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Saddam's WMD hidden in Syria, says Iraq survey chief
The Sunday Telegraph (UK) ^ | 1/25/04 | Con Coughlin

Posted on 01/24/2004 5:07:40 PM PST by saquin

David Kay, the former head of the coalition's hunt for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, yesterday claimed that part of Saddam Hussein's secret weapons programme was hidden in Syria.

In an exclusive interview with The Telegraph, Dr Kay, who last week resigned as head of the Iraq Survey Group, said that he had uncovered evidence that unspecified materials had been moved to Syria shortly before last year's war to overthrow Saddam.

"We are not talking about a large stockpile of weapons," he said. "But we know from some of the interrogations of former Iraqi officials that a lot of material went to Syria before the war, including some components of Saddam's WMD programme. Precisely what went to Syria, and what has happened to it, is a major issue that needs to be resolved."

Dr Kay's comments will intensify pressure on President Bashar Assad to clarify the extent of his co-operation with Saddam's regime and details of Syria's WMD programme. Mr Assad has said that Syria was entitled to defend itself by acquiring its own biological and chemical weapons arsenal.

Syria was one of Iraq's main allies in the run-up to the war and hundreds of Iraqi officials - including members of Saddam's family - were given refuge in Damascus after the collapse of the Iraqi dictator's regime. Many of the foreign fighters responsible for conducting terrorist attacks against the coalition are believed to have entered Iraq through Syria.

A Syrian official last night said: "These allegations have been raised many times in the past by Israeli officials, which proves that they are false."


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antraz; davidkay; iraq; iraqiwmds; isg; syria; wmd
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To: ambrose
Prediction:

Assad pulls a Kaddaffi and hands the WMD over, in exchange for the Golan Heights/overall peace deal with Israel... in October...

My Prediction:

Assad pulls a Kaddaffi and hands the WMD over, in exchange for his life because the Golan Heights is not on the table.

Assad's life is....Yes, in October...

51 posted on 01/24/2004 7:26:07 PM PST by Major_Risktaker (Oderint dum metuant)
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To: Major_Risktaker
definitely prefer your prediction to mine
52 posted on 01/24/2004 7:28:24 PM PST by ambrose
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To: StriperSniper
Definitely Gray.


53 posted on 01/24/2004 7:32:04 PM PST by JohnnyZ ("This is our most desperate hour. Help me Diane Sawyer. You're my only hope." -- Howard Dean)
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To: meenie
"The invisible, divisible man and the Easter Bunny did something with the WMD's. Where are those satellites that can take a picture of a liscense plate as the car rolls down the highway? We have had a satellite over Iraq constantly and aerial reconnaisence since the First Iraq War. The propaganda mill is busy justifying another adventure in Syria."

As early as 1965, the U.S. was able to take pictures from 100,000 feet and, from the angle of deflection, not just read the letters but also give the nearly precise dimensions of the item in question. There's no propaganda involved. The mountains of intelligence everyday is very difficult to wade thru and piece together - keep this, toss that, connect this to something I saw two hours earlier, etc.

54 posted on 01/24/2004 7:36:46 PM PST by Chu Gary (USN Intel guy 1967 - 1970)
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To: tentmaker
Good citation.
55 posted on 01/24/2004 7:49:13 PM PST by Loc123
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To: thinktwice
You are correct. Except we should give them the chance to peacefully crumble before we move in.
56 posted on 01/24/2004 7:50:15 PM PST by Loc123
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To: doug from upland
My choice is July 25 -- the day before the RAT convention.

Better yet, make it the day after the convention picks the nominee. You know its gonna be an anti war freakazoid. But by then, its too late (except if your name is Toricelli and you live in NJ).

57 posted on 01/24/2004 7:51:32 PM PST by Go Gordon (A Dean Presidency would be as effective as a one-legged man in a butt kicking contest)
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To: meenie; Chu Gary
There is truck traffic going up and down the interstate all day. You could have a satelite, or a videocam on the side of the road filming the traffic and all you will know is that there is a lot of traffic.

A truck enters a warehouse in one town, goes 6 hours down the road and unloads inside another warehouse in another town. Unless you have some kind of inside knowledge what is in those warehouses, you have no idea what is in the truck, just from a photograph.

