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Who is the first Impeached President? Johnson or Clinton?
Whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/ ^

Posted on 03/08/2004 1:00:28 PM PST by AgThorn

reading a bit on the whitehouse.gov site concerning 'history' of past presidents. First I started reading what they had to say about Clinton. ...

William Jefferson Clinton

Interesting how 'cleaned up' it is, but I also noted that there were not a lot of accomplishments listed. What really caught my eye though was the statement that he was the 'second' president impeached by the house, and found not guilty by the senate.

Well, this ain't exactly how I remember it .. so I then tried to find the 'first' impeached president, according to this website. Checking Nixon, no, they correctly said he resigned first. So then on to Andrew Johnson:

Andrew Johnson

This one says that "the House voted eleven articles of impeachment against him. He was tried by the Senate in the spring of 1868 and acquitted by one vote." So, I guess according to the whitehouse.gov history, Andrew was the FIRST impeached President.

But I was under the impression that this is not so ... i.e. that the Congress actually DID impeach Clinton, and that HE was the first President really IMPEACHED by both houses. So, I guess I may be totally wrong on this or else the whitehouse.gov is, which is it ... (maybe the shortest thread on record! ;-)

Lastly, what is all this garbage about the "Radical Republicans" of the south leading to Andrew Johnson's downfall? When you read this history page, you get the impression that the Republicans wanted slavery. Sounds like some creative writing to me.


TOPICS: Government; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: andrewjohnson; clinton; impeachedx42; impeachment; whitehousegov
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Just curious
1 posted on 03/08/2004 1:00:30 PM PST by AgThorn
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To: AgThorn
Only the House can file Impeachment charges then the Senate must try the accused on them.

Andrew Johnson was impeached by the House and not convicted
by the senate just as happened with the Abomination.
2 posted on 03/08/2004 1:03:36 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: AgThorn
Clinton was the forst "elected" President to be impeached.

johnson succeeded Lincoln after his death.
3 posted on 03/08/2004 1:05:00 PM PST by Lunatic Fringe ("Fellow citizens, we cannot escape history." -Abraham Lincoln, 1862)
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To: AgThorn
clinton was the first Elected President to be impeached. Johnson became President upon the assassination of Lincoln.
4 posted on 03/08/2004 1:05:11 PM PST by The Chid
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To: Lunatic Fringe
Too Quick!
5 posted on 03/08/2004 1:05:40 PM PST by The Chid
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To: AgThorn
The report is correct as to Johnson's having been impeached.

"Impeachment" itself -- the passage of articles thereof -- is akin to an indictment: it begins, and describes (in the articles' text) the charges in, a trial.

The Senate either convicts or doesn't.

But one can be "impeached" without being convicted, of course, as has occurred both times.

Many people appear to believe "impeach" means "remove from office via conviction AFTER impeachment."
6 posted on 03/08/2004 1:06:27 PM PST by pogo101
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To: Lunatic Fringe; The Chid
Ah HA!!! That's it, the first ELECTED President to be impeached.

How about that history about 'radical republicans' for Andrew Johnson? Is that factual?
7 posted on 03/08/2004 1:06:34 PM PST by AgThorn (Go go Bush!! But don't turn your back on America with "immigrant amnesty")
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To: AgThorn
With Regard to the Radical Republicans...

Republicans were against slavery, but they were a bit zealous about punishing the South for the Civil War. Johnson was opposed to many of the Radical Republican proposals for readmittance into the United States, and as a result the Republicans looked for a way to throw Johnson out of office.
8 posted on 03/08/2004 1:06:58 PM PST by Lunatic Fringe ("Fellow citizens, we cannot escape history." -Abraham Lincoln, 1862)
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To: AgThorn
"Impeached" is like "indicted"

Both Johnson and Clinton were impeached (the House does the impeaching), neither was convicted.

The difference that many people cite is that Clinton is the first and only ELECTED president to have been impeached. Johnson suceeded Lincoln, and the articles of impeachment against Johnson were more politically based than the articles against Clinton. Clinton was impeached because he broke laws invovling fundamental principles of civil law (lie to a judge), Johnson was impeached over political activities.

