Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Germany Delays 9/11 Verdict, New Witness Found
Reuters ^ | January 21 2004 | Philip Blenkinsop

Posted on 01/21/2004 9:18:50 AM PST by knighthawk

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-84 last
To: Pan_Yans Wife
thnx
51 posted on 01/22/2004 8:13:21 AM PST by nuconvert ( "It had only one fault. It was kind of lousy.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: nuconvert
oh come on now folks!!! we all know that dubya was behind the 9-11 attack...remember the german itel officer that said bush did it with remote control?....seriously my insticts tell me the germans are trying to find a way of letting this guy go! hope im wrong on this tho
52 posted on 01/22/2004 8:18:54 AM PST by rrrod
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: Angelus Errare
Hamid Reza Zakiri (Zakeri)!

This isn't his real name. (supposedly)
53 posted on 01/22/2004 8:26:46 AM PST by nuconvert ( "It had only one fault. It was kind of lousy.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: rrrod
If they decide Zakeri isn't credible, then they'll let Mzoudi off.

I can't decide if he's credible or not.
54 posted on 01/22/2004 8:34:17 AM PST by nuconvert ( "It had only one fault. It was kind of lousy.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: JohnathanRGalt
The forces of darkness and depravity herald a totalitarian future of no joy.

Let's see how the Hajj transpires this year.

Jihadis have to make a play for either Pakistan, the House of Saud, or both.
55 posted on 01/22/2004 9:31:32 AM PST by swarthyguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: swarthyguy; Ernest_at_the_Beach
Wall Street's spreading the rumor we got OBL. I'm helping spread it: ernest_at_the_beach infected me with it via CNBC.
56 posted on 01/22/2004 9:39:23 AM PST by txhurl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: longjack
Thanks for the translation.
57 posted on 01/22/2004 12:17:54 PM PST by Dog ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our Country")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: aristeides
I just found the freep version here: Al-Qaida tied to Iran intelligence, military: Models of WTC, Pentagon at Tehran spy base
58 posted on 01/22/2004 12:43:07 PM PST by Prince Charles
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Dog
Thanks for the translation. You're welcome. Anytime.

I wished I had seen the ping earlier.

longjack

59 posted on 01/22/2004 1:59:27 PM PST by longjack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: longjack; Shermy; swarthyguy; Angelus Errare
New article from today in Der Spiegel: Der merkwürdige Zeuge "N-941-H" [The Remarkable Witness "N-941-H]. Clearly some people doubt the witness's credibility. But it's also becoming clear to people how important a matter it would be if he's telling the truth.
60 posted on 01/22/2004 5:14:46 PM PST by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: DoctorZIn
Ping.
61 posted on 01/22/2004 5:16:45 PM PST by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: aristeides
Clearly some people doubt the witness's credibility. But it's also becoming clear to people how important a matter it would be if he's telling the truth.

I'm unclear why it's important for the actual guy on trial.

62 posted on 01/22/2004 6:13:48 PM PST by Shermy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: Shermy
I'm unclear why it's important for the actual guy on trial.

According to these latest articles, the German prosecuters have a circumstantial case against Mzoudi as accomplice to murder re: 9/11, but one that isn't complete.

Most observers were ready for an acquittal before this witness's testimony was entered as evidence at the very last moment.

This new testimony tidies up the prosecuter's case in that it represents the combining link in the other seemingly unrelated pieces of evidence the prosecuters had.

Mzoudi was the messenger between the organizers, the middlemen and the perpertrators. Mzoudi knew the codes. Without Zakeri's testimony it would appear Mzoudi knew the other parties, but there was no evidence that he knew them for the specific pupose of planning the 9/11 attacks.

HTH

longjack

63 posted on 01/23/2004 1:35:56 AM PST by longjack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: aristeides; Dog; Angelus Errare
Thanks for the ping.

This seems to be getting 'curiouser and curiouser', doesn't it?

These are some points I find pertinent from skimming over several articles from different German sites:

The issue of Zakeri's, a pseudonym [Deckname], from what I've read, demanding payment is casting doubt on his credibility. I've read he asked for 1.2 million when he went to the U.S. embassy in Azerbian in 2001. The German reports vary, some say he wants money in return for giving out more information in this case, others say he he's only concerned about living expenses.

