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School Budgets, Teaching and Teachers {Ron Smith}
WBAL AM-RADIO Baltimore ^ | Friday, February 13, 2004 | Ron Smith

Posted on 02/14/2004 7:18:36 AM PST by George Frm Br00klyn Park

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To: Amelia
As a parent who cares I can tell you "working with" the Teacher is often a huge waste of time. After 3 1/2 years and countless wasted hours talking to Liberal automatons we threw in the towel. We enrolled our daughter mid-year in private school. She was behind her class but by the end of the year, caught up. This year she is top ten.
121 posted on 02/16/2004 8:02:32 PM PST by moehoward
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To: Amelia
I think actually it was parents who didn't want their children feeling shuffled away, hidden, and isolated, and so asked for them to be mainstreamed.

I would never consider "hiding" anyone away, no matter what the handicap, but I can see some of the parents' logic behind their wish to have their children mainstreamed. Also, non-handicapped children benefit from spending time with disabled students -- it takes away the stigma of the handicap and gives the kids a better understanding of the many ways God made us.

But I feel sorry for the child who's not quite up to speed with his classmates. My concern is that this child will become the victim of a self-fulfilling prophecy -- he believes he's stupid because he's always the last one to finish. So he never develops the desire to try, because, no matter how hard he works, he comes in last. In a class with his peers, he would experience competition and success along with his failures. Personally, I think that's a healthier situation for mildly disabled children.

122 posted on 02/16/2004 8:17:49 PM PST by reformed_democrat
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To: netmilsmom
I again asked what we could do and this woman looked me in the eye and said, "I don't know."

Infuriating, I know. My son's teacher refused to believe he couldn't work with his desk facing another student's desk (that "Island" concept -- two desks side-by-side, facing two others). I asked her to move him, but she refused.

One day, she decided to "punish" him by isolating him at a desk by himself in the front of the class. For three days, he was happy as a clam and getting his work done. I made the mistake of thanking her for doing what I'd requested. She promptly moved him back to the island, he promptly pulled out his book and started reading.

123 posted on 02/16/2004 8:27:19 PM PST by reformed_democrat
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To: Richard Kimball
The latter. Thanks for your post. Nice to hear from you, Richard! :)
124 posted on 02/16/2004 9:11:02 PM PST by summer
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To: Amelia
I can't understand why all the FReepers who claim this aren't rushing to be "overpaid" as we teachers are. Are you overpaid for what you do? Wouldn't you like to be?

Yes, I would love to be an "overpaid" teacher. Just for your information, I have a doctorate in education and am certified to teach in Florida. I tried to obtain a teaching position last year, but alas, I'm an old white guy. They need not apply. Oh, and by the way, I would have made much less than a Baltimore teacher and would have had a lot more minority students than most Baltimore teachers. And don't give me that junk about working after hours to grade papers and such. What, you think most professionals work only 40 hours a week? Get real. Ask some IT guy how many hours they spent off the job updating thier skills. How about you talk to an accountant and see how many hours they're working this month? That is if you can ever find them at home during tax season.

Bottom line. Yes, I would love to be an "overpaid" teacher and I will try again this year but I think my chances as an old white guy are pretty slim, regardless of my qualifications.

125 posted on 02/17/2004 3:22:40 AM PST by FLAUSA
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To: moehoward
As a parent myself, I've also had problems with some teachers. As a teacher, I've found parents who care and parents who can't be contacted at all, and parents in between.

I'm glad things worked out well for your daughter. I don't think public schools are the same in every area, and I don't think they are right for every child. Personally, I'd have preferred parochial schools for my child, if there had been any within 50 miles.
126 posted on 02/17/2004 3:24:45 AM PST by Amelia (I have trouble taking some people seriously.)
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To: reformed_democrat
I agree with your #122 totally.
127 posted on 02/17/2004 3:27:20 AM PST by Amelia (I have trouble taking some people seriously.)
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To: FLAUSA
What, you think most professionals work only 40 hours a week?

No, I don't. Been there, done that. Actually, teaching is a second career for me, and I took a huge pay cut when I began teaching. I could give you pros & cons all day long, but then everyone would think I was complaining about how horrible teaching is.

Believe me, if I thought it totally horrible, I'd go back to my old profession, but I don't think I'm overpaid compared to what I could be making elsewhere - then again, I have a technical degree, and that's in demand both in teaching and in "real life".

Yes, I would love to be an "overpaid" teacher and I will try again this year but I think my chances as an old white guy are pretty slim, regardless of my qualifications.

What field? I don't know what part of Florida you're in, but in my area, teachers are always in demand, and I don't think your age would be a problem.

Some fields are less in demand than others, however.

128 posted on 02/17/2004 3:36:26 AM PST by Amelia (I have trouble taking some people seriously.)
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To: Amelia
"What field? I don't know what part of Florida you're in, but in my area, teachers are always in demand, and I don't think your age would be a problem."

Middle school math and high school business. I'm in Escambia County and we're always crying about needing teachers and the pay's too low. However, when you can find all the teachers you need at the "low" starting pay, then there is no shortage. I will admit that they had to hire teachers who were not certified, but hey, they were minorities. Half the teachers hired last year were black, while 20% or the county is black. Go figure!

