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Flynn: Dems ignore Catholics
Boston Herald ^ | December 31, 2003 | David R. Guarino

Posted on 01/01/2004 3:53:55 PM PST by NYer

Former Vatican Ambassador Raymond L. Flynn yesterday accused Democrats of ignoring a ``swing'' bloc of Catholic voters who could hand President Bush re-election next year.

     As Democratic presidential candidates spent another day criticizing Howard Dean as ill-prepared for the White House, Flynn chastised them for ``ducking'' real issues such as abortion and gay marriage.
     ``There is a forum for the black voters, there's another forum for the feminists and women voters, there's another candidate forum for organized labor,'' Flynn told the Herald. ``That doesn't happen with the most significant voting bloc in the country, the Catholic vote.''
     Flynn, in an opinion column published in the Manchester Union-Leader, said Democrats are writing off more than 40 percent of the Granite State's voters by ignoring Catholics.
     He said the Democrats skirt delicate issues such as government aid to parochial schools. ``They don't want these kinds of issues raised in a political campaign, so they ignore it,'' Flynn said.
     But Andrew Smith of the University of New Hampshire Survey Center said, ``Catholics don't vote as a bloc, they are as varied as Protestant voters or any other voters.''
     Meanwhile, Democratic challengers to Dean spent another day nit-picking the leader of the pack. In Iowa, U.S. Sen. John F. Kerry slammed Dean for mischaracterizing a vote he took on farm subsidies - claiming Dean mixed up Kerry with ex-Sen. Bob Kerrey of Nebraska.
     And U.S. Rep. Richard Gephardt took on the former Vermont governor's claim to be the only candidate from a ``farm state'' - noting that his native Missouri has far more farms than Vermont.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; catholic; catholicvote; christianvote; dems; election; gop; president; rayflynn; votingblock
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1 posted on 01/01/2004 3:53:55 PM PST by NYer
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To: NYer
Is Flynn new to this planet?
2 posted on 01/01/2004 4:00:09 PM PST by Texas Eagle
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To: american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; ...

Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility

Catholic Ping - let me know if you want on/off this list


3 posted on 01/01/2004 4:01:01 PM PST by NYer
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To: NYer
And then we have the Catholics in Name Only. (CINO)

Posting a politician and Catholic list of articles.
4 posted on 01/01/2004 4:09:02 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer
.....claiming Dean mixed up John Kerry with ex-Sen. Bob Kerrey of Nebraska.....

That's understandable.

Similarly, some people are confusing Howard Dean with James Dean.......both strange, excentric rebels with a cult-like followings.

5 posted on 01/01/2004 4:10:25 PM PST by Republic If You Can Keep It
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To: NYer
The Deadly Dozen