9 posted on 03/08/2004 1:07:03 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: AgThorn
Johnson
10 posted on 03/08/2004 1:07:42 PM PST by The Wizard
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To: AgThorn
Clinton was the first elected president to be impeached. IIRC, Johnson was impeached after Lincoln's death. U.S. Grant became president in 1869, so Johnson was elected president by the people. (Unlike Ford, Johnson was at least elected VP.)
11 posted on 03/08/2004 1:08:17 PM PST by Tanniker Smith
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To: AgThorn
Clinton was the first ELECTED president impeached
12 posted on 03/08/2004 1:09:16 PM PST by The Wizard
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To: AgThorn
Impeachment = House = Indictment

Removal = Senate = Conviction

Impeached Presidents:
A. Johnson (Dem, TN) = #1
Clinton = #2

Removed Presidents:
0
13 posted on 03/08/2004 1:09:28 PM PST by BlueNgold (Feed the Tree .....)
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To: Cboldt
The difference that many people cite is that Clinton is the first and only ELECTED president to have been impeached.

Yup .... another tid-bit is that BOTH impeached presidents were Democrats! ;-)

14 posted on 03/08/2004 1:09:28 PM PST by AgThorn (Go go Bush!! But don't turn your back on America with "immigrant amnesty")
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To: AgThorn
Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton are the only two presidents who were impeached.

They were impeached by the House, but they were then not convicted by the Senate.

15 posted on 03/08/2004 1:09:44 PM PST by Charles Henrickson (Nixon was never impeached.)
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To: AgThorn
The standard, and true, line against Clinton was that he was the first elected president to be impeached, but that made him the second president to be impeached since Johnson (who took office after Lincoln's assassination) was indeed impeached as well.

One does not get 'impeached' by both houses of Congress. Replace the word 'impeached' with 'indicted' for a parallel to coventional courts. Then, the Senate tries the offenses for which the president has been impeached and either convicts him or does not. So the sequence - for removing a US President from office - is to be 'impeached' by the House, then 'convicted' by the Senate.
16 posted on 03/08/2004 1:10:00 PM PST by Gorjus
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To: AgThorn
Clinton was the first ELECTED president to be impeached

And they impeached Johnson because they didn't kill him the same night they killed Lincoln

17 posted on 03/08/2004 1:10:18 PM PST by The Wizard
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To: Tanniker Smith
...so Johnson was elected president by the people.

??

18 posted on 03/08/2004 1:11:06 PM PST by AgThorn (Go go Bush!! But don't turn your back on America with "immigrant amnesty")
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To: AgThorn
Apparently there's been some revision in the views of many historians regarding Johnson and the "Radical Republicans." According to this view (from what I remember), the Republicans strongly favored uprooting the entire racial structure that supported slavery, etc. and the Democrats, who eventually won the day, allowed the segregation to continue for almost another century. Something glossed over by leftists who compare Clinton's impeachment at the hands of "Radical Republicans" to Johnson's.

But Iraq and Viet Nam are divisive enough. Please let's not re-fight the Civil War!
19 posted on 03/08/2004 1:12:13 PM PST by cvq3842
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To: The Wizard
And they impeached Johnson because they didn't kill him the same night they killed Lincoln

??? Johnson was a Democrat, impeached alledgedly by the 'radical republicans' who wanted him to be harder on the south. Lincoln was a Republican, assasinated by a southerner for freeing the slaves.

Don't see your logic in making your statement.

20 posted on 03/08/2004 1:14:43 PM PST by AgThorn (Go go Bush!! But don't turn your back on America with "immigrant amnesty")
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To: AgThorn
"...BOTH impeached presidents were Democrats..."

I thought Johnson was a Republican since he became POTUS after Abe was killed (and Lincoln was a Republican). But, I also seem to recall that the VPOTUS used to be the person with the 2nd highest vote total in the election (not always from the same party as POTUS).
21 posted on 03/08/2004 1:16:47 PM PST by familyofman
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To: Charles Henrickson
"Presidential Historian" and KKKlinton apologist Doris Kerns Goodwin repeatedly stated that Andrew Jackson was the first impeached president, and that his face was still on the $20 bill. So much for experts.
22 posted on 03/08/2004 1:18:15 PM PST by BadAndy (It's the activists who change society. Conservatives must become activists.)
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: familyofman
I think the "second highest vote total" rule was changed after the 1800 election. Johnson was a Northern Democrat who stayed loyal to the North, so Lincoln put him on the ticket as a "unity" gesture. Johnson therefore probably started out without much loyalty from either Lincon's party or his own.

I read once that Lincoln's first Vice President was mad for being dumped, and got Johnson drunk before his inaugural as VP. Johnson supposedly made a fool of himself. sounds a bit like a contrived story, though, no?
24 posted on 03/08/2004 1:24:07 PM PST by cvq3842
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To: pogo101
"The Senate either convicts or doesn't...."

