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THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST.. (It's here!!).. Live thread!
Your Right Wing Chef ^ | Feb 23 2004 | Carlo3b

Posted on 02/23/2004 4:56:38 PM PST by carlo3b

THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST.. (A HIT OR A MISS?).. Live thread!

Contrary to popular media pronouncements, the first of the commercial showing of this long awaited, landmark, and controversial film has already debuted and the misconceptions that the fate of this endeavor hangs in the balance.. That is HOGWASH.. The Passion of the Christ is on the brink of a record breaking opening, in spite of the limited available screens, and the all out, and outragous efforts on the part of the National Media's near unanimous rejection, and the Hollywood establishment roadblocks to stymie this motion picture and it's brilliant and courageous director/producer..

I just receive a call from friends that attended a church sponsored midday showing of the movie with more than 850 of their fellow flock. The collective response was "it was sobering and breathtaking, and they existed with a profound feeling of moral inadequacy".

I toyed with the idea of accepting an invitation to book a private showing at a local theater for this weekend, however after calling a few local churches to help fill the seats I discovered that all (I call 12) of the parishes and neighborhood churches had already secured their own private dates with sellout crowds.. Every one of them had sold the seats within a day of their announcements... I just may book a threater in three weeks for all of my friends and family, that wish to watch it again, and again..

Your comments...



TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: cantfinditontv; catholic; gibson; hollywood; isitontv; livethreadabuse; melgibson; movie; passion; thepassion; thepassionofchrist; thisisntlive; whatchannel; whereisitlive; whyisthisalivethread
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To: Pyro7480
There is a difference between saying the same exact thing over and over in a row and praying about something a lot.
351 posted on 02/25/2004 11:07:38 AM PST by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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To: rwfromkansas
Bump to the Top
352 posted on 02/25/2004 11:58:51 AM PST by prairiebreeze (Decide for yourself! See "Passion of The Christ.")
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To: hosepipe
These are excerpts from Yahoo! News   Wed, Feb 25, 2004
.....
Asked by Bart and Guber about the movie's afterlife, Gibson intimated it would be fiercely protected: "It's like one of your children," he posited, explaining he didn't envision any extra shots or sequences for the eventual DVD edition.

He also said his company would ride close herd on the subtitling abroad to make sure the translations were in sync with the original English. He seemed to be uninterested in an eventual network airing: Unlikely, he said, given that "we'd want them to do it in one piece, with no commercials."

As for what he'll do after resting a while in his hammock, Gibson hinted there were myriad other stories in the Bible that deserve celluloid treatment.

"There are good stories in that book --- it's worth looking into them."

YO, ABE FOXMAN... HE IS GOING TO DO IT AGAIN!!!!!!. HA!


353 posted on 02/25/2004 12:27:21 PM PST by carlo3b (http://www.CookingWithCarlo.com)
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Comment #354 Removed by Moderator

To: carlo3b
Just saw it, it is brilliant, disturbing. Not only did I feel Christs pain , bot Mels also!
355 posted on 02/25/2004 12:53:49 PM PST by since1868
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To: xJones
I went to our local theater in the Texas torrential cold rain today to get our tickets for 9:45 tonight. Everything else was sold out for earlier in the evening. Lake Jackson is getting drenched today.
356 posted on 02/25/2004 1:00:01 PM PST by buffyt (Kerry is now one of those (communists) who we fought against. {Aloha Ronnie quote})
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To: aznative
Welcome Newbie.
357 posted on 02/25/2004 1:06:15 PM PST by AZamericonnie
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To: carlo3b
my in-laws just saw it. They are 75 &76 years old. They told me this is going to start a new age in BELIEF! They were so moved that they got tickets for the rest of the family.
358 posted on 02/25/2004 1:09:16 PM PST by JFC
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To: aznative
Support your local saviour

I think that is disrespectful.

359 posted on 02/25/2004 1:10:10 PM PST by T Minus Four
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To: prairiebreeze
How about some instead?
360 posted on 02/25/2004 1:15:29 PM PST by CJ Wolf
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Comment #361 Removed by Moderator

To: carlo3b
Did anyone see Drudges Headline?