What we can tell is that there was a lot of truck traffic heading out of Iraq for Syria right before the war. If the caravans came from military bases, we can assume they were hauling weapons. But the photograph itself won't tell you that.
58 posted on 01/24/2004 7:52:38 PM PST by marron
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To: Chu Gary
So if the WMDs did go to Syria, then we would have seen it?

Also, if an un-identified helicopter was seen leaving Tora Bora, Afghanistan, we could track it?
59 posted on 01/24/2004 7:53:11 PM PST by Loc123
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To: Loc123
But you wouldn't necessarily know what was in it.
60 posted on 01/24/2004 7:54:51 PM PST by marron
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To: MJY1288
They will in June.

Last summer it was September of 2003.

61 posted on 01/24/2004 7:55:59 PM PST by joesbucks
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To: marron
True. With the Tora Bora helicopter, though, it would be safe to assume it was OBL.
62 posted on 01/24/2004 8:00:07 PM PST by Loc123
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To: saquin
I keep asking: Why didn't our special ops guys (who were working in western Iraq long before the war started) intercept the convoys at the Syrian border?
63 posted on 01/24/2004 8:04:33 PM PST by freedom4me
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To: Loc123
It was safe to say it was the bad guys. It would be interesting to know why we didn't shoot it down. We didn't need to know who was in a particular cave to bomb it, we would logically have shot down any helicopter that lifted off.

Its odd. Of course its right on the border I guess, maybe we weren't shooting down helicopters headed for Pakistan... I'm sure I don't understand why. Maybe the ISI had permission to evacuate some of its personnel? Which just happened to include the Bin Ladin clan?
64 posted on 01/24/2004 8:05:53 PM PST by marron
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To: freedom4me
Why didn't our special ops guys (who were working in western Iraq long before the war started) intercept the convoys at the Syrian border?

Can you say FUBAR Rules of Engagement?

65 posted on 01/24/2004 8:07:34 PM PST by Indie (Hopefully my post is void of hate speech and spurious flames.)
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To: LandofLincoln
"About three months before the start of the war there was a news story of a 60 truck caravan driving from Iraq to Syria. Unless I dreamt it."

I guess we had the same dream. ;-)

66 posted on 01/24/2004 8:13:55 PM PST by Spunky (This little tag just keeps following me where ever I go.)
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To: joesbucks
Something happened to those weapons, whether they are buried somewhere in Iraq or have been moved into Syria, who knows, but I seriously doubt Saddam celebrated the inspectors leaving in 1998 by destroying what he was hiding from us. When we left in 1998 there was no doubt that we had not destroyed all of their stockpiles and programs. So they're somewhere.

I personally believe they're in Syria and much like the quiet diplomacy that resulted in Libya's capitulation, maybe the same thing is going in with Syria's Assad. If you've noticed, we haven't heard much from the DOD or State Dept. about Syria for a few months now. One thing is for sure, those weapons are somewhere and all the naysayers on the left can cry foul and claim Bush lied all they want, but those weapons existed, and I believe they will be found

67 posted on 01/24/2004 8:15:24 PM PST by MJY1288 (WITHOUT DOUBLE STANDARDS, LIBERALS WOULDN'T HAVE ANY !)
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To: marron
There can be 3 plausible explanations for the helicopter.

1) It was Bin Laden or high-ranking Al Qaeda. Only they would have the money for a helicopter.

2) It was the ISI. But why would they would be in a war zone flying a helicopter is unapparent.

3) It was a US Specops mission, but I don't see why our troops wouldn't be able to know that. The report I read said that the soldiers wanted to shoot the copter down. I also don't remember if the report mentioned the copter's build.
68 posted on 01/24/2004 8:16:13 PM PST by Loc123
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To: Havoc
Let Bush underscore the point that had they not been held back from acting, the time might not have been allowed for Iraq to move those weapons.

This is exactly what I've been wishing one of the talking heads would say on TV. They insisted that he go to the UN, Congress bickered back and forth and all the while, Saddam had plenty of time, to move anything he wanted to.

69 posted on 01/24/2004 8:26:21 PM PST by GOP-Pat
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To: saquin
Thanks for this post.

Of course the Leftist US media made a big deal about Kay's resignation, but mentioned nothing about this.

70 posted on 01/24/2004 8:40:47 PM PST by Mad_Tom_Rackham ("...the right of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.")
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To: ambrose
Prediction: Assad pulls a Kaddaffi and hands the WMD over, in exchange for the Golan Heights/overall peace deal with Israel... in October...

