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Rumbling on the Hard-Right
The Washington Times ^ | December 30, 2003 | Stephen Dinan

Posted on 12/30/2003 11:44:49 AM PST by GunsareOK

Edited on 07/12/2004 3:41:02 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

President Bush is beginning to anger certain hard-line conservatives, particularly over fiscal issues, the way his father did in the year before he lost to Bill Clinton in 1992.

It's not clear how deep the dissatisfaction goes, and whether it will translate to damage at the polls in November.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; 2004elections; bush; conservativevote; cutnosespiteface; electionpresident; gwb2004; twopercenters; votegfordean; wastedvotes
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To: At _War_With_Liberals
"I believe that some form of globalism is inevitable, so we must try to spread our values and our form of government and beat the global socialists at their own game."

You are a globalist.

You were a Dem until 1980, during their radical phase.

That is all I need to know about you. Now I understand you.
361 posted on 12/30/2003 4:12:33 PM PST by At _War_With_Liberals
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To: Lael
Just don't cry in your beer November 3rd, when the Democrat inherits the Oval Office!

The odds of that are very slim with any of the current democrat candidates. About the same as Clinton losing back when the Republicans ran what's his name, Dole I think, against him during his second campaign. Bush doesn't really have to do anything to get re-elected this time. In fact, it would be almost impossible for him to PO enough people between now and the election to end up losing.

362 posted on 12/30/2003 4:13:02 PM PST by templar
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To: Dane
I am dense..I knew that and theBC Moran story ,too.Thanks
363 posted on 12/30/2003 4:14:33 PM PST by MEG33 (We Got Him!)
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To: Teacher317
Veto Override vote passes the House BOTH times, and the Senate missed the Override by a handful each time. That Override thing... that's 67 Senators required, by the way, not just 50

If you knew anything about politics, that PBA override vote was a given for such Senators such as Feinstein and Lieberman. They could vote for the override knowing it wouldn't pass. The point is that it didn't pass, it lost. It's like the Red Sox getting 10 hits in a game, but still losing to the Yankees who got 7 hits. The Red Sox still lose since they didn't get as many players to home plate as the Yankees did.

But whatever, go on rant with your delusional rationalizations, you only dig yourself a deeper hole.

364 posted on 12/30/2003 4:14:54 PM PST by Dane
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To: GunsareOK
"I'm one of the "hard-line conservatives" who won't be voting for Bush."


The one thing that a proud Conservative WON'T do is to beg a RINO to vote Republican.

Maybe someone who has Bush's ear will print out your statement, and show it to the President, and he'll change all of this policies to suit you. Wow...what a concept.

Of course, if you had REALLY been a Republican and REALLY been paying attention, you'll know the "read my lips" debacle was made into something by first liar, bill clinton. The democRATic Congress got Elder Bush in a corner and he was forced to raise those taxes for other concessions...then they used that against him.

Either way, go vote for f**kin' Kerry.
365 posted on 12/30/2003 4:15:11 PM PST by FrankR
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To: !1776!
Congress is your problem, not the President. Did you hear the President call for renewal of the AWB? No. When COngress brought it up he said if they pass it he'll sign sign it. TIme for Congress to do their freaking job for once.

Gosh, I thought the President could veto a bill that crossed his desk. I didn't know he was magically bound to appove everything Congress sent his way.

Which party held the Presidency - according to you it's the most important part of the Government. That one in 4 sure helped there didn't it?

And which party took over control of both houses of Congress? "According to you it's the most important part of the Government." That "one in 4" helped just a little bit, didn't it, sport?

So you would rather just hand the nominations over to libs?

I am simply pointing out an indisputable fact - the appointment of high court justices by Republican Presidents is not the panacea you suggest. It is certainly no substitute for a President and a Congress that honor the Constitution...

...the problem is how that law is being interpreted as constitutional in the courts.

That is NOT a problem at all, if a President honors the Constitution and vetos the 'law' in the first place.

The point I was trying (in vain I guess) to make was that AWB is not the end all be all of issues, just a symptom of the larger problem you would rather ignore.

Not at all - we simply disagree on the nature of the problem. I see Republicans passing and signing liberal legislation as part of the problem. You apparently consider Republicans passing and signing liberal legislation to be part of the solution.

...Congress failed us and you put too much stock in a revolution that never figured out what really needed to be done to win.

And you ignore the President's constitutional power to veto legislation. The veto of bills like the AWB is precisely what needs "to be done to win."

I'd much rather try to fix the problems within the party of greatest opportunity than fight from the outside against a party in power that wants to crush my rights.

Oh, I'm sure that your unconditional support of RINO policies will help "fix the problems within the party." You betcha...