So in your area, what percentage of white guys did they hire last year? Look around your school and tell me what percentage of teachers are white guys? Ya, I thought so!

129 posted on 02/17/2004 3:56:20 AM PST by FLAUSA
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To: Amelia
If you'll read Mills and PARC, you'll see that those decisions relied on the equal protection and due process clauses of the Constitution.

Yes, the "Equal Protection" clause has been used a lot by the courts, just as the "Commerce Clause" has been used by Congress to imply that Congress can pass whatever legislation it wants to as long as it can make a hand-wave to the commerce clause

The position of the various courts these days, seems to be that no government funding of any activity is allowed unless every identifiable group benefits equally from it. Thus you may not fund libraries for people to read in, unless illiterate vagrants are allowed to also use the facility as an informal shelter. Thus you are not allowed to fund public schooling unless each identifiable group comes out with an equal level of educational attainment (which is the point of "No Child Left Behind").

In this legal climate, government funding (especially federal funding) of any activity comes with a huge mass of strings attached.

The only solution, once the system has been made sufficiently unworkable, is to abandon it entirely, as increasing numbers of middle-class parents are doing. Up until now, the upper-middle-class has been able to escape the social pathologies of the underclass by moving deeper and deeper into the suburbs. As soon as that approach becomes no longer workable, you will see increasing middle-class support for radical change

130 posted on 02/17/2004 4:04:41 AM PST by SauronOfMordor (No anchovies!)
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To: netmilsmom
I pulled my daughter to homeschool because they wanted to label her ADD. She is now six and in the middle of the 2nd grade curriculum. She could not perform with the chaos in her classrooms.

I did the same with my middle daughter in 1st grade. She would get into these upset crying episodes in the late morning, and they wanted to drug her to calm her down. Later on, as I was able to more closely observe her at home, I discovered that she was hypoglycemic (my wife's side runs to diabetes and hypoglycemia), her episodes were due to low blood sugar, and the fix was to just make sure she had a high-protein breakfast

131 posted on 02/17/2004 4:08:07 AM PST by SauronOfMordor (No anchovies!)
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To: reformed_democrat
Why is this impossible to achieve?

… because NOT ALL third graders will be reading at the third grade level. SOME will be more advanced, and SOME will be behind their peers. The “No Child Left Behind Act” mandates that NONE will be behind their peers … and NONE will be more advanced. This is impossible.

132 posted on 02/17/2004 4:17:49 AM PST by bimbo
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To: reformed_democrat
Having a sister who is a teacher, I know that with some teachers it is just control.
133 posted on 02/17/2004 5:13:56 AM PST by netmilsmom (Don't put a question mark where God put a period.)
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To: bimbo
And why NCLB is such a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously and why more and more states will decide to opt out.



134 posted on 02/17/2004 5:25:37 AM PST by ladylib
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To: bimbo
The “No Child Left Behind Act” mandates that NONE will be behind their peers … and NONE will be more advanced.

It does NOT mandate that none will be more advanced.

135 posted on 02/17/2004 5:36:48 PM PST by Amelia (I have trouble taking some people seriously.)
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To: FLAUSA
So in your area, what percentage of white guys did they hire last year? Look around your school and tell me what percentage of teachers are white guys?

We're in a high minority area, and our teaching staff reflects that, but there were several white guys hired last year. I don't know the exact percentage of the new teachers that would have been, but 100% of the new teachers in my dept were white guys, and I think 50% of the new social studies teachers were. I don't think we had any new math teachers last year.

Where we are, the schools can't hire non-certified teachers if there are certified teachers available. I don't know how your district gets away with it.

136 posted on 02/17/2004 5:43:25 PM PST by Amelia (I have trouble taking some people seriously.)
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To: SauronOfMordor
That's very interesting, beside crying jags were there any other symptoms?
137 posted on 02/17/2004 5:48:46 PM PST by BoozeHag
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To: SauronOfMordor
As soon as that approach becomes no longer workable, you will see increasing middle-class support for radical change

I seriously see NCLB as an attempt to begin that change. I've been really surprised at the number of FReepers who reject attempts to bring accountability to public education.

138 posted on 02/17/2004 5:49:27 PM PST by Amelia (I have trouble taking some people seriously.)
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To: BoozeHag
That's very interesting, beside crying jags were there any other symptoms?

As her blood sugar lowered, she would become increasingly irritable, obsessive/compulsive (everything had to be done one certain way), and irrational until something finally set her off, and she would go into a crying jag lasting up to 15 minutes until she fell asleep. Giving her fruit juice or soda would make her better immediately, which gave me the big clue as to what was going on. Changing her diet to cut out processed flour and sugar for breakfast, and add in meat was the long-term fix

139 posted on 02/18/2004 2:44:18 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (No anchovies!)
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To: Amelia
I seriously see NCLB as an attempt to begin that change. I've been really surprised at the number of FReepers who reject attempts to bring accountability to public education.

It brings some accountability, at the cost of a radical shift in resource allocation. It's the latter that bothers a lot of parents, with the stress on bringing up the bottom 10%, at the cost of the education of the other 90%

140 posted on 02/18/2004 2:48:11 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (No anchovies!)
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