RALLY REPORT - Kaloogian and Tancredo ROCK Republican Convention in California!

Howard Kaloogian for U.S. Senate ^ | 02/22/2004 | Me

[FairOpinion]

"Naw, keep bumping this thread."

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I have not problem with that -- more people will read that the so called "conservative movement" has been compromised and is really nothing but an anti-Bush movement hiding under the conservative mantle.

[CounterCounterCulture]

In other words he did NOT discourage the audience from booing the President.

Actually, he did.

Man, this is getting too easy with you.

[Impeach98]

Yes, Kaloogian and Tancredo BOTH have been very good about how they have opposed the President's plan. They've been very respectful, but nonetheless have not minced their opposition. I think they have been perfect in articulating the conservative opposition to the amnesty plan.

[Jennikins]

Re Your #81. Right on!

[FairOpinion]

"So, on WHAT issues are Republicans allowed to disagree with their president "


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NOTHING, in an election year, when the President is from your own party, unless you prefer a Democrat's stand on those issues.

[ovrtaxt]

By posting an anti-immigration thread such as this, I have no choice but to conclude that you are a troll. You have succumbed to the 'Moby' mind control that is sweeping the conservative population. I shall alert the Mods at once. < /sarcasm>

[Impeach98]

No, Kaloogian did not discourage the audience from booing the amnesty plan. In fact, he made the point that the proponents of the plan can insist all they want that it is NOT 'amnesty' but it is... and as Kaloogian perfectly calls it, it is 'amnesty on the installment plan' - an amnesty plan that has these 3 year extension options.

His opposition was delivered in such a way that if Bush and Kaloogian were on a stage delivering their arguments and debating their points of view you'd have a landslide in favor of Kaloogian on the issue.

That doesn't mean Republicans don't like Bush on other issues, but obviously on this one, Kaloogian argues the Republican line.

You do know this was Vincente Fox's plan. I'm not trying to make an outlandish charge here. It was actually revealed in an interview in Time magazine. They were praising Fox for being the one who first came up with this plan... back when Bush was governor of Texas. And Fox tried to get Bush to help him push the plan in the U.S.

That's what Bush is now doing.

Bush is great in fighting terrorists. He's great in pushing for lower taxes. He's with the pro-life community in opposing abortion (albeit quietly).

But he is rather abysmal on immigration (and vetoing spending bills for that matter).

That makes him 10 times better than Kerry, but still wrong on those two issues (immigration and excessive spending). The congressional Republicans are wrong on spending too. And guess what - Kaloogian's been outspoken about this too! It makes him a great Republican. He actually fights for Republican beliefs and is not ashamed to hold them, even if the media doesn't like his views.

[Impeach98]

LOL :)

I also brought up excessive spending! (feels ashamed at betraying the conservative cause)

[Joe Hadenuf]

all that Bill Jones and GWBush need to do is...get on the right side of this "issue". Or else...they're going to go down over it. Now that Mr. Gobernator has gone sideways on licenses, doing an about face from his campaign, we can easily point to the consequences of appeasing the RINO front in the Republican Party. No one trusts him now.

Bump that...Recall the SOB....

[Impeach98]

I would use different words on this. Did he "discourage" the audience booing the immigration plan? Not so much as spun it around which was "we need to let our leaders know that whether it is amnesty or drivers' license the people of America have very strong views and we want you to realize you are going against them" (paraphrase)

It was the argument many have made here in the past few months... help the PResident (and now Arnold) save themselves from pushing bad proposals.

Is that discouraging 'booing' or is that saying "let's rechannel the emotion and energy into making sure that these proposals don't go forward" - I guess it's tomato - tomAto... depending on how you look at it.

[Joe Hadenuf]

It's just a lame attempt at game playing and lip service by this administration to halt the tide of the GOP's mutineers.

That's painfully clear.

[DiamondDon1]

Fair:

On this one, I am with you. One does not solidify a party by taking time out to go against the top dog in order to gain conservative support. I am against illegal immigrants getting anything but sent home, but one must use decorum when talking about the President or the President's plan.

Perhaps more time should have been used for attacking the wacked out liberal and not splitting the party.

DD

P.S. How exactly does Howard overcome the S.F. Dems (the recall LOST in S.F.) and their undying support for Boxer? Just wondering...

[Impeach98]

Well, we have a choice.

We can listen to you who think that Republicans should not stand for Republican principles during an Election Year.

Or we can follow Howard Kaloogian who was a Bush Sr. delegate from Michigan in 1988 and was one of the first California Republican Legislators to sign the Bush endorsement letter in 2000.

I think that Howard's history, and his record in the State Assembly (three terms and six years of keeping his conservative Republican campaign promises, being a leader in the recall effort against Gray Davis, and heading up the Defend Reagan Committee to defend President Reagan from the CBS/Viacom smear campaign), opposing amnesty and drivers' licenses for illegal aliens and overspending by the Congress make him a better Republican than you, who believes we should NOT defend Republican principles during an Election Year.

But that's just me ;)

[KantianBurke]

"This is supposed to be a representative government "of the people." Given that 70% of the people want illegals deported, just who the hell do you think you are telling us to kowtow just because of a rotten proposal from the President? Blind and self-destructive obeiscance isn't going to get him re-elected."

Mega bump!!

[CounterCounterCulture]

I recall his holding up his hands as to say "easy, easy" and then followed up with how he would work with President Bush and Presidente Fox for sensible solutions to the immigration issues, not the current plans as proposed by those leaders.

Is that discouraging 'booing' or is that saying "let's rechannel the emotion and energy into making sure that these proposals don't go forward" - I guess it's tomato - tomAto... depending on how you look at it.

Fair enough ;-)

[KantianBurke]

"We want our children to live the American Dream, not the Mexican Nightmare."

Damn righ bump!!

[Impeach98]

I don't think you should be agreeing with Fair unless you were there or until you watch the footage. The strongest attacks made by Tancredo and Kaloogian were on Vincente Fox, Barbara Boxer and in side notes, Gavin Newsome.

There's a big difference between attacking an amnesty plan and attacking a person.

Fair Opinion since Day 1 has been outraged that the base of the Republican party is upset about the amnesty plan.

He/she does not recognize that the political miscalculation being made here is not Kaloogian for standing up for his principles he's held all his life, or for that matter the ideology that Republicans espouse, but that it is the President's advisors who told him 'yeah, support the Vincente Fox plan, that'll win you votes."

It won't - it will just cause strain between him and his conservative base. He needs them motivated and energize. Attacking Republican principles is not the way to do that.

[Impeach98]

Ahhh, you are correct. That was when he made his point that he's made to us when we've discussed this issue. Kaloogian thinks that instead of appeasing Fox we need to be taking the bat to Fox saying 'the wink and the nod approach to your people telling them it's good to come to the U.S. illegally, earn higher wages and send them back to Mexico' has got to stop.

Yeah, Howard loves that point, and you are right he did bring that up at that point in the rally when the audience was riled up about the "amnesty plan that they say isn't an amnesty plan"

[Joe Hadenuf]

I am against illegal immigrants getting anything but sent home, but one must use decorum when talking about the President or the President's plan.

Decorum has a tendency to get trampled after watching the two beltway parties stand in treasonous stone silence for 25 years, while our country has been literally over run with multiple millions of people pouring in illegally.

It's beyond polite chat over tea, and business as usual, political decorum..If this nationwide massive lawlessness is not stopped in the near future, terms like polite political decorum, will be a relic of the past along with the well entrenched, two beltway parties in DC.

[calcowgirl]

I am speechless. Of all the people to quote the LA Times... it was FO!
The irony of it all. LOL.