Prediction:

Assad pulls a Kaddaffi and hands the WMD over, in exchange for not being obliterated ... in October...

71 posted on 01/24/2004 8:46:18 PM PST by Mad_Tom_Rackham ("...the right of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.")
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To: cyncooper
I woke uyp to these Fox Reports and could only think to myself that this was so contradictoray of everything kay had said previously that it couldn't possibly be true.

Shoddy journalism on Fox's part. CNN had nothing on their website when I went to check this morning after hearing these reportsmon Fox
72 posted on 01/24/2004 9:22:51 PM PST by Cosmo (Liberalism is for Girls!)
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To: sweetliberty
Didn't know David Kay had made this claim before. Now that he has resigned, he can speak more freely about what he knows. Well, at least about some of it.

Syria is next on the target list. It is not hard to believe that they are involved in "Libya like" discussions with the US and GB.

The Age of Monarchies, or the modern version, dictators, is over. Now is the Age of Democracies.
73 posted on 01/24/2004 9:32:49 PM PST by TheDon (Have a Happy New Year!)
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To: LandofLincoln
I remember that story too. I wonder what was in the truck however...
74 posted on 01/24/2004 9:33:38 PM PST by TheDon (Have a Happy New Year!)
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To: meenie
The propaganda is just to convince the public that another war is needed. Why don't we get the problems in Iraq and Afghanistan taken care of before propaganizing the necessity of going into Syria? I never did believe in doing a half-assed job before starting on another.

True
75 posted on 01/24/2004 9:34:08 PM PST by PersonalLiberties (Between Life and the Pursuit of Happiness You Need Liberty www.personalliberties.com)
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To: meenie
LOL! Yea, fighting Japan and Germany and Italy. What were we thinking! I thought we had gotten over such craziness!
76 posted on 01/24/2004 9:35:18 PM PST by TheDon (Have a Happy New Year!)
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To: saquin
A Syrian official last night said: "These allegations have been raised many times in the past by Israeli officials, which proves that they are false."

Claiming they are false by invoking "Israel" may play to the Islam street, but it don't cut it in the US Assad!

77 posted on 01/24/2004 9:37:58 PM PST by highlander_UW
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To: Cosmo
FoxNews is slowly getting closer to being indistinguishable from the bigmedia liberal networks. They used to look at things a little differently and do their own research - now they just parrot what all the other networks are saying. They're in love with John Kerry now also.
78 posted on 01/24/2004 9:38:06 PM PST by over3Owithabrain (just kidding folks - I support W)
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To: ambrose
Sharon will never go for that deal. Not a chance.
79 posted on 01/24/2004 9:38:17 PM PST by zarf (..where lieth those little things with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment?)
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To: tentmaker
I find it amazing that people can't even remember the history of the last 5 years, let alone the last 15 years.

Thanks for the review for those who were too young to pay attention to such things as they were happening.
80 posted on 01/24/2004 9:39:54 PM PST by TheDon (Have a Happy New Year!)
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To: FreeReign
Well said.
81 posted on 01/24/2004 9:40:36 PM PST by TheDon (Have a Happy New Year!)
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To: Pubbie
It was Powell and Rice's brilliant idea to pussy foot around with Dopi Anus (Koffi Annan) for six months.

Yup, but POTUS had the ability to say, "NO, we're not doing this nonsense." He didn't. The buck stops with Bush. Not Powell. Not Rice. A lot of folks--I'm not saying you're one of them--want to look back now and remember nothing other than Bush "standing up" to the UN. They conveniently forget all the "I REALLY mean it this time!" moments between him and the UN. It went on for what, six months? All the while Saddam could do anything he wanted.

MM

82 posted on 01/24/2004 9:42:20 PM PST by MississippiMan
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To: Go Gordon; doug from upland
My choice is July 25 -- the day before the RAT convention

I agree with Gordon, the day AFTER their convention.