Canadian Prime Minister Taunts Church: "I Am A Catholic And For Abortion"
Catholic Church asks Tom Daschle to stop calling himself a Catholic
On Catholic Politicians and Faith
Vatican Urges Catholic Politicians to Vote Along Church Lines
Senator Santorum on Being Catholic and a Politician
William E. Simon, Sr. and Jr. Devout Catholics, Philanthropists and Politicians
Deadly Dozen senator taken to task over claims of Catholicism
THE BISHOP AND THE SENATOR [author links to FR thread regarding Daschle in her online column]
Blood On Their Hands: Exposing Pro-abortion Catholic Politicians
MI Gov Granholm Proclaims June "Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Pride Month"
Colorado Governor To Media:'WE LOVE OUR CHURCH' [Gov. Bill Owens
U.S. Senator Brownback and Commentator Dick Morris Join Catholic Church
PRIEST REFUSES COMMUNION TO KNEELING PRO-LIFE POLITICIAN [Richard Black, Virginia]
Kerry [Catholic} says he'll filibuster Supreme Court nominees who do not support abortion rights
Pope to MPs: Stop gay marriage
Vatican - Considerations regarding ... homosexual persons
CONFUSIONS ABOUT POLITICAL JUDGMENT AND THE MORAL LAW
Prelate says politicians who back abortion shouldn't go to Communion
Bishop draws fire for targeting Chrétien
Kennedy likens Vatican stance on gay unions to 'bigotry' (oh, go get a job, you little creep)
Ignorance or Malicious Intent? "No religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to..."
George Weigel on Authentic Catholic Citizenship, and the Duty of Catholic Politicians to Behave as Catholics
Conservative Catholics urge Church to challenge "dissenters"
[Robert F., Jr.] Kennedy to speak at Festival of Faiths (Environmentalism as religion)
Faithful Catholic Politicians
Catholic Bishops Eye Possible Crackdown of Pro-Abortion Pols
PETITION TO EX-COMMUNICATE PRO-ABORTION CATHOLIC ELECTED OFFICIALS
It is Time to Excommunicate the Politicians
Church vows to fight gay marriage: Catholics pressure pols
Should politicians toe their church line?
Church May Penalize Politicans
Catholic politicians facing dogmatic threat
Bishop appeals to Catholic lawmakers [Wisconsin]
New St. Louis Catholic Archbishop Warns Pro-Abortion Catholic Politicians of Excommunication.
Bishop Objected to AIDS Walk
Wisconsin Catholic Lawmakers Seek Victim Status In Feud With Bishop
Bishop Burke discusses the letters he sent to Catholic politicians
Congressman Places Internal Pro-Abortion Docs in Congressional Record
Flynn: Dems ignore Catholics

6 posted on 01/01/2004 4:11:34 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer
The only Catholic Link on the DNC site is to a virulently anti-Catholic cult!!!!

How anyone with moral values of any religious background can vote for the rats is mysterious.

7 posted on 01/01/2004 4:11:58 PM PST by FormerACLUmember (One man with courage makes a majority)
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To: NYer
** ``There is a forum for the black voters, there's another forum for the feminists and women voters, there's another candidate forum for organized labor,'' Flynn told the Herald. ``That doesn't happen with the most significant voting bloc in the country, the Catholic vote.''**

It will be interesting to track, but I think Flynn is wrong here. I believe we will see more Catholics (remember -- the Church (with the younger people) is getting more conservative.) voting Republican more and more!

8 posted on 01/01/2004 4:14:12 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer
Flynn is one of those near extinct, conservative Democrats.

A decent man in my opinion.

9 posted on 01/01/2004 4:17:12 PM PST by mware
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To: Texas Eagle
Is Flynn new to this planet?

He's apparently new to the idea that Catholics don't listen to the hierarchy any more, at least not as much as they used to. Back when he was an alter boy, the Pope and the cardinals and bishops exerted a mighty force over their flocks, it started falling apart in the 1970's. By the time I last attended a Catholic church as a member, I knew more Catholic men with a vasectomy (like myself) than non-Catholic men with one. One older guy at a Knights of Columbus after-meeting function (in the lounge of the local Mexican restaurant) acknowledged that a lot of the guys had rationalized it this way: better for them to commit one sin, one time, than to have their wives commit a little sin every day by taking the Pill.

Older Catholics who still think that JFK is President (or at least that's the way it oughta be) are firmly in the Rats' pockets, they don't stop long enough to think about abortion. As long as those nasty, Protestant Republicans are stopped at the polls, they don't care what Rat politicians do. I've met more that way than I care to count up.

10 posted on 01/01/2004 4:21:59 PM PST by hunter112
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To: NYer
Flynn belongs to a vanishing species: Irish Catholic politicians from Massachusetts who are loyal to their faith. God bless him. He is publishing this article only to annoy, because he knows that the Democrats can't even understand what he's talking about.