HEART ATTACK DURING 'PASSION OF CHRIST'; WOMAN PRONOUNCED DEAD AFTER VIEWING FILM IN KANSAS


WOW!
362 posted on 02/25/2004 1:17:15 PM PST by Vision (Always Faithful)
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To: buffyt
I went to our local theater in the Texas torrential cold rain today to get our tickets for 9:45 tonight. Everything else was sold out for earlier in the evening. Lake Jackson is getting drenched today.

"I know Lake Lewisville, and I know Lake Grapevine, but who is Lake Jackson?"

A bad take-off of Acts 19:15 - but I also know Lake Ray Roberts and Lake Joe Pool. I still don't know Lake Jackson.:D

I've got tickets for 6:15 and I've been trying to get ready for it all day.

363 posted on 02/25/2004 1:22:31 PM PST by xJones
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To: All
I just went to the first public showing here in rainy Augusta, GA. I arrived at 11 for the 12 noon start. I was 15th online to get in, yet there were at least 150 more waiting to get pick up their tickets at the ticket window. The local CBS affiliate was there filming the crowd (of all networks, eh?)

I am Catholic, went to Catholic schools and this film was outstanding! As the lashings began, I could hear quite a few people in the crowd sobbing and crying. I sat high up and could only see 1 gentleman get up and leave...but that was a good five minutes after the lashings.

To me, there was no blame tacked on to any particular group. I tried to see the things the NYT reviewer saw... but I didn't. Roger Ebert's review was very fair, as was the guy from our local paper.

I don't know how the reaction around the U.S. will be, but when the film credits started, the theater was full of applause...which just happened to read "Directed by Mel Gibson".

Good job, Mel. You done good! ;)

364 posted on 02/25/2004 1:38:06 PM PST by AJ504 (...part of the VRWC taking over GA!)
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To: MasterCommie_hunter
Wrong place for your comments. That's why people are jumping on you. You're perceived as a disruptor (which is what you are). You're not here to add to the thread, but to detract or distract. Your comments may be valid, but not on this particular thread

Go back and read the original post and you'll see what this thread was intended to be about. Your comments are WAY OVER THE TOP, especially in your post #157.

I suggest you give it a rest, disruptor. We can all see you for what you are.

365 posted on 02/25/2004 1:41:29 PM PST by my_pointy_head_is_sharp
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To: netmilsmom
Well said!
366 posted on 02/25/2004 1:54:30 PM PST by T Minus Four
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To: carlo3b
I returned from seeing it a few hours ago.

I really have no words to express how I feel about this film. It's stunning in every regard. Truly the movie of my lifetime.

367 posted on 02/25/2004 2:40:56 PM PST by Clintons a commie
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To: carlo3b
You were right I didn't get past the credits before I couldn't swallow anything more than a soda.. :)

That would explain why our theater is selling package deals complete with popcorn for 13.50.

they would not have sold the food otherwise.

368 posted on 02/25/2004 2:46:13 PM PST by Cold Heat (In politics stupidity is not a handicap. --Napoleon Bonapart)
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To: carlo3b
Saw it this afternoon at a movie complex in Pittsburgh. The complex had 2 1:30 PM showings and a 2:00 showing. The theater I was in was about 95% full for one of the 1:30 showings.

Well done and very moving film. Yes it was graphic, but it is telling the story the way it happened.

369 posted on 02/25/2004 3:23:52 PM PST by Dane
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To: dansangel; .45MAN; carlo3b
It has made me ashamed that I have not been more of a Christian to the people around me. Today I am not the same person that I was yesterday and I hope that I will have the faith to stay that way the rest of my life. I cried. I don't know how a human could not, watching what went Christ went through and what Mary went through as his mother. I thank Mel Gibson for such a gift to all Christians.

You know, Mel Gibson is also setting the example for all of us. Look at all he put on the line for this Passion of his, enduring so much in personal attacks and criticism, refusing to let the walls so many tried to put up from stopping him, and even now continues to stand strong against the tidal wave of slander, hate and distortions.