The article aristeides pinged me to says Zakeri is a publicity hound. He had been giving reports on both Arabic and Western TV saying Iran wasn't involved, then suddenly told "Insight" magazine in the summer of 2003 that he had known of the 9/11 plots.

The German prosecuter who is interviewing Zakeri, Jost, is saying that Zakeri was able to accurately describe the particulars of the Mykonos bombing in Berlin in 1992, in which 4 Iranian opposition figures were killed. Jost presents this as a corroboration of Zakeri's credibility.

Jost is saying that Zakeri's ID in the Iranian secret service, "N-941-H", checks out (Thus the explanation of the article's title).

Zakeri was known by the CIA, according to Zakeri's own admission. Zakeri says the CIA used him while he was still in service in Iran. German and French information services knew of him as well. This is a dead end for the courts, the article says, because those agencies are and will continue to be mum regarding their sources.

The German court is concerned, anyway, since these revelations by German prosecuter Jost has opened up a great deal of highly confidential information from the inner workings of the usually strictly confidential German secret service to public scrutiny.

Jost, to further complicate matters, didn't refer any of Zakeri's testimany to the German authorities responsible for collecting 9/11 information. Zakeri became known to the 9/11 agency only through happenchance when a member of 9/11 was present during a questioning session. Jost claims he didn't think about having to inform the 9/11 people. The judge isn't buying Jost's explanation.

The judge wants to hear Zakeri's testimony himself next Thursday.

longjack

64 posted on 01/23/2004 2:25:48 AM PST by longjack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: longjack; Shermy; swarthyguy; Angelus Errare
Trial told of Iran links to al-Qaeda.
65 posted on 01/23/2004 4:31:13 PM PST by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: aristeides
Read somewhere that a meeting took place between binladin and the iranians in may 2001 as per the Iranian intel guy.

Pretty explosive stuff.

66 posted on 01/23/2004 4:33:51 PM PST by swarthyguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: All
According to this story, Mysterious witness in German Sept 11 trial accuses Iran in attacks , the person at the Tehran air base on May 4, 2001 was bin Laden's eldest son. Supposedly he met with Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, former president Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani and three other ayatollahs.
67 posted on 01/23/2004 4:34:46 PM PST by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: All; swarthyguy; Shermy; Angelus Errare
On May 10, 2001, Cuban President Fidel Castro urged Iran to help defeat the United States "as you toppled the shah" in 1979.
68 posted on 01/23/2004 4:44:33 PM PST by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: swarthyguy; aristeides; marron
Hmmm...

Assume the meeting with Osama's son is true...there are other explanations...like Iranian diplomacy with Afghanistan, over which Osama was a kind of ruler...or deals on jihadi transportation to Causasus, etc.

I recall Khatami seemingly shocked with 9/11.

And lots of Iranians want a reason to nail the Mullahs, as if there weren't enough reasons...
69 posted on 01/23/2004 4:46:09 PM PST by Shermy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: All
Story on Castro here.
70 posted on 01/23/2004 4:48:14 PM PST by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: Shermy
Just my own suspicious self about anything that deflects attention from PakSaudi.

It was head of the ISI Gen. Mahmoud in DC that day who'd wired money via KSM/Omar Sheikh to Atta.

Kinda mysterious and convenient this guy comes along, vindicating the Arab suspect in Germany and shifting suspicion to the Iranians.
71 posted on 01/23/2004 4:49:36 PM PST by swarthyguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: Shermy
The mystery witness says the meeting was "to finalize the plans" for the 9/11 attacks.
72 posted on 01/23/2004 4:49:51 PM PST by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: swarthyguy; longjack
The witness, if he's telling the truth, incriminates -- rather than vindicates -- the Arab on trial in Germany.
73 posted on 01/23/2004 4:50:51 PM PST by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: aristeides; All
This information, if true (and we had best get our intel boys to An Najaf to interview this guy before some al-Qaeda has him shot) means that the Iranian government has absolutely no exit route to these charges - you don't get higher than Khamenei and Rafsanjani in the Iranian hierarchy.
74 posted on 01/23/2004 4:50:51 PM PST by Angelus Errare
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: aristeides
OK, one of the articles spoke about this throwing the state's case off.
75 posted on 01/23/2004 4:53:03 PM PST by swarthyguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: Angelus Errare
AFP, May 10, 2001

Iran and Cuba bolster ties, strengthen anti-US solidarity

76 posted on 01/23/2004 5:02:56 PM PST by Shermy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: txflake; Ernest_at_the_Beach
Wall Street's spreading the rumor we got OBL. I'm helping spread it: ernest_at_the_beach infected me with it via CNBC.