"What?" they'll say. "Isn't Teddy Kennedy a Catholic? Are we ignoring him?"
11 posted on 01/01/2004 4:22:25 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: NYer
They don't ignore Catholic voters, they just take the for granted and often for good reason.
12 posted on 01/01/2004 4:23:05 PM PST by CWOJackson
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To: NYer
Flynn, in an opinion column published in the Manchester Union-Leader, said Democrats are writing off more than 40 percent of the Granite State's voters by ignoring Catholics.

Stupid comment. Actually Catholics tend to be more pro gay marriage and pro abortion that Protestants do (although in the latter instance, the numbers are about even), at least if you count all nominal Catholics as Catholics, which clearly the 40% Catholic figure in New Hampshire that Flynn cited includes.

Is Flynn still drinking?

13 posted on 01/01/2004 4:24:24 PM PST by Torie
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To: FormerACLUmember
**The only Catholic Link on the DNC site is to a virulently anti-Catholic cult!!!!**

It figures!
14 posted on 01/01/2004 4:24:36 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer
If a life long Rat, like Raybo, smells the decaying politics of the Rat party listen, Ray may be a fool in some ways, but he is a good indicator of which way the political winds are blowing, he knows his constituency.
15 posted on 01/01/2004 4:26:16 PM PST by Little Bill (The pain of being a Red Sox Fan.)
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To: hunter112
Have you checked out the changes in Vatican II.

You are always welcome to come back to the Church. Many things have changed; I can't go into detail here, but I would recommend attending a returning Catholics group in your area.

We sponsor one called "Catholics Can Come Home Again."
16 posted on 01/01/2004 4:26:58 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Cicero
I recall when he was interviewed by EWTN, he really went after Gore and Clinton for their stand on the life issue.
17 posted on 01/01/2004 4:28:03 PM PST by mware
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To: Salvation
Thanks for the great links.
18 posted on 01/01/2004 4:28:19 PM PST by doug from upland (First Saddam; next Osama; finally, on to Hillary)
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To: Salvation
**The only Catholic Link on the DNC site is to a virulently anti-Catholic cult!!!!**

The Catholic League has been trying for months to get the DNC to take Catholics For Free Choice off their web site as a Catholic site.

19 posted on 01/01/2004 4:30:52 PM PST by mware
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To: NYer
Dear Mr. Flynn, spend less time on you abhorrent Pro-Life nonsense and maybe rethink the benefits of having a few more pedophile priests.

Then the Dems will pay you guys a little more attention.
20 posted on 01/01/2004 4:35:37 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: NYer
The democrats cannot address Catholic issues, because doing so would alienate too many of the democratic party's core constituency groups (esp the feminists)
21 posted on 01/01/2004 4:36:03 PM PST by Paleoguy
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To: Salvation
Thanks for the invite, but I'm completely through with any organized religion. No being powerful enough to create the universe, and set up all the mechanisms necessary to keep it running, needs me to do, say, or believe anything to keep it all going.

As far as changes in the Catholic church go, do they still teach that people go to hell for masturbation? They still would have a massive problem with my three divorces!

22 posted on 01/01/2004 4:36:31 PM PST by hunter112
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To: mware
He was Ambassador to the Vatican under clinton, as I recall, but was forced to resign when his pro-life stances became too outspoken.
23 posted on 01/01/2004 4:41:43 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: hunter112
One older guy at a Knights of Columbus after-meeting function (in the lounge of the local Mexican restaurant) acknowledged that a lot of the guys had rationalized it this way: better for them to commit one sin, one time, than to have their wives commit a little sin every day by taking the Pill.

These men did not understand what a sin really is. The sin was not confined to the day they had the vasectomy. Every time they congratulated themselves on their cleverness, and were glad that they'd had the vasectomy, they were ratifying the sin. In a sense, they were committing it over again each time they ratified it again with their will.