May God continue to strengthen Mel and may He help us to be as fearless as Mel as we fight for all that is dear to us and to God.

370 posted on 02/25/2004 4:03:49 PM PST by Ladysmith
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To: Ladysmith; carlo3b; .45MAN
May God continue to strengthen Mel and may He help us to be as fearless as Mel as we fight for all that is dear to us and to God.

A resounding *AMEN* (((Ladysmith)))

371 posted on 02/25/2004 4:09:37 PM PST by dansangel (*PROUD to be a knuckle-dragging, toothless, inbred, right-wing, Southern, gun-toting Neanderthal *)
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To: rwfromkansas
"Do you not read your Scripture? Do not engage in vain repetition, which Jesus Christ condemns as sinful."

With all due respect, if you think the Rosary (which is a meditation on the life of Christ) is 'vain repetition', you are misinformed (deliberately, or otherwise).

I'll say a rosary for you too.

372 posted on 02/25/2004 4:27:51 PM PST by formerDem (God writes straight with crooked lines.)
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To: rwfromkansas
"God doesn't just have the ability to choose, he does choose to work through people.....every single person in the world. Even the wicked are used of God for his purposes."

I agree with you. I just used different words.

373 posted on 02/25/2004 4:29:33 PM PST by formerDem (God writes straight with crooked lines.)
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To: rwfromkansas
It is the vanity in prayer which Christ condemns, not the repetition. Contemplate Matthew 26:44. Do you think Christ was sinning in His paryer to His Father?
374 posted on 02/25/2004 4:42:19 PM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: dansangel
((((dansangel)))) in return! :o)
375 posted on 02/25/2004 5:24:14 PM PST by Ladysmith
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To: Dane
Best quote from the all the TV interviewsa today was a young woman just leaving the theater who said:

"It'll make me think twice before I sin again!"
376 posted on 02/25/2004 6:36:29 PM PST by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: carlo3b

377 posted on 02/25/2004 6:46:28 PM PST by RJayneJ
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To: carlo3b
Thanks for the ping. Saw the film this evening and posted my review on the reaction thread over in Religion.
378 posted on 02/25/2004 8:47:00 PM PST by P.O.E.
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To: carlo3b
Diotima and I saw it tonight. She was crying and I had to avert my eyes every now and then.
379 posted on 02/25/2004 9:08:08 PM PST by Bob J (www.freerepublic.net www.radiofreerepublic.com...check them out!)
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To: carlo3b
I had to see it twice today



The first time, I was 30 minutes late. I heard almost everyone in the theater crying, and it was only at the beginning of the trial before Caiphas, Judas was just throwing back the 30 pieces of silver.



I wondered what the movie would be like



It is like asking people who call themselves Bible believers, Don’t you already believe what God said in His word? Why do you have to see it acted out?



The first thing I thought of was this:



(Mat 12:38 KJV) Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.



(Mat 12:39 KJV) But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:





So, knowing we are in the last times, it should be normal, Catholics, Protestants, some genuine God fearing people seeing a newest Jesus flick



But it was more than that.



I know why He went through what He did in the movie, but I wonder how many other people really knew why He had to suffer so much?



He was beaten with rods, whipped with the flagella, spit upon, struck, kicked, beat up by the Romans more than any war movie ever made.





(Isa 53:5 KJV) But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.



(Isa 53:6 KJV) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.



(Isa 53:7 KJV) He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.



(Isa 53:8 KJV) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.



(Isa 53:9 KJV) And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.



(Isa 53:10 KJV) Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.



To see it, knowing that it was for me He died, I wept softly almost the entire time in the first theater. I guess God’s Spirit was moving more there than the second show I saw.



The second show, people were laughing, they were mocking what happened. I was amazed that people just looked at it as a movie that you need popcorn and soda for.



This was a movie about the Saviour who died on the Cross so me and you can be forgiven of our sins of we trust in Him and receive Eternal Life! And these people didn’t know.



I wanted to shout it from the rooftops, IT IS BECAUSE OF YOUR SIN AND MINE!! THAT IS WHY HE IS KILLED! THAT IS WHY HE LAID DOWN HIS LIFE FOR US!!