The winner of this election will be a reblican or a democrat. If you don't vote for a republican - your giving the democrat a free vote.

And if you automatically support everything the 'Stupid Party' offers up, you're giving the liberal a free vote. "Congratufreakinglations on your choice."

I'm sure RKBA will be much better off under a party with banning as part of it's freaking platform.

LOL! I repeat: if you want to live in a fantasy land, where a Republican signing gun control legislation is somehow better than a D@mocrat signing IDENTICAL gun control legislation, then "that is your choice, I'm just dissapointed that it could effect my rights in the long term."


366 posted on 12/30/2003 4:16:25 PM PST by Who is John Galt? ("COME AND TAKE IT!" - Battle of Gonzales, Texas Revolution, 1835)
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To: Who is John Galt?
What are you trying to say? Just curious...

Ah read it again,John :- ) How goes it?
367 posted on 12/30/2003 4:17:16 PM PST by gatorbait (Yesterday, today and tomorrow......The United States Army)
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To: Dane
I may be psychic. I predicted you appearance here a few hours before you arrived. The Freepmail to join GOP bots always reaches you quickly.
368 posted on 12/30/2003 4:17:16 PM PST by At _War_With_Liberals
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To: At _War_With_Liberals
Since you refute every single insightful contribution that I am making to this debate, why should I have to defend the fact that BUSH is the biggest spender of all time by every measure known to economics?

How does asking for facts backing up your claim of miniscule odds concerning the life expetancy of 70 - 80 year old supreme court justices relate to Bush's spending?

I am fairly certain I just wanted to know how you defined miniscule. To some it may be 10% others, .00001%. I was just curious.

Of course I expect you to back up this "fact" about as much as you backed up your plot on "Human Resource" costs, which you then called social program spending, but won't go out on a limb to say it is social program spending. Couldn't you have at said it was mislabeled?

whole GOP establishment is out to first marginalize, and then get rid of us. And you agree with that thinking. I'm not sure if you have a turd in your pocket, but this individual part of the GOP (me) is really just out to marginalize you. Not because you make sense, but because you rail against the capitalist pig corporations stepping all over the peasants...

I think you are a lib in sheeps clothing, and a bad liar.

We are 90% of the way down the road to a socialist state with totalitarian tendencies, and I am getting flamed for merely pointing it out.And ostracized by the admin. Even on FR... What the hell is going on in this country? Are you pissed that you couldn't get a night in the Lincoln Bedroom? Now the Administration is out to get you? WHo's next, little green men?

If this is not evidence that there are those that want to silence conservatives PERMANENTLY, I do not know what is. We will be a socialist nation soon... it is only a matter of when.

I don't want to silence conservative, or liberals for that matter. I do like pointing out people who claim to be one thing while their poor stepped on peasant words point to another (hatred of the capitalist pig) leaning.

369 posted on 12/30/2003 4:18:51 PM PST by !1776!
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To: MEG33; Lael
I am dense..I knew that and theBC Moran story ,too.Thanks

Nah don't be so critical of yourself, you were reponding to Lael's vile reply #333 of this thread.

370 posted on 12/30/2003 4:20:59 PM PST by Dane
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To: At _War_With_Liberals
I may be psychic. I predicted you appearance here a few hours before you arrived. The Freepmail to join GOP bots always reaches you quickly

Start your own psychic line and become the next Miss Cleo, it will probably have the same rate as accuracy(nil).

BTW, you are already wrong, haven't received a freepmail today.

371 posted on 12/30/2003 4:23:15 PM PST by Dane
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To: tbpiper
Take your blinders off...the war isn't just on terrorism. There is a war on our constitution and conservatism, something that many of you people fail to see or simply don't give a damn because you're so blinded by party loyalty.

I've supported the Republican Party since '68 and by support I don't mean just voting Republican. Not only have I made financial contributions I have actively campaigned for Republicans on a local, state and federal level. I might add I served as a State Representative as a Republican. Now, the Republican Party, lead by GW Bush is deserting me.

As far as me being shortsighted I think that our President is being shortsighted by abandoning conservative principles simply to get re-elected. Do you consider signing the perscription drugs benefits bill a conservative move? Are you in favor of EXPANDING federal programs? Do you support the Department of Education or the National Endowment of the Arts? Do you support CFR? Do you believe we should provide amnesty for illegal aliens? It appears our President believes in those things and if you believe in those things then your just another one of those "compassionate conservatives".
372 posted on 12/30/2003 4:24:21 PM PST by politicalwit (Compassionate Republicans=Zell Miller Democrats.)
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To: At _War_With_Liberals
I am not calling all conservatives fascists.