But I want OBL produced, even if he's frozen solid. :-)

83 posted on 01/24/2004 9:44:38 PM PST by Howlin
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To: TheDon
Yeah, but we had in excess of over 1 million men to fight in those campaingns, today to the total ground fighting force is less than 900,000 and that's including the Army and the Marines plus their reserves and gaurds. I have fought against these enemies in the first gulf war, in somalia, in kosovo, and in afganistan last year. To much war for an old man of 38
84 posted on 01/24/2004 9:59:37 PM PST by FreedomFighter13
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To: PersonalLiberties
He doesn't mind half-assed thinking though.
85 posted on 01/24/2004 10:15:41 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: saquin
Ah, so Kay's comments were taken out of context in the earlier reports.
86 posted on 01/24/2004 10:21:59 PM PST by alnick (A vote for anyone but George W. Bush for president in 2004 is a vote to strengthen Al Qaeda.)
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To: LS; meenie
And the vial of botulinum toxin. And the castor beans. And the centrifuge. And the underground prison where Saddam's henchmen carried out bio or chem weapons experiments on prisoners.
87 posted on 01/24/2004 10:27:28 PM PST by alnick (A vote for anyone but George W. Bush for president in 2004 is a vote to strengthen Al Qaeda.)
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To: cyncooper; OldFriend
I wanted to scream too because Fox News, and almost everyone else, including me, allowed ourselves to become distracted with the WMD stockpiles as a political argument that the fact that Saddam had a WMD program has become insignificant.
88 posted on 01/24/2004 10:30:35 PM PST by alnick (A vote for anyone but George W. Bush for president in 2004 is a vote to strengthen Al Qaeda.)
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To: joesbucks
Kay did issue a report in September. You should read it.
89 posted on 01/24/2004 10:49:48 PM PST by alnick (A vote for anyone but George W. Bush for president in 2004 is a vote to strengthen Al Qaeda.)
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To: saquin; JustPiper
Bump/Ping!
90 posted on 01/24/2004 10:53:42 PM PST by Pro-Bush (Homeland Security + Tom Ridge = Open Borders --> Demand Change!)
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To: FreedomFighter13
Thank you for your service.

I think our current force is much more capable than that of WWII. No reflection on them. If they had the same weapons, communications, and logistics back then as we do today, they wouldn't have needed as many men either!
91 posted on 01/24/2004 11:04:51 PM PST by TheDon (Have a Happy New Year!)
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To: alnick
To make matters worse, I turned on FNC and there was Judge Napolitano discussing how there are NO WMD, and he has a military expert, Hunt.......who is saying the President has to address the country and say he was wrong. That all the intelligence was wrong. Clearly this was taped prior to the Kay clarification. But Powell has put his foot in his mouth or perhaps he has intentionally stabbed the President and Blair by saying maybe there were NO WMD........
92 posted on 01/24/2004 11:44:28 PM PST by OldFriend (Always understand, even if you remain among the few)
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To: alnick; saquin
I want to add my voice to what you just said. We let ourselves get so distracted by WMD stockpiles as a political issue that WMD programs has been made to seem insignificant.

It isn't.

Remember that France, Germany, Russia, and China all had established commercial ties to Saddam in spite of sanctions. Their ties couldn't fully be utilized while sanctions were in place, and would be useless if Saddam were removed. Which means they were bought, they took the bait, hook set, fish in the boat.

When Saddam was able to buy enough votes on the Security Council to veto any action against him, and he had done that, that means that sanctions are on their way out. And sanctions were in fact on their way out.

That leaves us a choice. Either stand down while Saddam emerges from his box, with the full backing of the aforementioned countries, meaning he is unstoppable at that point, with WMD programs intact and easily reconstituted, or we move now before sanctions can be voted out and take him out.

We chose the latter. WMD was a tangential issue. India has nukes and we don't really care because India has no mass graveyards out behind their torture chambers. WMD in the hands of someone who isn't going to attack any of our friends is a legalistic issue. WMD in the hands of someone who most assuredly will is a military problem, and time is of the essence... not because the WMD's are about to be deployed, but because sanctions are on their way out.
93 posted on 01/24/2004 11:48:54 PM PST by marron
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To: All
^
94 posted on 01/25/2004 2:56:36 AM PST by jla
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To: TheDon
That was a war that was fought to protect ourselves from an attack upon us. In other words we were defending ourselves. There is a difference. The laws in the United States show this. A person that uses a weapon to wantonly go out and kill a victim is guilty of murder.

A person that defends himself against this type of individual and kills the intruder is excused as self-defense. This example has evolved through centuries of Christian history and is declared a natural law. This natural law was applied as a reason for attacking Iraq. The excuse was given that we had to act immediately because there was an immediate attack pending. Similar to the robber standing outside your door with a gun in his hand.