And the second show, the only person I head cry was me. There was no real Spirit movement this time, I just couldn’t watch it the same way anymore until Jesus was carrying His cross to His death. Knowing He died for me. He died to take the place of me and you, the death we deserve, and I knew it and I saw it, I placed myself there…but of all the people in the theater this afternoon and tonight, how many actually knew that is why he had to die?



How many just saw a wise man die? How many didn’t understand why He had to die?



How many people just sat there and ate popcorn and wondered why there was all the fuss about this movie?



Because none of them ever heard they were sinners…Because none of us believers ever let someone know they were sinners in need of a Saviour…Because we live in a Biblically ignorant society that actually is being forced to pass an amendment to our national constitution to let people know that homosexuality is wrong…all the while allowing homosexuals to have other kinds of relationships as if it is good…that any belief in whatever god is ok, but belief in Jesus Christ is something we have to apologize for, and worry about offending people of what we believe in…



(Mat 12:39 KJV) But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign;





Maybe this movie was one of the last signs for our generation.

380 posted on 02/25/2004 10:35:06 PM PST by RaceBannon (John Kerry is Vietnam's Benedict Arnold: Former War Hero turned Traitor)
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To: RaceBannon
Maybe this movie was one of the last signs for our generation.

Not so fast, my dear FRiend, there is hope.. I got it, and perhaps there are a lot more that GOT IT too.

After having taken the time to digest this film, and settling in on the impact that this experience may have on me, I think I can honestly say I finally "get it".  The "it" is why did this (the birth, crucifixion, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ) all happen, and how does it affect me and everyone else, today.

I think I discovered that we really do need to believe in something bigger than ourselves. Something untarnished, spiritual, therefore unattainable, and mighty impressive.  I mean something really big, bigger than our bank account or our flawed and mortal idols, or any Hollywood depiction's of everlasting happiness. We needed a real role model. Someone to guide us to exist amongst ourselves, with all of those the temptations, the limitless complexities, and to be there when all appears lost. We needed someone when we discover that there are no apparent answers, that is without some divine intervention.

This is where God comes in. He, (our creator, this is where faith comes in), saw that we were struggling, and were probably not going to get any better on our own. And since He is a merciful and loving God, He gave us a second chance. He sent his son, his only son, Jesus Christ, to show us "The Way".

God gave us the ability to reason, to think and make choices. However, that ability came with the capacity to mess up, and we sure did that very well. Reason is our strength, and our weakness. It was obvious that we needed someone special to rock us on a straight course to a shot at eternal bliss.. The Passion of the Christ, proved to everyone that He believed in us, so why wouldn't we believe in Him.

I really didn't mean for this to be a prayer, but why not.. Thank you God, and Bless you my Jesus Christ.. Spend your time on someone else that really needs you now, there are still so many.. because I finally got it.. Oh, and just one more thing God.. thanks for sending us Mel Gibson with his special talents to help out..


381 posted on 02/25/2004 11:11:59 PM PST by carlo3b (http://www.CookingWithCarlo.com)
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To: Bob J
I saw it again tonight, my second helping.. The impact is no less the second time, you just pick up on the things you didn't know you missed the first time around.. This time there were about 400 folks in the theater, a capacity house.. I doubt there was a dry eye in that place.. Say hi to Diotima, and tell her that her tears were surely warranted, and more than appropriate..
382 posted on 02/25/2004 11:22:05 PM PST by carlo3b (http://www.CookingWithCarlo.com)
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To: P.O.E.
Kudos, blessings, and thanks to Mel Gibson for having the courage and conviction to make this movie in this day and age...

I really hope Mel makes more than money for his courage, but I hope that he sets all of the records.. No one will ever attempt this subject again without being measured by his achievement..

383 posted on 02/25/2004 11:26:33 PM PST by carlo3b (http://www.CookingWithCarlo.com)
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To: carlo3b
A Freeping is needed here, on Foxnews's Roger Friedman who's been harping on the film non-stop for the last few months. His negative review comes as no surprise. His review is here.

Disclaimer, since you never know:

I'm not opposed to Fox News or supportive of this review! I can't wait to see the film and have supported the film, against some really angry opponents, on movie message boards which are populated by more liberals than the Democratic Convention.