I am calling those who seem to think any President can do everything a tiny fraction of never-satisfied ideologues desire, regardless of what harm it brings to the nation as a whole, fascists.

I have been totally honest about how and why I came to FR, voted for Bush and will continue to oppose the real leftwing agenda. I am not pretending to be anyhting I am not.

You and your ilk do not control the conservative wing of the Republican Party. In fact, you do not control very much of anything at all and that is why you are so furious with GWB.

Condescend to whomever if that is the only way you can feel superior, but your faction is being rolled as we argue here by the real socialists every time you vow publicly or run a web site to convince others to vote for some loser of a 3rd party idiot who couldn't put together a voting coalition in Congress if his life depended on it.

It is precisely the compassionate and Christian nature of George Bush that has brought people like me into the Republican fold.

I cannot recall if it was you or someone agreeing w/you who railed on about Dawg being wealthy and Bush being an aristocrat and the fact that whomever it was didn't get enough of a tax cut, but that is the class envy card and the left knows how to play it to get populist hardheads to abandon any chance of incrementally gutting what they have laboriously built up as the socialist infrastructure over 60 years or more.

I have owned rural land for over 30 years. We are gun owners. We have been self-employed all our adult lives. We have come to see the total fraud of *a woman's right to choose*. We no longer support public education because it is not what it was when we were in school. We love America and want her protected.

We know we represent a large number of former leftists who loathe everything the transnational left stands for. We loathe it more than than those of you who have always been conservatives because we were personally duped and personally experienced the fascism on the left.

We will re-elect Bush and hopefully whomever runs against the left in 08.

BTW, it is a paleo tactic to call anyone who ever changed their mind a poseur.

I find your version of conservativism to be controlling, lacking in compassion and the perfect way to foment a revolution in America that will put the tranzis in power for all time. I think your sort desires a revolution, the bloodier the better. I applaud the conservatives who are puncturing your bombast. They are the sorts of individuals who drew me to the right.

You are the sort of individual who repelled me on the left.
373 posted on 12/30/2003 4:28:44 PM PST by reformedliberal
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To: princess leah
When we can't trust Bush to protect and believe in the Constitution how do you think we can trust him to select Judges who will?
374 posted on 12/30/2003 4:30:39 PM PST by LPM1888 (What are the facts? Again and again and again -- what are the facts? - Lazarus Long)
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To: politicalwit
Are you in favor of EXPANDING federal programs? Do you support the Department of Education or the National Endowment of the Arts? Do you support CFR? Do you believe we should provide amnesty for illegal aliens? It appears our President believes in those things and if you believe in those things then your just another one of those "compassionate conservatives"

Ok let's take your pet peeves one by one. The education bill at least has standards. it means that schools have to perform. Huh maybe with an increased majority in the Senate, vouchers may have a chance. As for CFR, that was a mine laid for him by the press, like it or not the general electorate doesn't care about it. As for illegal aliens, a problem that hasn't been addressed for years, what is your solution?

375 posted on 12/30/2003 4:31:13 PM PST by Dane
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To: !1776!
The odds are greatly in favor of activist judges staying alive another 5 years. Therefore, Bush will not appoint a single SC judge in the next 5 years.

If you want to bet on it for real, I'm open. I'll even give you even odds.
376 posted on 12/30/2003 4:31:57 PM PST by At _War_With_Liberals
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To: seamole
Thank you for exposing your anti-American, pro-genocide agenda for all to see.

Actually, it is Interesting to see just what venom is "projected" into one innocuous comment.

For your information and edification, I was thinking of that famous New Yorker cover artwork showing the country from a New York perspective, with the city streets of 9th, 10th, and 11th Avenues taking up 2/3 of thse cover, the rest of the country scrunched into 1/4 of the remaining space, with Japan in the far edge.

Google it, the print is available somewhere!

377 posted on 12/30/2003 4:32:05 PM PST by Lael (Bush to Middle Class: Send your kids to DIE in Iraq while I send your LIVELIHOODS to INDIA!)
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To: FrankR

Bush I was rolled and the hard right ate it up, voted for Perot and elected Clinton.

And the tranzis are still using that tactic.
378 posted on 12/30/2003 4:36:43 PM PST by reformedliberal
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To: Teacher317
I think it is the voters who have done wonders for conservatism.

The majority of the voters in the last presidential election voted for either Gore or Nadar. I think the voters as a group have done little for conservatism.

379 posted on 12/30/2003 4:39:26 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: GunsareOK
Then you are NO Conservative,harfline or otherwise, have NO idea about just how little you know/understand politics,and have wasted your time on FR.
380 posted on 12/30/2003 4:39:41 PM PST by nopardons
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