Posted on 01/21/2004 2:12:20 PM PST by KantianBurke
Could you point out where Bush has ever said something like this?
You are SO serious, after all, John.
Sheesh!
I have never doubted that. If you feel that you have some more information, either as to the Dean Rusk policy in Africa in the 1960s, or as to the characteristics of the Iraqi people, which are germane to the subject of whether "Democracy" forced upon peoples in the Third World, or with non-homogeneous populations, is a good idea, by all means share them. I have stated some reasons why it is not a good idea. I have stated others in the essay on Democracy In The Third World. If you have a better argument, go ahead. If I cannot answer your argument, I will be the first to acknowledge it.
I gave up arguing a position for the sake of arguing it--or to show blind support for a politician--in the 9th grade, when I thought I got whipped by a girl in the class, because I was putting politics before the pursuit of truth--something no American should ever do. The humiliation and the sense of having deserved it, because I put politics ahead of truth, set me on the path I have pursued ever since.
William Flax
Wait until Bush turns up the heat with the promised assault on local cultures
To which you replied:
Could you point out where Bush has ever said something like this?
He devoted what was probably the longest part of his State of The Union into discussing Iraq and Near & Middle Eastern policy. He not only pledged to promote Democracy, he offered some puffery about the universality of the desire for freedom--without, of course, acknowledging that different peoples define the concept quite differently, which goes directly to his next threat, which was to start bombarding (my term) the region with pro-Democracy radio broadcasts.
Do you really believe that that is not going to be taken as a deliberate insult by the leaders of Moslem culture in the nations slated for bombardment. (It smacks of the same childish tactics that his Dad used against Noriega in Panama, but that is admittedly an irrelevant digression.)
Do you really think blasting the integrity of other people's cultures is a way to win their respect? Forget about their friendship, he obviously isn't interested in that. But respect?
You may be convinced, as in your last previous post to me, that you have much deeper knowledge of the Near and Middle East than the rest of us--although it has yet to shine through your words. But how do you justify such insulting behavior? And if nothing else, we ought to learn from the Israeli experience. Simply being able to whip these people in a fight, does not turn them into docile whipped curs.
You may make the mistake of thinking that we have some magic insight that the Israelis lack, but they employ substantially the same advanced tactics, technology, etc., of a European power. (And by European power, I mean not only the leading countries of Europe, but the settler nations, such as the United States, Australia, and South Africa before the ANC, etc., and now Israel.)
It is time to try mutual respect, the tactic of the Founding Fathers of this country. Why the President seem determined to pretend respect while offering insult, I have no idea--maybe more of the influence of the dysfunctional Mr. Rove.
William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site
I will respond with the statement I made originally:
There ARE other people who might just know a bit more than you.
Perhaps Bush has Middle Eastern experts he's consulting who actually know what the culture is in Iraq, versus a scholar, sitting in his home in Ohio whose avocation is second-guessing the President.
This type of argument simply does not fly. Frankly, I have used a similar argument--I will admit, in order to keep my promise to be completely honest--to explain why I was and am willing to accept the President's decision to actually go to war in Iraq. I was and am willing to concede the possibility that he had secret intelligence, which, in honor, he cannot completely share with us, without compromising the safety and effectiveness of his sources. But that sort of argument can not be made for a particular program on which long term future peacetime decisions will be based. To make the argument, you do, to justify peacetime programs, you must be willing to abdicate the first principal of participatory Government. I will not agree to join you in that.
I realize that blind trust was the mindset of the German middle class under Hitler; of the Italian middle class under Mussolini, etc.. But it is absurd that you and the President advocate imposing a new form of Government upon the people of Iraq, but will not debate the issues that go to why you think it will work, in the face of evidence that it does not work in non-homogeneous societies, in third world nations.
You may trust in rulers to always do the right thing. But America was premised on just the opposite. We sought to bind our leaders down by the chains of the Constitution; by creating an effective net work of checks and balances. That is why, for example, in foreign policy, the President is supposed to act with the advice and consent of the Senate--the great deliberative wing of the Congress.
But enough. As I freely acknowledged before, I have no doubt that there are people in this world who know more about almost any subject than I. But I am not such a "damn fool," as to attribute such superiority to some faceless creature of your wishful imagination. And I have lived long enough to have very little trust in the intellectual integrity of most of the job holders in Washington.
Bring your faceless champion, out of hiding; and let us have honest debate before we damage America's future in fanciful pursuits, for undisclosed motives.
William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site
If you feel this strongly, you ought to volunteer your services to the Department of Defense and to Bremer. I'm sure they'd appreciate your insights.
And I'm not being snide about that. I'm completely serious.
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