So are our teachers really overpaid?

Star Newspapers (Chicago) ^ | Sunday, February 8, 2004 | Tom Houlihan

[Dan Evans]

Talking about teacher's salaries is missing the point. Would the Mafia do a better job if its hitmen were paid a bigger salary?

[Porterville]

I got an MBA... stopped thinking about making cash, and decided to teach... I volunteer over 17 hours a week to earn my certification. I also study at the Fire Academy so I can work as a reserve. Some folks, like myself, dive into the fire... we don't toss money around to feel good about our superiority over the community. We contribute and Care about the foot prints we make. Again <<>>

[Porterville]

(Squeak!)

[Porterville]

One more thing, why don't you volunteer your time and expertise, if you are good at business, maybe, just maybe, you are good at something else. Unless of course, you are a lawyer.

[Polybius]

Talking about teacher's salaries is missing the point. Would the Mafia do a better job if its hitmen were paid a bigger salary?

Only if you volunteer more time and money to the Mafia. < /sarcasm>

[Porterville]

Oh, missed the line that you are a doctor... see, you do have something to offer. My dads a doctor, long hours hey chief?

[Porterville]

Another thing doc; I learned from the mistakes from others, I want to actually spend time with my kids and make sure they have a dad that is available that they can look up to... some men this takes a long time to learn, I myself figured this out early in life and I am doing something about it BEFORE I have children.

[Polybius]

got an MBA... stopped thinking about making cash, and decided to teach... I volunteer over 17 hours a week to earn my certification. I also study at the Fire Academy so I can work as a reserve. Some folks, like myself, dive into the fire... we don't toss money around to feel good about our superiority over the community. We contribute and Care about the foot prints we make. Again

If you "volunteer" 17 hours a week to "get a certification", that is a "requirement", is it not?

One more thing, why don't you volunteer your time and expertise, if you are good at business, maybe, just maybe, you are good at something else. Unless of course, you are a lawyer.

Lawyer? Business?

Do you have a reading disability?

As I posted before, I have a MEDICAL PRACTICE that takes up 6 days out of the week.

After the EMT graduates of your Fire Academy drop their patients off at the Hospital, who do you think takes care of them?

MBA's?

In my life, there aren't 17 hours left over after the six days I spend "leaving footprints".

[Porterville]

We live our lives don't we?? Whatever choices we make we live with them in the end. EMT?? Is that what you consider fire fighters??? Why you are superior aren't you??

One thing, my dad is still working 6 days a week into his seventies at the community hospital; the only thing his 5 kids remember of him is how often he wasn't around.

[Bronco_Buster_FweetHyagh]

Public job. No competition. No grading standards for teachers' performance. Union. Extremely liberal political environment and bias. Taxpayer funded.

Is there any doubt that teachers with seniority are making 100k a year with summers off? don't forget the incredible benefits, and pension.

[Chi-townChief]

"An analysis of salaries and add-on payments in 13 south suburban high school districts shows that 275 teachers in our area were paid in excess of $100,000 during the 2002-2003 academic year."

That kind of pay is nothing to spit at anywhere in the Chicago area and, in the south suburbs (sometimes called the poor cousins), it's real good especially the 30-year P.E. teacher pulling in over $140,000.

[Ophiucus]

That kind of pay is nothing to spit at anywhere in the Chicago area and, in the south suburbs (sometimes called the poor cousins), it's real good especially the 30-year P.E. teacher pulling in over $140,000.

Hey, if I were a teacher, I would want a job in a big city suburb for that reason. But did your source mention the downstate pay?

$10,000 is the starting minimum salary. Down here in southern Illinois, last I heard, it was an average of 20,000 starting and ranged up to $30-35,000 for an average in most areas. Livable, but not great.

Same job - different area.

[Chi-townChief]

The article was basically about da Sout' Side and suburbs. Out of curiousity, I don't know where you're at in southern Illinois but is there the same type of squawking about education being underfunded there as there is up here. The reason I ask is because when you look at spending per student vs. academic performance when the numbers are published, it doesn't really correlate.

