Victor Davis Hanson: Just Imagine... Trying to believe in the make-believe world of the present age.

NRO ^ | 02/13/2004 | Victor Davis Hanson

[Tolik]

Victor Davis Hanson moral clarity huge BUMP  [please freepmail me if you want or don't want to be pinged to Victor Davis Hanson articles]

If you want to bookmark his articles discussed at FR: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/k-victordavishanson/browse

His NRO archive: http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson-archive.asp

[Dog]

Thanks!

[metesky]

And so we get fantasy in place of reality.

Summation bump.

[RottiBiz]

Thanks for posting this lucid contrast to the lies and propaganda we are subjected to on a daily basis.

[schu]

ping for later

[FreedomPoster]

Oh, my! THAT'S going to leave a mark.

Bump.

[FreedomPoster]

Oh, my! THAT'S going to leave a mark.

Bump.

[FreedomPoster]

Oops, sry for the double.

[Tolik]

Double BUMP and apology BUMP plus my it's OK response BUMP makes it 4 BUMPs for the price of one BUMP. :))

[Valin]

Victor hits another one out of the park.


As an aside. Say the "road map" actually happens(Gee toto I don't think we're in Kansas anymore). What happens to the Gaza?
Is it divided from the westbank by Israel? Physically divided nations don't work.
Does it become a seperate nation?
Does Israel keep control?
Do Israel and Egypt divide it between them?
Does Israel give up land to provide a corridor between Gaza and the west Bank?(YA like THAT'S gonna happen)

[FreedomPoster]

Give it to Egypt and call it a day. Isn't worth anything, anyway.

[Valin]

The problem is The Gaza Strip is a stake pointing right into the heart of Israel. In the 6 day war there never was any debate about taking Gaza, there was about the West Bank.

[Tolik]

I don't know if this question was raised at all during Camp-David agreements with Egypt. Playing with IF theory: Egypt was motivated enough to make that agreement and get to the US tit, Israel should have insisted that Gaza population would relocate to Sinai settlements (Sharon himself was clearing Jews out of there and destroying the homes), vacate the Gaza and become Egypt citizens. Population exchange with big land win for Arabs (Sinai). Too bad it did not happen.

[crazycat]

Tks for the post.

A voice of sanity in a World gone mad.

[Valin]

Hey. I don't have the answers I'm just asking questions.
The underlying problem is on one side you have people who want peace and are willing to bite the bullet to get it, and on the other you don't. And until one side decides that murder and terrorism and not the answer there won't be peace. And it's going require one side to completly overthrow their political leadership in order for this to happen.

[tet68]

Oh, my! THAT'S going to leave a mark.

They should put some fantasy ice on it.

Of course this succinct piece will sail right over the heads of those who are the object of it.

[Akira]

Gaza was discussed during Camp David. Under Arab pressure to not make a separate peace, Sadat kept trying to group Palestinian agreements into the deal. Begin would have none of it. Most focus was on the West Bank, but Gaza was also mentioned. In the end, Carter presumed (correctly) that Sadat cared little for the Palestinians, the rest is history.

[JasonC]

It is curious. His point is that they cannot possibly actually believe this drivel, but are simply flailing around for any stick to beat their political opponents with. Of some of them I don't doubt that it is true. But how do the various lines work, if nobody falls for any given one of them?

It seems to me they intended targets of this sort of propaganda never bother to collect enough thoughts to have this unified a view of it. Each line is meant to dismiss the whole matter, to put it in a box and be done with it, in a way that reassures the believer and banishes opposing arguments.

As fantasy it is fragmented, in other words. Sustained thought about any of it is not involved. Past the first sentence of any one of the imaginary positions, there is only emotion, not further thought. They are not living in the real world - that is true. But that they don't believe it themselves, that is not really true.

[Tolik]

Thanks.

I still don't know what Israel really gained in Camp-David. Yes, there is no hot war with Egypt and Israelis can visit tourist sites. But, there is no principal difference between cold peace now and no war condition otherwise. Official Egypt propaganda against Israel is bad as ever. Sinai was an excellent buffer, so the border hostilities would be far removed. Egypt would not have $2bln US money to buy weapons, and Israel would not get into too much of dependence with it's $3bln. That also would force them into economic reforms away from too much government socialism in their economy.

Anti-Israel rhetoric in Europe and Arab world is bad now regardless of any concessions Israel did or ready to do. So, what was the point?

I agree with Valin of course, that all talk is pointless until there are two sides ready to compromise. One is not enough.