At the time I was very angry that the Senate did NOT convict and remove Klintoon.

In hindsight, had that happened, algore would most likely be Presidente still today because GW would not have unseated him due to the mass sympathy for his ascension to the throne.
25 posted on 03/08/2004 1:25:58 PM PST by TRY ONE (NUKE the unborn gay whales!)
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To: BadAndy
I think Andrew JACKSON (the one on the $20, which now looks like Monopoly money) was censured by the Senate once for something having to do with the national bank, but even my knowledge of american political trivia is maxed out at this point. Goodwin's comment is pretty stupid, though. I think her reputation is pretty well tarnished by the recent plagarism scandal anyway.
26 posted on 03/08/2004 1:27:13 PM PST by cvq3842
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To: AgThorn
The Radical Republicans did lead to Johnson's downfall. Johnson was a "unionist democrat." He was put on the ticket in order to attract other "unionist democrats." When he succeeded Lincoln as a result of the assasination, he objected to the policies concerning Reconstruction and what was required for readmission of the Southern States into the Union. He felt what was proposed by the "Radical Republican" and inevitably enacted by Congress to be too Draconian. It's argued that this was also the view held by Lincoln prior to his death.
27 posted on 03/08/2004 1:29:56 PM PST by Coeur de Lion
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To: AgThorn
You're wrong. Both Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton were impeached by the House (only the House can impeach .... the equivalent of indict) and acquitted by the Senate (the Senate conducts the trial).
28 posted on 03/08/2004 1:30:57 PM PST by DonQ
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To: Lunatic Fringe
a bit?

LOL
29 posted on 03/08/2004 1:32:37 PM PST by wardaddy (A man better believe in something or he'll fall for anything.)
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To: Cloud_Chaser
Mmmmm, the smell of ZOT is in the air ....
30 posted on 03/08/2004 1:33:03 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: TRY ONE
algore would most likely be Presidente still today

Absolutely correct. Democrats had a chance to clean house of Clinton and skip a close election in 2000. "Gore: Like Clinton, but without the lying!" He'd have beaten the untested Bush in 2000. Instead, Clinton's lying hung around Gore's neck like an albatross.

31 posted on 03/08/2004 1:33:27 PM PST by pogo101
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To: Cloud_Chaser
oh oh ... I sense a ZOT coming on ... Newbie with an attitude has entered.
32 posted on 03/08/2004 1:34:24 PM PST by AgThorn (Go go Bush!! But don't turn your back on America with "immigrant amnesty")
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To: AgThorn
Clinton was the first elected president to be impeached.
33 posted on 03/08/2004 1:34:42 PM PST by Junior (No animals were harmed in the making of this post)
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To: AgThorn
Actually, Impeachment articles are drawn by the Lower House of congress.
If the lower house(House of representatives) votes by simple majority to impeach, the trial portion of the impeachment process is moved to the Upper House (Senate) where a 2/3rds majority is needed to complete the process, otherwise the process ends in aquittal.
34 posted on 03/08/2004 1:37:02 PM PST by HEY4QDEMS (Always remember to consider the facetiously challenged and use your sarcasm tag.)
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To: Cloud_Chaser
"no amount of gyrations can make it so."

That's not what Monica said.
35 posted on 03/08/2004 1:41:13 PM PST by Monty22
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To: Cloud_Chaser
...but when his impeachment ended without a conviction, he was clean, baby. Impeachment is in an indictment but it is not a conviction and no amount of gyrations can make it so.

It things that can give comfort to a Democrat are endless.

Of course Clinton remained in office. Few website forums know that as well as this one.

But like the similar impeachment of the rampant corruption and criminality of Warren Hastings, the hard fought impeachment will forever stand as a warning and barrier for all of similar small character that follow him.

His legacy was set and the impeachment was vindicated by his conduct as he left office. Pardons were obviously sold and the Legacy was thereby set in concrete.

No, it isn't conservatives that can't let go of Clinton, it is the Democrats. They still long for him. They want that impervious television icon that they loved to see escape from his own conduct time after time.

When your whole political program is built on thievery, the Master of Thieves is a ideal that is always with you.

36 posted on 03/08/2004 1:42:03 PM PST by KC Burke (tedsayshewasnevertaughttosurfacedive)
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To: KC Burke; All
Or, a better question:

Why was the first pardoned felon (of a Federal crime) to be elected President of the United States of America?

Bonus Points:

Why executed said pardon?