[af_vet_rr]

$10,000 is the starting minimum salary. Down here in southern Illinois, last I heard, it was an average of 20,000 starting and ranged up to $30-35,000 for an average in most areas. Livable, but not great.

I can't speak for anywhere else, but in Central Texas, it's about $30-35,000 starting, depending on qualifications, etc. I know some teachers in our neighborhood, and they don't think the pay is worth the hours or the stress from the increased testing due to No Child Left Behind, etc. (another great case of federal interference in local affairs, oh joy). They will be leaving public schools this summer either for private schools, or for another district that is rumored to have opted out of No Child Left Behind and is not spending all of the classtime on tests.

My daughter was going to teach, but after her student teaching, and a couple of month-long substituting stints, she has decided to go back to grad school and do something else. She is of the opinion that public schools are no longer really educating children, but instead teaching them how to take tests so the schools look good, which makes the district looks good, which means our money that the feds are holding gets released back to the local schools.

Her experience was that over half of classroom time is spent on these tests, or the teachers are having to work their lesson plans to teach only what's on the tests.

I'm glad I'm not a teacher either way.

[aimhigh]

Down here in southern Illinois, last I heard, it was an average of 20,000 starting and ranged up to $30-35,000 for an average in most areas.

Starting salaries are too low, which is why many good people don't teach. Unfortunately, the starting salaries are used to get increases for the tenured, highly paid teachers that only work 9 months of the year.

[azcap]

Tenure and mandatory annual raises negotiated by unions are a huge problem. We need to reward loyalty and recognize the value of increased experience but when one teacher teaching 11th Grade English is getting paid $30K while another teacher in the next classroom is getting $85K to teach the same class you have a problem. The $140K a year PE teacher is the best example.

[Polybius]

We live our lives don't we?? Whatever choices we make we live with them in the end. EMT?? Is that what you consider fire fighters??? Why you are superior aren't you??

Oh, I'm sorry.

Did I insult you by mentioning those lowly EMT's in the same sentence with the Fire Department you some day want to join?

In our County, the first responders to every medical emergency in the field, from motor vehicle accidents to medical emergencies to Fire Rescue Boat operations to fires are Fire Department EMT's.

EMT's are highly trained and highly respected members of the Fire Department.....At least in our County, at least in our Hospital and at least in our Fire Department if not in your MBA mind.

You are actually insulted that someone would even mention an EMT in the same breath with "Fire Department".

You are insulted to the point that you accuse me of "superiority" for mentioning EMT's.

Unbelievable.

You have shown the same holier-than-thou attitude in regards to your "volunteering" in a public school when, in reality, that is a requirement for your public school teaching certification. If someone does it differently than you, they are are lower than.........an EMT!

When your Dad or I drag ourselves out of bed at 3:00 AM to come to the Hospital to deal with a motor vehicle accident victim without any insurance whatsoever and we provide free care, that is "volunteering".

When I accept every patient in this County that walks or is wheeled through the Hospital door in regarldless of ability to pay, although several other specialists in the County do not, that is "volunteering".

There are other ways to "volunteer" besides putting in your required student teaching hours for your certification.

At least you recognize that your Dad did something.

Maybe this is the first time in your life that you have actually had a line of work that isn't totally irrelevant to the health and safety of the community. If that is the case, remember that there are other ways to "volunteer" and others have been doing it for one, two or three decades longer than you have.

Try to change your holier-than-thou attitude before you finish Fire Academy. If not, you are going to have a lot of trouble with your Fire Department colleagues.......especially those Fire Department EMT's you hold in such contempt.

Good bye.

[Porterville]

Work harder, your kids don't have enough things. Good luck keeping what is left of your sanity.

[Orange1998]

When I accept every patient in this County that walks or is wheeled through the Hospital door in regarldless of ability to pay, although several other specialists in the County do not, that is "volunteering".

I agree with you 100%. This country could use more doctors like you. Keep up the good work.