Anyway, Roger Friedman has been using his position as Foxnews's Hollywood insider as a soapbox to bash "The Passion" for months now. There's a link to e-mail Foxnews on the top. He could use a Freeping.

384 posted on 02/25/2004 11:42:16 PM PST by baseballfanjm
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To: carlo3b
My daughter and I went to see Passion last night, carlo.

I can't seem to find the words to explain the impact it had on me.

Never in my life have I seen a movie for the first time knowing the beginning, the middle and the ending..along with the dialogue and yet...it was as though I knew nothing at all.....as if it was all new....so hard to explain.

385 posted on 02/26/2004 2:43:18 AM PST by lysie
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To: carlo3b
This is where God comes in. He, (our creator, this is where faith comes in), saw that we were struggling, and were probably not going to get any better on our own. And since He is a merciful and loving God, He gave us a second chance. He sent his son, his only son, Jesus Christ, to show us "The Way".

I don't mean to offend, but God, according to the Bible, knew right from Day one and before, that Jesus would be nailed to the Cross for our sins.

I realize you meant that God reached down to us, but even your explanation showed me that you didn't explain it Biblically correct, and that does make part of my point. God did not give us a 'second chance because he saw us go bad when He thought we would go good'

Your saying that, "and were probably not going to get any better on our own." shows that either you typed too fast, or you yourself just don't understand just what sin is and how far we as humans are separated from God and condemned because of our sin.

That is what I didst see in the 2nd show. These people had no clue why Jesus had to die. They knew the story, but they had no idea of what sin is to God, how it is that which condemns us, and it is that very reason God knew that He would have to die for us in our place, to place the full punishment for MANKIND on Jesus Christ in the way He did.

And those people laughed, ate popcorn, not knowing any meaning behind what they saw in that theater. It was just a movie! It had no personal bearing on what they knew of life and living, and eternity and where they will go when they die and even that they themselves are CONDEMNED without Jesus Christ.

The sin of Adam condemned MANKIIND entirely! ALL OF US! We are all born SINNERS. It is not about a second chance, it is about proving His love to men and Angels because of Satan and his fellow demons who were sinners before the World began, and how fragile men, who are only in the flesh, and must trust God by faith! and never saw God face to face, that His mercy to us is why Jesus Christ had to DIE on th cross for us, to pay the penalty for sin.

I'm not telling you off. Really. It's just people dont know or explain in Biblical terms with Biblical accuracy the things that are Biblically true!

...(me too sometimes...) :)

386 posted on 02/26/2004 5:11:16 AM PST by RaceBannon (John Kerry is Vietnam's Benedict Arnold: Former War Hero turned Traitor)
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To: lysie
I think it's almost like we've somehow forgotten, and the movie reminds us, and in ways that we never understood before.

Prairie
387 posted on 02/26/2004 5:17:20 AM PST by prairiebreeze (Decide for yourself! See "Passion of The Christ.")
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To: carlo3b
I saw THE MOVIE yesterday. How gruesome. How realistic. The way this was put together was just awesome. I am going to see it again with wife and daughter (son is not old enough yet)

The girl I sat next to was probably 10-11 years old and she couldn't read, so the subtitles were worthless, and she said she had never heard the story of the Passion?!? I was trying to explain it to her as important things were happening. I was a little miffed at the guy in front of me that kept turning around, as if I'm interrupting his ability to hear the words (unless he was a scholar and knew both languages - or was just easily distracted and couldn't read the words with someone whispering behind him). I got over it. Out of 5 roses I give the Movie a 6.

388 posted on 02/26/2004 5:37:26 AM PST by Core_Conservative (ODC-GIRL - the love of my life! - supporting Homeland Defense!)
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To: carlo3b
The defeat of Hollywood! It couldn't happen to a worse bunchof lowlifes.. Now they are talking about blackballing Mel for making this movie..
389 posted on 02/26/2004 5:58:25 AM PST by .45MAN (Boycott Hollywood)
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To: .45MAN
The defeat of Hollywood! It couldn't happen to a worse bunchof lowlifes.. Now they are talking about blackballing Mel for making this movie..