24 posted on 01/01/2004 4:41:57 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: mware
I say let the Dems keep their link to Catholics for a Free Choice. All these attempts to nibble away at the Dem Party around the edges are misguided. The Dem Party is the party of committed baby-killers. It cannot be reformed. It must be destroyed. Does anybody go around in a funk because the Nazi Party has objectionable links on their website (as they no doubt do)?
25 posted on 01/01/2004 4:48:15 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan
I say let the Dems keep their link to Catholics for a Free Choice

I hear what you are saying but I do not like the idea of my religion being misrepresented by another organization, especially one like, Catholics For Free Choice.

26 posted on 01/01/2004 4:52:28 PM PST by mware
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To: mware
The dems do not ignore Catholics, they have chosen sides. The dems directly oppose the Vatican's stance on abortion. The dems have determined that they would rather have the support of the feminist left rather than strict Catholics. As said earlier - freedom of choice.
27 posted on 01/01/2004 5:06:52 PM PST by Dutch Boy
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To: NYer
Seems Flynn is threatening he will not deliver the Catholic vote.
28 posted on 01/01/2004 5:31:28 PM PST by luvbach1
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To: NYer
The 'Rats are too controlled by militant secularists to be serious about Catholics before the November elections.
29 posted on 01/01/2004 5:52:34 PM PST by Clintonfatigued
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To: NYer
Christian Dean wouldn't! sarcasm!
30 posted on 01/01/2004 5:58:30 PM PST by winker
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To: NYer
Is this the best we can expect from the "Boston Herald"? I doubt we are the most significant voting bloc in the country, but we ARE as varied as any group out there (which makes me wonder if we ARE a group when it comes to politics.) My sister is a Catholic. I am a Catholic. When we come to worship, we are as one. The rest of the time....... nope. We all have to live according to our own conscience, all the while remembering that this life is not the end of the line.
31 posted on 01/01/2004 8:10:14 PM PST by Just Lori (We're all in this together.)
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To: NYer
And U.S. Rep. Richard Gephardt took on the former Vermont governor's claim to be the only candidate from a ``farm state'' - noting that his native Missouri has far more farms than Vermont.

If Dean said this then he is truly a whacko. Five or six counties in Missouri have more farms than Vermont has square mileage.

Vermont is a tiny state.

32 posted on 01/01/2004 8:37:12 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army and Proud of It!)
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To: Salvation
On the home page of the Democratic National Committee’s (DNC) website, democrats.org, there is a link to organizations of interest. Last week, under the “Catholic” heading, there was one group listed, Catholics for a Free Choice (CFFC).

Catholic League president William Donohue spoke to this matter today: “I have written to DNC chairman Terry McAuliffe imploring him to ‘act quickly and decisively by removing Catholics for a Free Choice from the DNC’s links of interest organizations.’ The very fact that this group was the only Catholic listing on its website until this week is mind-boggling: it suggests that the DNC believes its Catholic base is led by Frances Kissling. The DNC knows CFFC is bogus yet continues to provide cover for it.

“It is flatly wrong to tag CFFC as merely a ‘pro-choice’ group of ex-Catholics. Kissling has openly admitted that it is her goal to ‘overthrow’ the Catholic Church. That is why she works so hard to subvert the Church by attempting to get the Holy See kicked out of the U.N. Twice the U.S. bishops have condemned CFFC as a fraud, yet the DNC amazingly gives legitimacy to this anti-Catholic front group.

33 posted on 01/01/2004 9:30:52 PM PST by FormerACLUmember (One man with courage makes a majority)
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To: Salvation
Flynn's been a democrat all his life, but in 2000 he endorsed Bush.

No Catholic belongs in the democrat party and voting for a democrat is beyond this Catholic's comprehension.
34 posted on 01/01/2004 9:34:28 PM PST by onyx (Your secrets are safe with me and all my friends.)
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To: Bluntpoint
Apparently you have never seen this site.

Scroll down to check the number of dead -- it can change right before your eyes.

