life - www.marrow.org)
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