It goes to show how thick-skinned we FReepers are, where your notice doesn't get much notice. I checked with my sources at the Pentagon, and they deny that they are denying any alleged capture of OBL, or UBL, or ElvisBL.

It's a nice thought, though. Don't give up; we are all hoping it will play out eventually this year. Perhaps Dubya himself will discover Osama hiding in a "spider-hole" on the back lawn of the White House. Of course, to make it complete, ol' Dubya will be in his cowboy boots, taking a leak on the lawn when he notices the liquid disappearing into a crack in the lawn. He pries open the trapdoor, sees OBL, drenched and crouching in a sinister fashion as he mixes up a new batch of anthrax while dialing up Al-Jazeera on his super-secret camel-powered phone... (I can't go on; it's too...stupid.)
--Slip

77 posted on 01/23/2004 5:18:40 PM PST by Mr_Slippery ("We can remember it for you wholesale" (Historical Revisionist Society))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: aristeides
Absolutely incriminates, thus the delay to re-enter evidence gathering phase.

To be honest, though, one of your links says the German media has reported Zakeri has talked of meeting with the Ayatollahs et al., but I haven't seen that written anywhere on German sites. If someone has, please ping me.

Of course, I don't presume to look at everything. That is a major statement, though, and I would think "Spiegel" and Co. would have picked up on it.

I've seen some reporting that the German and US intelligence guys weren't very cooperative with the trial. Also that they wanted Mzoudi to walk in December in the hope he'd make a bee-line to his terrorist friends.

This new info was sprung on the eve of Mzoudi's probable acquital, by an German intelligence guy (Jost) who wasn't too interested in letting the new German agency for 9/11 investigations know about the big fish he had on the line.

This is conjecture on my part, of course, but there seems to be a big undercurrent around this issue. The German sights I watch are tip-toeing around this AFAIC. The story isn't front page anymore, either.

That will probably change thursday when the judge questions him.

longjack

78 posted on 01/23/2004 5:19:43 PM PST by longjack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: aristeides
#76, meant you too.
79 posted on 01/23/2004 5:37:28 PM PST by Shermy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: aristeides; Angelus Errare; Dog; All
Here's a couple of articles from Germany which seem to show the direction this story is taking now.

The "Spiegel" article is today's, "Die Welt"'s was datelined yesterday.


 

The surprise witness for the prosecution in the Hamburg Qaida trial is considered unreliable by federal government security experts. The former Iranian agent with the assumed names "Toni" and "Hamid Reza Zakeri" had already had contact with the Federal Intelligence Agency [BND, lj] in 2002, however, after extensive interrogation had been classified in most areas as not credible. In testimony to officials of the Federal Intelligence Agency shortly before the end of the Hamburg trial he had charged accused terror accomplice Abdelghani Mzoudi of having supported the assassins of September 11th as a logistician . In addition, the witness claimed Iranian authorities were informed of the attacks up front. Because of his statement, Mzoudi's verdict, planned for last Thursday, was postponed.

© DER SPIEGEL 5/2004

"Der Spiegel"....Sicherheitsexperten halten neuen Zeugen im Qaida-Prozess für unglaubwürdig

Terror process: State's attorney held back information

An alleged secret agent made statements about September 11th in October 2003 - credibility of the Iranian shall be checked

by Claus Hornung

German federal lawyers have passed on information about the attacks of September 11th, which they have known about since October 2003, until only just before the planned pronouncement of judgement. The State's Attorney, Bruno Jost, explained on Thursday before the Hanseatic Higher Regional Court that an alleged former Iranian secret agent had already claimed in October 2003 to be able to make statements about the attacks on the World Trade Center.