35 posted on 01/01/2004 11:12:28 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Arthur McGowan
Very well said!
36 posted on 01/01/2004 11:15:05 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: mware
Have you gone to Our Lady's Warriors to check out the dissident organizations? Outstanding site.

http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/
37 posted on 01/01/2004 11:17:37 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: FormerACLUmember
Catholics for a Free Choice is a dissenting organization.

Go to dissent -- http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/

Catholics for a Free Choice (CFFC) Promotes artificial contraceptive "rights," including abortion. Their focus is the "intersection of Catholic teaching and public policy." Bishop Bruskewitz excommunicated those that belong to this group in his Diocese. Member of Catholic Organizations for Renewal. They have been condemned by the National Conference of Catholic Bishops (NCCB).

38 posted on 01/01/2004 11:21:36 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: FormerACLUmember
The only Catholic Link on the DNC site is to a virulently anti-Catholic cult!!!!

That is correct, I went to the DNC website for the first time, clicked Links, Religious and found "Catholics for a Free Choice". So it seems like the Democrats are Only interested in Pro-Abortion Catholics.

It follows then, those not following the Pope vote Democrat. Hmmm, shouldn't the church make efforts to correct those not following the Pope, including our Politicians?

39 posted on 01/02/2004 5:52:33 AM PST by sr4402
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To: Salvation
I believe we will see more Catholics (remember -- the Church (with the younger people) is getting more conservative.) voting Republican more and more!

My daughter turns 18 this year and is looking forward to voting in the Fall. She can't stand the Democrats!

40 posted on 01/02/2004 9:22:05 AM PST by NYer
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To: hunter112; Salvation
They still would have a massive problem with my three divorces!

The only way to know is to ask a priest. Remember the parable of the lost sheep.

Luke
Chapter 15
1
1 The tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to listen to him,
2
but the Pharisees and scribes began to complain, saying, "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them."
3
So to them he addressed this parable.
4
"What man among you having a hundred sheep and losing one of them would not leave the ninety-nine in the desert and go after the lost one until he finds it?
5
And when he does find it, he sets it on his shoulders with great joy
6
and, upon his arrival home, he calls together his friends and neighbors and says to them, 'Rejoice with me because I have found my lost sheep.'
7
I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.

Here is a place to start. Click on the link. ONCE CATHOLIC


41 posted on 01/02/2004 9:35:05 AM PST by NYer
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To: Arthur McGowan
These men did not understand what a sin really is.

Yes, I realize that they were rationalizing it away like a pack of lawyers. But, they (and I) were just doing something that every other branch of Christendom, and most other world religions find responsible, they were taking effective means of limiting their family size to what they could afford.

The idea that we were put on this earth solely to be breeding machines, in a world of over five billion people already, was one of the thousand reasons I had to leave the Catholic church. The same kind of justifications those men made for doing what they did two decades ago, I have seen in the recent pedophile priest scandal, so the attitude that was displayed by the laity extends to the clergy.

42 posted on 01/02/2004 1:36:11 PM PST by hunter112
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To: NYer
Thanks, but no thanks, I got tired of being a sheep.
43 posted on 01/02/2004 2:08:35 PM PST by hunter112
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To: hunter112
You have posited a false alternative: a) either use contraception; b) be a breeding machine. The third alternative: Bring sexual activity under the control of reason.

Every single Christian church taught that the use of contraception is a species of sodomy, until 1930, when the Anglicans "approved" its use. Now they are ordaining sodomite bishops and persecuting those who resist.

44 posted on 01/02/2004 2:22:13 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan
Bring sexual activity under the control of reason.

I guess that could mean letting one's marriage fall into being a sexless relationship, no thanks. How about the concept of bringing the consequences of sexual activity under control? That's all conception control is. Comparisons of contraception to sodomy are going to give sodomy a better name, something the gay marriage folks are already trying to do. I guess that's why the SCOTUS had to create privacy out of thin air, because the Connecticut legislature used religious thinking to define what a married couple could do in their own bedrooms. Now, we have that same privacy concept being expanded in ways that no one thought possible in 1967.