37 posted on 03/08/2004 1:54:34 PM PST by jamaksin
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To: AgThorn
the Congress actually DID impeach Clinton

An impeachment is an indictment and the grand jury is the House of Representatives. The House decides if there is enough evidence to conduct a trial. They demonstrate this by voting for impeachment. The Senate is then expected to conduct a trial by reviewing the evidence and then voting whether to convict of impeachment or not.

Neither President was convicted of impeachment.

38 posted on 03/08/2004 2:05:47 PM PST by MosesKnows
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To: jamaksin
Like my failure to substitute "The" for "Its" in my post, it appears something is slipped in your sentence structure. Ask again, plainly.
39 posted on 03/08/2004 2:06:38 PM PST by KC Burke (tedsayshewasnevertaughttosurfacedive)
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To: AgThorn
Interesting how 'cleaned up' it is, but I also noted that there were not a lot of accomplishments listed.

They don't mention his support of pornography as a growth industry?

40 posted on 03/08/2004 2:08:14 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: jamaksin
Clinton was the first pardoned felon to become President. Carter pardoned him.

The Braden Files - President and ex-felon.

41 posted on 03/08/2004 2:14:16 PM PST by ThePythonicCow (Mooo !!!!)
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To: AgThorn
Johnson lived in Greene Co. TN. He was tried and missed conviction by one vote, that vote (IIRC) being casted by a man named Ross from Ohio(IIRC). Ross is a name common to Greene Co. and I have always wondered if there was a family connection...
42 posted on 03/08/2004 2:16:30 PM PST by CathyRyan
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To: ThePythonicCow
Though Carters pardon was not specific to Clinton. From The MacNeil/Lehrer Report -- January 21, 1977 CARTER'S PARDON:
43 posted on 03/08/2004 2:17:13 PM PST by ThePythonicCow (Mooo !!!!)
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To: cvq3842
Johnson was a Democrat but he was not from the North. He was born in North Carolina and moved to Tennessee.
44 posted on 03/08/2004 2:18:37 PM PST by MacArthur
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To: Cloud_Chaser
Sorry guys but Johnson was an elected Vice-President and when he succeeded to the Presidency upon Lincoln's death, his "elected" status stayed with him so you cannot call Clinton the only elected president to be impeached.

Simple correction .... Johnson was NOT elected President. So Clinton remains the only elected president to be impeached.

45 posted on 03/08/2004 2:38:29 PM PST by AgThorn (Go go Bush!! But don't turn your back on America with "immigrant amnesty")
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To: Cloud_Chaser
...his "elected" status stayed with him...

He was not running for President. He was ELECTED VICE-PRESIDENT. Not President.

Clinton still has the distinct priveledge of being the first ELECTED PRESIDENT to be impeached.

46 posted on 03/08/2004 2:44:25 PM PST by Only1choice____Freedom (The word system implies they have done something the same way at least twice)
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To: MacArthur
Lincoln's ticket in 1864 was actually a "Union Party" ticket, made up of Republicans and War Democrats. Johnson, a Democrat, had been the Military Governor of occupied Tennessee, and was rewarded with the Veepship. He was impeached because the Congress wanted to grab more and more power away from the president and had passed the Tenure in Office act; this act claimed that Congress had to approve of any firing that the president did of his appointed people. Johnson had been facing many laws that Congress had passed, and which he felt were unconstitutional.

When the Tenure in Office act was passed, he decided they had gone too far, and tested the act by firing Lincoln's old Sec of War, Edwin M. Stanton, for insubordination. THAT is the act that got him impeached. There is no question that the differing views between the Lincoln/Johnson approach to Reconstruction, which was much more lenient than the Radical Republicans (led by Thaddeus Stevens) and their Wade-Davis plan for Southern punishment. This dispute had a lot to do with the mutual enmity as well.

It was the unconstitutionality of the Tenure in Office act that led the barely sufficent minority to reject conviction of the impeachment. It was really kind of ridiculous since the trial was going on during the campaign of 1868, which ended in Grant's election. It was purely vindictive.

47 posted on 03/08/2004 3:04:48 PM PST by Keith (IT'S ABOUT THE JUDGES)
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To: MacArthur
Right. Thanks.
48 posted on 03/08/2004 5:42:13 PM PST by cvq3842
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To: KC Burke; All
"Who ..." sticky fingers ... Thank you.
49 posted on 03/09/2004 2:10:58 AM PST by jamaksin
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To: AgThorn
Sorry, left out the word "vice".
Anyway, he had been elected to that office, but not to the office of the presidency.

TS

50 posted on 03/09/2004 8:57:52 AM PST by Tanniker Smith
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