The real crime will be the method in which they punish Mel and this wonderful film..They will ignore this film, except to slash everything about it.. Too Violent, Pointless, Inaccurate, Antisemitic, etc.. in 3 weeks you wouldn't know it ever existed, and Mel will be marginalize as a kook..

390 posted on 02/26/2004 6:09:57 AM PST by carlo3b (http://www.CookingWithCarlo.com)
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To: Core_Conservative
Out of 5 roses I give the Movie a 6.

Whatever we say.. Every biblical film from this date forward will be measured by the level of talent and emotional equity that Gibson invested in The Passion.

391 posted on 02/26/2004 6:13:40 AM PST by carlo3b (http://www.CookingWithCarlo.com)
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To: RaceBannon
I realize you meant that God reached down to us, but even your explanation showed me that you didn't explain it Biblically correct, and that does make part of my point. God did not give us a 'second chance because he saw us go bad when He thought we would go good'

Being factually correct is wonderful, and admirable, but not entirely necessary. I don't hold myself out as a student of the Bible, much less a teacher.. My faith is personal. I know Race, that you are correct, but this is how my faith works for me.. and as long as my internal behavioral compass holds my actions, and my interactions with others in check, and leads me to try to live within the conditions of a decent man, in accordance to the commandments.. the details really don't get in my way..

Now raising kids, and cooking great food takes meticulous accuracy, and that indeed is were I draw the line.. :)

392 posted on 02/26/2004 6:29:05 AM PST by carlo3b (http://www.CookingWithCarlo.com)
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To: carlo3b
They will try to do that certainly. They already are. But money talks, especially in Hollyweird. Hopefully the big bundle this movie makes will counteract some of their actions.

Prairie
393 posted on 02/26/2004 6:29:43 AM PST by prairiebreeze (Decide for yourself! See "Passion of The Christ.")
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To: prairiebreeze
Here may be a problem. My kids and I are really film fanatics. We not only view the cinematic effort we study them, and watch the best of them over and over to find the brilliant nuances.. Now, we saw the Passion twice, once at the last minute because it was a sneak preview, and again last evening.. I have to tell you, I/we really don't want to experience that trauma again any time soon, if ever.. how strange.. I know that I will buy the DVD, just so I can watch it..

But this is a new emotion that my kids and I can't remember ever happening before.. Once was truly enough.. it took that much out of me..

394 posted on 02/26/2004 6:41:06 AM PST by carlo3b (http://www.CookingWithCarlo.com)
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To: carlo3b
Well, I do wish I could eat as disciplined as you...
395 posted on 02/26/2004 6:42:42 AM PST by RaceBannon (John Kerry is Vietnam's Benedict Arnold: Former War Hero turned Traitor)
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To: carlo3b
Understandable. After a month, I'm ready to see it again and will next week accompanied by my spouse who hasn't seen it. Actually, "ready" isn't fully accurate. I simply want to see it again.

And I also anticipate that DVD sales will be large. People will want to have a copy of this.....for those times when they NEED to see it again. IMO.

Prairie
396 posted on 02/26/2004 6:52:56 AM PST by prairiebreeze (Decide for yourself! See "Passion of The Christ.")
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To: carlo3b
I agree with you. I don't think I could see it again except maybe on DVD where I can turn the sound down. I had a hard time with the sounds.

It is a very moving movie, but I would not recommend it for everyone. I just called my dad and told him that I didn't think my mom should see it. My brother (who is not a Christian) has terminal cancer. He is suffering. The Passion also focuses so much on Mary's suffering, that I think it will be too much for my mom.

I liked the depiction of Mary's suffering. It made Jesus more human to me. I liked the flashbacks with Jesus as a child and as a young man. I liked how they were entwined with His torture. It made it more real to me.

I will say that I read the Gospels account of Jesus' death last night. I was impressed with how accurate the movie was.

I did not care for the demons in the movie. I thought those were not Biblical and a little too Hollywood.
397 posted on 02/26/2004 12:56:58 PM PST by luckystarmom
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