45 posted on 01/02/2004 2:55:43 PM PST by hunter112
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To: mware
You only have to remember how Pennsylvania Gov. Bob Casey was treated at the Democratic Convention in New York. They would not allow a sitting Gov. to speak. They hate pro life candidates or supporters. I felt bad for Bob Casey because he was a decent man and he was treated like dirt.
46 posted on 01/02/2004 3:00:21 PM PST by oldironsides
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To: Texas Eagle; mware; Bluntpoint; hunter112; onyx; NYer; Salvation

Ray Flynn was Clinton's only pro-life apointee as U.S. Ambassador to the Vatican from 1993-97 and was Mayor of Boston from 1984-93.

He supported President Bush in 2000 and will vote for him again in 2004.

What, I think, he was saying in the article was that he was chastizing Catholic Politicians for selling out their faith for votes and the democat party for ignoring the Catholics and the Catholic Vote, deep down he wants his party to be the way it was, pro-life, pro-Catholic, blue collar, etc.

And what he really wants, is a united Catholic Vote. He's got a lot of work ahead of him thanks to the liberal bishops and Catholics in general.


47 posted on 07/28/2004 9:43:29 AM PDT by Coleus (Brooke Shields killed her children? http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1178497/posts)
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Flynn: Democrats Exclude Catholics
Dave Eberhart, NewsMax.com
Wednesday, July 28, 2004
President of Your Catholic Voice, former mayor of Boston, former president of the U.S. Conference of Mayors, U.S. Ambassador to the Vatican during the Clinton Administration, and author of “The Accidental Pope” and “John Paul II” - Ray Flynn is a man on a mission.

In appearances around the country, in articles on Your Catholic Voice (YCV) Website and in interviews on Meet the Press, Nightline, Face the Nation, This Week, CNN, MSNBC and Fox News, this man who describes himself as a “loyal Catholic American first,” wants to re-enfranchise the sixty-two million Catholics in the United States – too many of which he says have become “politically homeless.”

Unabashedly pro-life, pro-family and pro-needy, Flynn has been president since May 2003 of YCV, a non-partisan independent Catholic lay organization dedicated to “motivating, educating and activating Catholic citizens for political and social participation.”

His mantra: “Catholics have become spectators in American politics, not active players.”

Flynn is out to change all that, but suggests that he doesn’t get much help from the Catholic politicians. “Catholic politicians feel they have to compromise their Catholic principles and values to get ahead, he told NewsMax in an exclusive interview.

"The popular line of the day for Catholic elected officials on issues like abortion and same-sex marriage is, ‘I’m personally opposed, but I don’t want to impose my own values and beliefs on other people.’"

"Amazingly, this has become the political response that satisfies both Catholic voters and opponents to Church teaching."

Although not taking specific aim at the nation’s most prominent Catholic politician these days – John Kerry – the description fits. Kerry is the first Roman Catholic from a major political party to seek the presidency in 44 years.

Although Flynn has not formally endorsed Kerry, he has expressed the belief that Kerry’s campaign needs a Catholic movement - a reaching out to Catholic voters.

Flynn maintains it could make a deciding difference in battlegrounds like Ohio, Wisconsin and New Mexico – states with large Catholic populations. Nearly 20 percent of Ohioans are Catholic, and the ratio is higher in cities like Cleveland and Cincinnati.

Flynn suggests that Kerry could serve himself better by being more overt with his own faith. Instead, the candidate rarely gets personal about his faith on the campaign trail, stressing instead his strong belief in separation of church and state.

And Flynn’s complaint extends not just to the candidate but to the party he represents. “At one time, the Democratic Party fought for social and economic justice and was the party of blue-collar, working-class Catholic families," he said. "Today, the Democratic Party is controlled by wealthy, left-wing activists whose extreme political agenda, for the most part, excludes loyal, faithful and patriotic American Catholics.”

