President Bush Proposes New Temporary Worker Program [Transcript]

The White House ^ | Jan 7, 2004 | President George W. Bush

[Torie]

How about for those that want to turn the blue card into green, that they get bonus points if they can pass a written proficiency test in English? That might create an incentive for blue card holders to make their major hobby learning English. Just a thought.

Your posts are excellent Southack, but having Freeped for about 3 hours now, I know this plan is DOA (not because of Freeper posts and their opinions, but because of the thread articles). The status quo will rule. The essential lynchpin of the Bush plan is simply too controversial (temporary workers working at bad wages, and keeping those kinds of jobs at bad wages). Ya, I know, that is what the status quo does, but sometimes, rather than a society facing itself in the mirror, better to keep it all under the mattress.

[CalKat]

Uh, if they're returning permanently, they're not renewing their blue cards and coming back for another three year stint, are they? Nowhere does it say they have to return after three years, then come back after the blue card is renewed for another three years, which is what you said in the post I replied to. Bush just said the three year period is renewable -- he didn't say they had to go back to their home country to renew. It would seem logical that they will apply for their renewal while they are working at their present jobs, since they have to have a job to renew.

[Tempest]

I thought that this article made a very just and fair arguement against Bush's proposal regarding illegal immigrants today.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1053294/posts

[McGavin999]

Take away all their 'freebies'. Actually fine the illegal employers (existing laws), & others might have second thoughts about employing illeglas.

The first has been tried (remember proposition 187?) and the second is a problem because you have no way of knowing who is illegal. If you try to prosecute someone they will string it out in court long enough to be under an administration who will pardon them. Or, they will claim that common law has taken over because the law was never consistantly enforced. That is why a new law is needed. It spells out the rules clearly, offers a legal way to address the current situation, and if the employers STILL break the law there will be no arguement if they are fined and imprisoned.

[Happy2BMe]

I think Dubya is in for the fight of his political life on this one.

He may well lose more votes among his traditional support base than he will pick up from Mexican voters.

Why make new laws to correct illegal immigration when the laws already on the books would work perfectly in our gubmint only had the integrity to enforce them.

If the old laws don't work, neither will the new ones.

This will come back to haunt, and haunt, and haunt, and ..

[Southack]

I disagree. What Bush proposed today does not provide a new incentive for illegals to come here *outside* of Bush's plan. They can apply for legal admission here from their home country, or if they are already here they can pay a fine, Register, and apply for their 3 year blue card.

"Sure it does. It's not the first Amnesty he's proposed, and it won't be the last."

Bush's new plan doesn't provide illegals with a *new* incentive to avoid our laws. On the contrary, he is holding out a carrot for the illegals to finally *comply* with our laws.

Those who comply will get 3 year visas and no hassles from INS raids. Those who don't comply will be re-living their days of status quo INS nightmares, loan headaches, and all that goes with living off of the grid, plus risking their entire future here if they do get caught (something that is much more likely to happen if our resources are concentrating on only a few remaining or new illegals rather than on 8 million old ones).

[Southack]

"It's not a plea bargain, it's a fee for Amnesty services."

I disagree. The fine is waived for those who return to their home countries (i.e. self-deportation) to apply for their blue cards. Those who stay here illegally have to Register and pay their fine for trespassing. That's a de facto plea bargain for those who choose to accept it.

Most will.

[Happy2BMe]

"Our current laws have been ignored so long that lawyers and activist groups get these people off. With new rules in place, they can't say "this is the way it's always done".

If the old laws (perfectly good laws) didn't work, what makes the "new" laws any more enforceable?

[Happy2BMe]

"This is a temporary workers permit."

What does the word "renewable" mean to you?

[Southack]

C#278

[pooh fan]

I don't disagree he may have intimated a desire to do something about the immigration issue before he was elected AND before 9/11...that little detail changed everything for me and the nation @ large.

I confronted Hugh Hewitt just last week on his radio show about this very issue and he indicated that I was out of line to do so, because it meant a vote/support for Dean. Now thats a repulsive thought to a registered Republican. But equally repulsive is the idea of continuing to reward illegal behavior.

I thought the whole idea behind NAFTA was to increase commerce & thereby wealth for Mexico. That country remains corrupt and now American taxpayers will be supporting even more of their economic refugees. And don't tell me they will pay into the system; at minimum wage jobs, they will pull more out than they will put in. AND be elegible for Medicare/Medi-Cal and the like.

And about all those alleged jobs illegals take that Americans won't: Why is it we can't require people on welfare to work for their $$ but taxpayers are required to pay the entire tab for them??? It just ain't right, I'm tellin' ya'!!

[Happy2BMe]

What have you seen mentioned so far in the "new laws" addressing the rule that if an illegal has a child here the parents are entitled to say and practically guaranteed citizenship?

I don't recall Bush mentioning anything about this.

[CalKat]

I did see #278 -- that's what I was responding to. See my #282 -- Bush did not say they had to return to their home countries to renew their blue cards.

[Happy2BMe]

"I'm speechless."

Me too.

This whole thing has the potential to explode like an A-Bomb over Hiroshima.

[Southack]

"If the old laws (perfectly good laws) didn't work, what makes the "new" laws any more enforceable?"

Registration.

To play under the new rules, 8 million illegals have to finally register with our government (something that we gun owners positively refuse to do because Registration empowers the government over people).

Without this new plan, our government doesn't know where all 8 million illegals are located. Once they register, we will know...and that changes everything.

[Southack]

c#278

[Sabertooth]

That's a de facto plea bargain for those who choose to accept it.

It's only a plea bargain if things return to the pre-crtiminal status quo. For that to happen, the Illegals would have to leave and return to their own lands.

That's not what's happening with President Bush's Amnesty.

[Southack]

"What does the word "renewable" mean to you?"

See post #278.

[Southack]

"It's only a plea bargain if things return to the pre-crtiminal status quo. For that to happen, the Illegals would have to leave and return to their own lands."

See post #278. Bush's new plan specifically addresses compelling illegals to return to their home countries once their 3 year visas expire.

Also, a plea bargain doesn't have to return the world to its pre-crime state. Killers can't bring their victims back to life, but yet even some murders are plea bargained.

[McGavin999]

It means that you can renew it :o)

It still doesn't get you any closer to being a citizen. You have to have a green card to do that and there are only so many slots available for legal immigration.

If they ARE working at jobs that no American has applied for, and they ARE paying taxes, and if they make sure they are NOT eligible for the EIC, and they make sure they know that voting in an election is ILLEGAL and they will instantly be deported if they do it, they can renew all they want.

Remember, if there is no job, they must go home. And we can enforce it because we will know who they are instead of just guessing and spending all our time in court defending the police who try to arrest them.