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Bush credited for Guard drills (Kapow!)
The Boston Globe ^ | 2/10/04 | Walter V. Robinson

Posted on 02/10/2004 4:49:27 AM PST by The G Man

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:11:35 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

President Bush received credit for attending Air National Guard drills in the fall of 1972 and spring of 1973 -- a period when his commanders have said he did not appear for duty at bases in Montgomery, Ala., and Houston -- according to two new documents obtained by the Globe.


(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: arf; awol; awolcharges; bush; defyingorders; deserter; disciplinaryaction; elections2004; gwb2004; militaryrecord; militaryservice; nationalguard; nepotism; servicerecord; slimyawolcharges; twoyears; w2004
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To: spokeshave; Poohbah; All
Being a fighter pilot -- for that matter, simply taking off in a single-engine jet fighter of the Century series, such as an F-102, or any of the military's other marvelous bricks with fins on them -- presented a man, on a perfectly sunny day, with more ways to get himself killed than his wife and children could imagine in their wildest fears.

-- Tom Wolfe, The Right Stuff.


151 posted on 02/10/2004 8:35:52 AM PST by dighton
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To: Poohbah
We got breaking-up noises... I'd say that's a confirmed kill.
152 posted on 02/10/2004 8:36:31 AM PST by hchutch ("I never get involved with my own life. It's too much trouble." - Michael Garibaldi)
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To: TomB
Beat me by 20 seconds!

You're welcome.

153 posted on 02/10/2004 8:38:34 AM PST by dighton
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To: TomB
Great get...suggest we start e-mailing it to lots of media and news sources...
154 posted on 02/10/2004 8:38:43 AM PST by ken5050
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To: kristinn
This is the why of The Globe getting these documents. The 'Rats won't let it go.

The Rats sure are pulling out all the stops to call for an independent investigation aren't they???

I wonder what they'll try next?

155 posted on 02/10/2004 8:43:58 AM PST by Mo1 (" Do you want a president who injects poison into his skull for vanity?")
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To: The Bronze Titan
I think they're playing it brilliantly.

Look what has transpired: Kerry denigrates the guard
Kerry campaign appears to have gone negative
MORE attention has been paid to that era and Kerry's errant political calculation to join the radical anti-war movement
Kerry appears petty
Now Kerry appears wrong

Brilliantly done

156 posted on 02/10/2004 8:48:35 AM PST by Homer1
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To: MizSterious
Apparently, you did not read either one. The article posted here states that Bush was "credited for Air National Guard drills".
The link I posted shows the actual documents, at best/ Bush got points from the ARF(not TANG) the last 2 years after being disciplined for not taking a physical.

The question is whether Bush received credit for duty he did not perform, and it remains unanswered.
157 posted on 02/10/2004 8:54:47 AM PST by CMClay
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To: CMClay
Why do you post undocumented Soros smears? Do you first hand knowledge of these events? Can you provide your authentication of it (since it apparently is hearsay)?
158 posted on 02/10/2004 8:55:30 AM PST by Petronski (John Kerry looks like . . . like . . . weakness.)
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To: CMClay
The question is whether Bush received credit for duty he did not perform, and it remains unanswered.

It also remains an unproven allegation. If you suggest he received credit for duty he did not perform, YOU should PROVE IT.

159 posted on 02/10/2004 8:57:11 AM PST by Petronski (John Kerry looks like . . . like . . . weakness.)
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To: Just mythoughts
Yes, but it still say there are QUESTIONS so while it helps him it is hardly a KAPOW. No one is trying to convinced Republicans that he served and wasn't a rich kid getting privileges. We're trying to convince independents and Democrats with hard evidence. So this helps but it is not the knock out punch and isn't going to end the debate. To think it will is delusional. All questions will have to be answered then he can say "I told you so." He ain't there yet, except among the folks who will vote for him even if there was documented proof to squelch the charges.
160 posted on 02/10/2004 8:57:34 AM PST by jraven
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To: CMClay
What makes you think those 'documents' are real?