As president of a nonpartisan, tax-exempt organization, Flynn has been careful in choosing his words.

However, when Kerry last year suggested Pope John Paul II “crossed the line” by instructing Catholic politicians to block legalization of gay marriage, Flynn, a great admirer of the Pope, was pushed over the edge. “For Kerry to attack and address the Holy Father, the revered moral leader of over one billion Catholics worldwide, in that way was highly disrespectful and cynical.

"If a candidate for President does not understand that the family is the foundation and source of stability for society, I think he is out of touch with mainstream Americans.”

But candidate Kerry may just be between a rock and a hard place when it comes to defining the role of his faith in his candidacy. Flynn says, “It’s different to 40 years ago. JFK, as a Catholic, had to convince non-Catholics that he would not take orders from the Pope. The challenge for Kerry is to convince Catholics that he is faithful to the values and traditions of the Catholic Church.”

Although Flynn laments that instead of attending civic and church meetings, Catholics are shopping in the malls or watching athletic events on TV, he does see hope on the horizon.

“Much to my surprise, young adults are getting involved more than I’ve ever seen before. I’ve seen it in San Francisco, Boston and cities throughout the United States.

"I also see it on college campuses — like Harvard and the University of San Francisco. It’s truly amazing — the sense of commitment these young Catholics women and men have.

”These are young people who have been positively influenced by the moral leadership of Pope John Paul II and are not afraid to get involved.

"A positive movement of young Catholics is building, not only in the United States, but also in many parts of the world. I personally saw the impact that Pope John Paul II has had on young people in my many trips with him over the years.”

In the run-up to the November elections, these are some of the important hearts and minds that Kerry must capture, says Flynn.

48 posted on 07/28/2004 9:46:32 AM PDT by Coleus (Brooke Shields killed her children? http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1178497/posts)
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To: hunter112

One older guy at a Knights of Columbus after-meeting function (in the lounge of the local Mexican restaurant) acknowledged that a lot of the guys had rationalized it this way: better for them to commit one sin, one time, than to have their wives commit a little sin every day by taking the Pill. >>>

It's not a one-time sin, every snipped Catholic male or tied female commits a mortal sin each time they have sex since they are preventing procreation and going against God's will. Genesis 38:8-10

The Cathechism says:

"...every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible is intrinsically evil." CCC 2370

So basically, anything a person does to block the possibility of life-giving that occurs during the sexual act, is wrong. It inhibits the total giving of yourself to your spouse, and totally shuts the door on God's involvement in this aspect of your life, which might at some point, be to have another child.

It's also a matter of surrendering to God. It's like saying "God, you can have every aspect of my life, I give myself totally to you, except for my sperm (or ovaries and uterus) -- those are mine."

The Bible is very clear on this in Deut 23:2 St. John Crysostom said that said that it is a satanic mulitation that is a slander to God's creation and that preventing a human soul from ever existing is worse than murder.

St. Augustine said take from marriage what marriage is and preventing children creates spouses that are joined in seduction not love. If the deed is done and you didn't know that it was a mortal sin it isn't a mortal sin but you must do everything in your power to get it reversed now that you know. This is God's world and we are His people we have no right to alter His plans.

Encyclical of Pope Paul VI on the regulation of birth
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/p...e-vitae_en.html

Catholics "who, for serious reasons and with due respect to moral precepts, decide not to have additional children for either a certain or an indefinite period of time," are permitted to use the Natural Family Planning (NFP) method (i.e., abstain from sex during fertile period).

See this web page to learn more about NFP: http://www.ccli.org/


49 posted on 07/28/2004 9:58:18 AM PDT by Coleus (Brooke Shields killed her children? http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1178497/posts)
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To: NYer

bump to the top


50 posted on 07/28/2004 10:02:33 AM PDT by timestax
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