Now you have the right to blow him away with any type weapon you have. Unfortunately, for you, it is discovered that the person did not have a gun, that he was trying to get assistance for an auto accident that happened down the road. You reply that you THOUGHT he had a gun. This places you in the position of being very foolish and reckless at the least and probably headed for the slammer. As you keep protesting; "I thought he had a gun", you look very foolish and even accused of being a nut.

WW II, the man standing outside the door DID have a gun as Pearl Harbor showed. You DID have the right to defend yourself, which we did. We did not attack the man standing next to him, in this case, Germany and Italy, until they declared war upon us and declared their axis with the original killer. There is a big difference between WW II and Iraq as I have tried to show.

I do not expect to convince the neighbors that "I thought he had a gun" as an excuse. They will keep pretending that he is a paranoid nut that made a terrible mistake. Now to Iraq. Sadaam was a brutal dictator that abused his own people and people in surrounding countries. We see the same conditions in Cuba, Haiti, Somalia, North Korea, Colombia, and scores of other countries.

The first obstacle we face in eliminating all injustices in the world is that we do not have the resources to eliminate them all. The second obstacle is the fact that we do not have the authority to do this. The third obstacle that we face is the inability to defend ourselves militarily and economically. Someone has to pay the bills, and someone has to furnish the manpower for the armed forces. We need a genuis to figure this out over a prolonged period of time. We also need to figure out how to defend our borders, ports, and airports, for defense of America is the FIRST priority for being a nation.

Then, after all this is solved, we have to put a risk benefit ratio together to determine whether our intervention in different countries is causing more or less harm to the position we are taking. We have to ask ourselves if the deaths associated with our actions are greater or less than the original government we wish to topple. Most of all, we have to determine that the area will be more peaceful when we leave, because we cannot occupy the world. Our record has not been good. One only need to look at the conditions in Somalia, Kosovo, Haiti, Africa where we have been involved and answer the question: "Are these nations better off and more peaceful than when we came"?

I know these opinions of mine are foreign to the nuke 'em, blow 'em up crowd that enjoy this type of behavior, but they will determine the long range future of America. Do we move forward as an example of independence and peaceful intentions or do we go forward in the traditions of other empires that exhausted themselves in the ever increasing drive to dominate as much of the world as possible before collapsing. History does not treat this scenario kindly either.

95 posted on 01/25/2004 4:13:36 AM PST by meenie
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To: Dave S
You're also making a big assumption ... that there were in fact WMD in Iraq prior to the start of the latest war. Saddam may have thought there were but seems that most of the evidence shows that they probably didnt exist. That doesnt mean that Bush was deceiving anyone. Even the UN folks thought Saddam was hiding something.

Everyone knew Saddam had WMD. The WMD certainly did exist the question is if they were destroyed where did their destruction take place?

Bush and Powell were totally correct in their statements.

Here is two possible scenario's.

1.Some WMD have been found, just not the quanity Saddam was supposed to have, so where did it all go?
2.The gov't is staying quite about WMD to find more.

Ya think by now we'd find some evidence of it either being destroyed or going somewhere. This WMD program Iraq had wasn't small and there is much that was not accounted for unless the UN and the rest of the world was lying about all those WMD.

96 posted on 01/25/2004 5:01:15 AM PST by sirchtruth
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To: meenie
The propaganda mill is busy justifying another adventure in Syria.

You got that straight. The mysterious, magical WMDs will turn up in whatever country the necons next wish to attack.

97 posted on 01/25/2004 5:10:55 AM PST by Commie Basher
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To: saquin
Yes, Israeli intel was the first to come forward prior to the war when UN 'inspectors' were let in, saying they weren't going to find any because they were moving them to Syria. Syria supported the regime through the war, has sent fighters to Iraq to attack our troops, made statements that are threats. Syria's taking Iraq's position on the axis of evil list. Israel knows their intel since they knew about Iraq's nuclear reactor when the world concluded they apparently didn't have one.
98 posted on 01/25/2004 5:44:30 AM PST by bushfamfan
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To: saquin
Does Kay not speak English or something? Why can he not make his story clear to the media?
99 posted on 01/25/2004 6:45:59 AM PST by Tricorn
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To: Commie Basher
There are mysterious and magaical weapons in Iran and North Korea. Are they also the imagination of the Jews?
100 posted on 01/25/2004 7:22:36 AM PST by RobbyS (XPqu)
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