I've seen a DD-214 dummied up to look like an order transferring a young LT Bush to a 'penal company' in Colorado. Since DD-214s aren't used for PCS or movement orders, they are indeed fakes.

As are all those 'documents' you linked to. The 'rats have been pumping those things out by the truck load.

Try again.
161 posted on 02/10/2004 9:01:16 AM PST by ex 98C MI Dude
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To: Pubbie; ambrose; Torie
@
162 posted on 02/10/2004 9:03:06 AM PST by KQQL (@)
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To: WorkingClassFilth
Why would the Dems spill this now? All it does is desensitize people to accusations against Bush. The "Bush lied" garbage will now get less traction, not more.

Yes, some people will have "heard" something about Bush going AWOL, but if that kind of thing would sway their vote, they'd make some effort to find out the truth.

163 posted on 02/10/2004 9:07:47 AM PST by AmishDude
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To: jraven
It says there are "questions" because it ignores things we already know. And it does so on purpose.

For example, saying you don't remember someone being in your high school is not the same as saying, "I know that he was never in my high school." They have taken part of what someone said and twisted it to suit their desired result.

And that is a prime example of why I hate these creeps.
164 posted on 02/10/2004 9:12:15 AM PST by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (BUSH IN '04: Because we want to outlive Osama Bin Laden.)
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
"And that is a prime example of why I hate these creeps."

Here is another reason to hate them. They are liars.

Here is Walter "Mad Dog" Robinson's key paragraph in this story:

"The personnel records, covering Bush's Guard service between May 1972 and May 1973, constitute the first evidence that Bush appeared for any duty during the first 11 months of that 12-month period. Bush is recorded as having served the minimum number of days expected of Guard members in that 12 months of service time."

Here is the key paragraph from the George Magazine article from October 2001--three and a half years ago:

"Two documents obtained by Georgemag.com indicate that Bush did make up the time he missed during the summer and autumn of 1972. One is an April 23, 1973 order for Bush to report to annual active duty training the following month; the other is an Air National Guard statement of days served by Bush that is torn and undated but contains entries that correspond to the first. Taken together, they appear to establish that Bush reported for duty on nine occasions between November 29, 1972-when he could have been in Alabama-and May 24, 1973. Bush still wasn't flying, but over this span, he did earn nine points of National Guard service from days of active duty and 32 from inactive duty. When added to the 15 so-called "gratuitous" points that every member of the Guard got per year, Bush accumulated 56 points, more than the 50 that he needed by the end of May 1973 to maintain his standing as a Guardsman."

Everybody who has researched this story knows about the George Magazine piece. Robinson knew about it for three and a half years. George listed the documents they used.

Robinson is a Bush hater and a liar. He has been caught lying about this story (cf. Turnipseed) and he is trying to backfill before he goes the way of Jayson Blair.

Remember, he has already been found guilty of libel for making up stories about another Republican--a candidate for Governor of Massachusetts. This is his standard pattern. He is not a journalist. (Not an honest one, anyway.)
165 posted on 02/10/2004 9:21:48 AM PST by Hon
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To: cyncooper
"Notice how the media can dig at a story when they wish to. They've managed to demonstrate the president is honest and served honorably, yet still they insinuate there is something being hidden, something deceitful going on."

These guys are doing a great service to the President. Every time they pull out one of these question marks, they ride it and ride it until all the facts come out and they wind up not only shooting themselves in the feet but they indavertently wind up doing a lot of free PR work for him. I'm not surprised that he responds so seldom. They are performing a service for his cause.

167 posted on 02/10/2004 9:25:12 AM PST by redhead (Everything's a thing, if you know what I mean; can't have nothing cause there's no such thing)
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To: The G Man
It is appalling to watch the GOP "RESPOND" to the LEFTISTS candidates and the Socialist media as "THEY" set the agenda and define the relavent issues. Sickening to watch!
168 posted on 02/10/2004 9:29:39 AM PST by PISANO (u)
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To: visualops
ping for self
169 posted on 02/10/2004 9:34:34 AM PST by visualops (I'm still trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets.)
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To: The G Man
If this was true, why didn't it come out last election? This is pure Bravo Sierra.
170 posted on 02/10/2004 9:39:42 AM PST by Indie (Hello boys! I'm baaaack!)
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To: familyofman
Now that there appear to be actual days listed for GWB being at NG meetings in AL, it would be nice to have other NG members who were also present on those days come forward and verify attendance. Let's put this issue to bed - once and for all. Corroborating testimony is always good when driving home a point.

Let's see you produce testimony of people who remember where you were 30 years ago.

The issue has beenput to bed. The documentary evidence is more solid than relying on someone's memory of events from 30 years ago.

171 posted on 02/10/2004 9:45:12 AM PST by alnick
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To: jraven
You did not have to be "rich" to get privileges to not go to Vietnam.

Look this "WAR" was run by people who were not about "WINNING". LBJohnson and liberals were in control and they could have cared less about "WINNING".

LBJohnson declared "WAR" on poverty of all things, and look what was actually destroyed so we could have poverty peace the liberal way.

Vietnam is still communist and there is more poverty than before LBJ. Poverty is not just about $$$$$$$$$$ look how depraved many in this nation are in all areas.

We have a sitting senator who would "VOTE" to send young men and women to WAR and then so he can further his presidential campaign, refuses to VOTE to FUND them after he sends them to WAR.

There is no way to describe such a person but "EVIL"!



172 posted on 02/10/2004 9:47:28 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: CMClay
How much military service do you have?

How much time in the reserves or National Guard?

If the answer to the above is zero, then you appear to be a carping dim-wit who ignores the facts that are present, to paint a picture of malfeasance, where the avaiable evidence points to the opposite conclusion!

Recently released records (probably recently found, too) show that GW Bush drilled 25 days (41 drill points) between Oct 72 and May 73, and 27 days (35 drill points) between May 73 and Jul 73. [A drill day can give 2 points, while an ADT day gives 1 point.] Now - as a pilot without a plane - every drill he does is of marginal benefit to the military. He isn't trained to fly other planes, he isn't trained to supervise maintenance on the planes ... so there is no NEED to have him show up and "mark time" and collect drill pay.

You also ignore the fact that the Reserves don't prevent members from relocating due to work requirements. Reservists have many different ways to satisfy their obligation, and they often move due to job changes, etc. Or do you believe the reservists become "chattel" or slaves, bound to the Military Plantation? Such is not the case. I have seen reservists who are allowed to drop out, and stop drilling, when they have work or family conflicts. They might get a general discharge under honorable conditions (i.e. - no benefits because they didn't satisfy their obligation, but no shame attached to their release.) If I recall, GW Bush got an honorable discharge, which is proof he satisfied his commitment.

And as my earlier post suggests, JUST AS THE MILITARY CAN DISCHARGE PILOTS (AND OTHERS) EARLY (THE RIF's) ... THE MILITARY ALSO WILL LET PEOPLE DROP OUT EARLY IF THE PERSON DOESN'T HAVE CRITICAL SKILLS THAT ARE ESSENTIAL (then the military will do a "stop-loss" to hold people in.)

In 1973, the Viet Nam war was essentially over (and we had won it until the Democrat Congress turned it into a defeat less than 2 years later!). The military was being down-sized. The military would be quite happy with reservists doing fewer paid drills (to save money). Only a few years later, reservists would be only paid for 24 drills in a year vs. 48 drills ... a big money saver!!

The missed flight physical was explained in my earlier post; repeating the groundless allegation is the typical Democrat policy of repeating a lie often enough, then enough stupid people will believe it, regardless of the facts!

Bush's record of service is far more distinguished than Clinton's!! Yet the same critics of Bush are silent about how a draft-dodging liar became president. Clinton signed up for a ROTC program to get his draft notice cancelled, then he didn't satisfy his ROTC commitment, and went to Britain for a Rhodes scholarship program (which he didn't complete because he was spending so much time with anti-war activities!!) Yet the people who felt Clinton was qualified for President now question GW Bush's record. AND I question those people's integrity.

Mike

173 posted on 02/10/2004 9:47:57 AM PST by Vineyard
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To: Loyal Buckeye
In any event, he has spent the most recent 3+ years in the military as Commander in Chief.

Excellent point!

174 posted on 02/10/2004 9:56:04 AM PST by mtbopfuyn
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To: redhead
Anybody watching the press briefing with McClellan?

These reporters are all Major League Clymers.

175 posted on 02/10/2004 9:59:22 AM PST by cyncooper
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To: The G Man
It won't be enough.

Next they will want video footage of him serving his duty.

If that somehow gets produced, they will demand a time machine so they can go back and see for themselves.
176 posted on 02/10/2004 10:01:23 AM PST by hirn_man
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To: cyncooper
And David Gregory (D-NBC) is being the worst of all.
177 posted on 02/10/2004 10:03:42 AM PST by EllaMinnow (If you want to send a message, call Western Union.)
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To: alnick
Press briefing going on now.

John Roberts from CBS YELLS at McClellan, demanding to know where Bush was during other months not noted in the newly produced records.

Next, the reporters are all demanding that actual people be produced by the WH who served with him.

McClellan points out that in the recent interview the question about records was asked and were produced, not the people question. He told them they are all welcome to seek out these people.

One reporter pointed to Kerry having his "Band of brothers" (yes, the reporter used the term) who are giving testimonials and where are Bush's comrades.

McClellan saying over and over these documents show the president fulfilled his duties.

Terry Moran says there's a discrepancy and he reads off the quote of "not observed" when there's a note of service.
178 posted on 02/10/2004 10:04:52 AM PST by cyncooper
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To: cyncooper
Spoke too soon. Now it's Moran (D-ABC) being clymery.
179 posted on 02/10/2004 10:06:25 AM PST by EllaMinnow (If you want to send a message, call Western Union.)
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To: hirn_man
You called it. You've got to see this feeding frenzy and these jerks have totally now changed the criteria they are demanding.

McClellan points this out and also says the issue was raised by dems who have made outrageous allegations.

He points out to Moran again that they are changing what they asked for.
180 posted on 02/10/2004 10:07:25 AM PST by cyncooper
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To: redlipstick
I have to say Roberts and Moran outdid Gregory, though they're all being supreme jerks.

181 posted on 02/10/2004 10:08:05 AM PST by cyncooper
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To: WorkingClassFilth
I just bookmarked it, too.

I wonder what LIE Terry McAwful will conjure up next...

stay tuned......

JOHaNoi Jane KERRY
 

182 posted on 02/10/2004 10:08:48 AM PST by buffyt (JOHaNoi Jane KERRY)
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To: cyncooper
I missed Roberts. Who's Elizabeth?
183 posted on 02/10/2004 10:09:09 AM PST by EllaMinnow (If you want to send a message, call Western Union.)
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To: cyncooper
Oh Good Grief ... are you watching this news breifing

These idiot reporters remind me of the question they would ask Rummy during the war

My favorite stupid question was from Gregory .. Can the President release his tax return from over 30 years ago

184 posted on 02/10/2004 10:10:21 AM PST by Mo1 (" Do you want a president who injects poison into his skull for vanity?")
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To: redlipstick
I didn't recognize her, but we can see where they are going next. She asked about five times if the paydates = days he was there serving. Watch for them to be scouring to find one day that doesn't match up.

They are making me sick.
185 posted on 02/10/2004 10:10:24 AM PST by cyncooper
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To: All
Not that I really care - cuz god knows as a put-upon Massachusian, I dread Kerry - but GWB was a weenie (back in his youth) for not going to Vietnam.

He's still a better choice, given the Islamic hordes.

186 posted on 02/10/2004 10:10:58 AM PST by StatesEnemy
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To: Clinton's a liar
You were in the Reserves for a long time weren't you? Tell everyone here what it is like, it isn't a picnic~
187 posted on 02/10/2004 10:11:22 AM PST by buffyt (JOHaNoi Jane KERRY)
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To: cyncooper; Howlin
Gad, I hate the mainstream media. Top of the hour ABC radio news says president is "having to answer" for his National Guard service from 30+ years ago. Meanwhile, Kerry doesn't have to answer anything but questions about what he had for breakfast.
188 posted on 02/10/2004 10:11:35 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun
Kerry looks like a tall sad tree.
189 posted on 02/10/2004 10:12:38 AM PST by buffyt (JOHaNoi Jane KERRY)
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To: StatesEnemy
Thanks for sharing that. That's real special.

Whatever he did back then, he does NOT deserve the crap that's being ladled out by the gallon from these hateful reporters.

190 posted on 02/10/2004 10:12:41 AM PST by cyncooper
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To: Luis Gonzalez
LOL. Nice.
191 posted on 02/10/2004 10:12:46 AM PST by Petronski (John Kerry looks like . . . like . . . weakness.)
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To: buffyt
Oh, great. Next you're gonna bring up CGEB.
192 posted on 02/10/2004 10:13:46 AM PST by Xenalyte (I may not agree with your bumper sticker, but I'll defend to the death your right to stick it)
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To: anniegetyourgun
I despise these jerks.
193 posted on 02/10/2004 10:13:46 AM PST by cyncooper
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To: familyofman
>> it would be nice to have other NG members who were also present on those days come forward and verify attendance.

Not. That is just a waste of money and it will convince anyone to change their minds.
194 posted on 02/10/2004 10:13:51 AM PST by PattonReincarnated (Rebuild the Temple)
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To: The G Man
it is magnanimity of largest sort for the President of the United States, especially this one, to be bothered to respond to the sniping of fleas on his ankle about his past military service.

As a matter of fact, his present military service, as Commander and Chief of United States Armed Forces, is exemplary, in my opinion, and will be remembered by history as among the wisest and most effective.

195 posted on 02/10/2004 10:15:02 AM PST by the invisib1e hand (do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
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To: cyncooper
I wonder just how many "investigations" of the Bush administration the lib/dems and their friends in the press will have on-going from now until October. The piling on is something that is designed to confuse the American electorate.
196 posted on 02/10/2004 10:16:57 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: PattonReincarnated
other NG members who were also present on those days come forward and verify attendance.

Oh good grief. Who would want to get involved with this media feedy frenzy. If one person steps forward then his record will be under scrutiny. And just get slammed for lying for GWB.

197 posted on 02/10/2004 10:17:20 AM PST by noexcuses
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To: cyncooper
Thanks for sharing that. That's real special.

Chill out, eh?

Given that we will be fighting this new asymmetrical warfare, off and on for the next 100 years, I think it would do us well to expect our future leaders to walk the walk in their youth.

Call me crazy, but I bristle at the idea of an elite ruling class which shirks its most basic duties - WHATEVER POLITICAL BANNER they march under.

198 posted on 02/10/2004 10:17:37 AM PST by StatesEnemy
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To: StatesEnemy
I'm as cool as a cucumber, but thanks for caring.
199 posted on 02/10/2004 10:18:50 AM PST by cyncooper
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To: cyncooper
Poor liberal "reporters." They must be crestfallen that he produced the records. Now they're just thrashing about, confused and angry that they've lost yet another talking point.
200 posted on 02/10/2004 10:18:55 AM PST by MizSterious (First, the journalists, THEN the lawyers.)
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