The man, who uses the cover name Hamed Reza Zakiri, was interrogated by Jost in connection with the murder of Iranian-Kurdish opposition figures in 1992 in the Berlin restaurant "Mykonos". On the objection of the angered presiding judge, Klaus Rühle, why this hadn't been passed on, Jost explained he hadn't seen any cause to. He deals exclusively with the Mykonos case. Only when Zakiri mentioned at lunch last week that Al Qaida plans to murder, the in Hamburg accused, Abdelghani Mzoudi, Jost got the Federal Criminal Investigation Agency (BKA) involved, who, in turn, informed the Hamburg court.

Since Zakiri has been assured confidentiality, two BKA officials testified about Monday's Zakiri interrogation before the court yesterday. In it they explained that Mzoudi, who is on trial for abetting in the murder of thousands and the membership in a terrorist organisation, coordinated the communication between the backers of September 11th. This had been admitted to in an e-mail from an Iranian secret service agent in December 2003 that had been passed on to Zakiri. After Mzoudi had been released from custody in December following anonymous exonerating testimony, Al Qaida had decided to liquidate him.

Zakiri, himself, claims to have seen a document from Al Qaida in Teheran in the summer of 2001, which spoke of actions in the USA which could provoke retaliation. In the same year, Zakiri claims to have fled from Iran because he was afraid that his eight-year employment as double agent for the CIA would be exposed. The USA still owed him 1.2 million dollars for his work. After his flight the American authorities didn't want to help him, however.

The BKA officials Andy N. and Thorsten W. didn't want give any opinions of Zakiri's credibility after repeated requests from Rühle and the defense. "We simply asked our questions in an unbiased manner."

According to officials, Zakiri has not made any direct financial demands, but made any further statements dependent on the 'securing of his livelihood'. Mzoudi's defenders pointed out that Zakiri had already told parts of his story to a Saudi-Arabian newspaper in February, 2003. In the report a CIA employee is also quoted, who describes Zakiri as a "monumental fairy tale teller". At the next trial date on January 29th, the court wants to question Zakiri personally. State's attorney Walter Hemberger stated, because of the assured confidentiality, this can be considered only "as a wish", however.

Artikel erschienen am 23. Jan 2004

"Die welt"....Terrorprozess: Bundesanwalt hielt Informationen zurück

 

Translated by longjack


80 posted on 01/24/2004 4:45:03 AM PST by longjack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: longjack
Oops,... the title of the "Die Welt" article should be Terror Trial, not Terror Process.

I also keep forgetting the "Die Welt" link requires a login. Registration is free, you do have to enter a valid e-mail address for verification, though.

longjack

81 posted on 01/24/2004 4:56:45 AM PST by longjack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: longjack; Shermy; swarthyguy; Angelus Errare
Guardian now reporting the story: Under Oath, German Agent Says US Warned About 9/11.
82 posted on 01/24/2004 8:23:08 AM PST by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: longjack; Shermy; swarthyguy; Angelus Errare
Long story on the matter in yesterday's Chicago Tribune: Germans study claims by source tying Iran to 9/11.
83 posted on 01/24/2004 8:51:07 AM PST by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: aristeides; longjack; Shermy; swarthyguy; Angelus Errare; Dog; All
Just to do a follow up:

I managed to find a report "Spiegel" took from AP about Zakeri's testimony today.

It appears to have been a complete joke. He showed up with beard, sunglasses and beard, repeated all the things that we've reported about thus far, but had zero, if not negative impact.

The judge couldn't understand a word he said, none of his sources were concrete, all hearsay, and no statements could be verified and were classified as speculative.

One sentance in the report said Zakeri maintains he had contacts with many western intelligence services, but became insulted and broke off contact when money was offered. He also knew everything about anything anybody wanted to know when it would have created an advantage for him personally, according to the report.

As the title of the link says, this one backfired.

Mzoudi will walk, verdict is next week.

Here's the link in German, I can't translate it now.

"Der Spiegel"...."Der Schuss ist nach hinten losgegangen"

longjack

84 posted on 01/30/2004 3:14:56 PM PST by longjack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-84 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson