Zero-Tolerance Gone Too Far

Do you believe the gun-free schools act is a Second Amendment violation?

I still think he was done over primarily by his own stupidity. This wasn't a case of brave civil disobedience.

WTF???

Is my name Rumplestiltskin?

I coulda swore that when I went to sleep last night, this was the USA, not Shogun Japan living under the code of Bushido, or an Islamic Republic living under Sharia Law.

We don't execute people for spitting on the sidewalk -- EVEN IF THEY DID SO OUT OF STUPIDITY.

There's this thing called "proportionality". You may have heard of it as, "Let the punishment fit the crime."

On second thought, you may not have heard of it at all. According to your concept of "justice", any "infraction", no matter how small, and even in the absence of criminal intent, is sufficient to exact any punishment no matter how harsh.

After all, the law has been broken, so the price must be paid.

You'd fit in like a charm in Dickensian England. "Hang that pickpocket! The kid was stupid, and he broke the law!"

Now you are just being vicious.

Whoa!

You're prepared to hang this kid out to dry because of a "stupid mistake", but he's "being vicious" for apologizing to you for a misunderstanding?

What planet did you fall off? Tell me, so that I can start pricing how much it would cost to book return passage for you. I doubt I'll have too much trouble passing the hat.

And I recall taking a 12 Gauge shotgun, a 30-30 rifle, and a .45ACP pistol to a school -- to teach a hunter safety class in a public school classroom!

And this was maybe 15 years ago! Man, things have gone downhill fast.

You pay income taxes Joe ??????Do you think they are just ?????? what happened to your grandstanding there ? Oh i get it federal penn doesn't sound that nice does it.

Yeah, I pay income taxes. And you know what? A couple of times, I screwed up on the math. Not by much, just a few bucks. I think it was in my favor one time, and in their favor the other. But "technicaly" they were both "violations".

And you know what happened? They came and arrested me, took away all my guns, prosecuted me for a felony, and I can no longer own a gun, vote, or get employed at any decent job.

All because of a couple of innocent but stupid mistakes. I broke the law, so I pay the price, right?

Wrong.

I was BSing you. The only thing that happened to me was a computer-generated notice from the IRS with the math corrected.

Good thing the Cali-Sturmwaffen aren't running the IRS, sheesh!

And YOU have the balls to accuse ME of absolutism?

Good f'n grief, you are one prize piece of work, my friend.

I hope for your sake you never do anything stupid, like "overparking", or "forgetting to pay a parking ticket on time", or even "getting a parking ticket."

With your absolutist mentality, they could swing you from the nearest lamppost, and it would be OK with you, because you broke the law, so you have to pay the price -- regardless of how trivial the "violation", and how draconian the penalty.

Here's a riddle. What do you get when you cross the Code of Bushido with Sharia Law? You get some guy from California who's perfectly willing to destroy a kid's life for a "stupid mistake", with no malice on his part, that harmed no one at all -- simply because there was a "violation".

We're through the looking glass, folks.

Its based on the perception the greatest evil are guns not the people who might harm others.

Hey Joe in case you didn't know we try 18 year olds as adults here.. not as kids.

Oh, yeah? Well hey Cali (hey, are you that drug cartel I keep hearing about?), in case YOU didn't know it, an 18 year old kid is a KID.

I got more news for you. Out there, you have NO sense of proportion, NO concept of letting the punishment fit the crime, NO tolerance whatsoever for the Second Amendment, the First Amendment (for conservatives only), or the normal family.

Your pathologically driven state is in revolt against the rest of the country, churning out homosexual "marriages" like cockroaches at a hat dance, and refusing to do a damn thing to stop them. Government officials at every level of every branch, in blatant violation of the law....

...and no penalty whatsoever.

But let some poor kid -- an honor student with a history pure as the driven snow -- slip up ONCE -- because he forgot something (Oh, the horror, the horror! Don't YOU ever "forget" anything, you never know what they'll do to YOU either!) -- let that kid screw up ONCE, with NO harm, NO intent -- and you throw the book at him.

You won't even countenance the discretionary safeguard that's written into the stupid law!

They could have "handled this" by calling the damn truant officer!

But no, they had to call out the big guns and act like they had Billy the Kid cornered.

Pure theater on their part, so that they could make out like heroes as they demonize the Evil Gun Guy. And you swallow it hook line and sinker.

How's it feel to be wearing a sign on your back that says "I'll condemn my fellow man if you feed me agitprop"?

I hope you're proud of yourself, because frankly I suspect pretty much everyone else has a pretty hefty measure of contempt for your attitude.

I hope he isn't punished harshly for a slight indiscretion but I got 2 little words for you - Individual responsibility. Or let me guess he had an abused home and mommy didn't breastfeed him.

And what did I say about that attitude? There you go again. What a snotty thing to say.

Remember before when I said I hope YOU never make some minor mistake and get your life turned inside-out?

Well forget I said it.

But DO let me know if it does happen to you, because I'd really enjoy repeating your two favorite words right back atcha: "Individual responsibility."

The act itself seems a violation of the 2ND amendment yes...

So why the focus on the person whose RKBA is being violated? In post #8 you wrote:

The law sucks but since when is forgetfulness an excuse. This kid broke the law...thats just cold hard reality .

You were clearly placing responsibility on the person whose rights are being violated rather than an unconstitutional law by the Federal government.

Looks like it is zero-tolerance with regard to the criminal justice system. From the URL in the article--
Sec. 8922 Policy regarding criminal justice system referral
(a) In general

No funds shall be made available under this chapter to any local educational agency unless such agency has a policy requiring referral to the criminal justice or juvenile delinquency system of any student who brings a firearm or weapon to a school served by such agency."

Indeed, there is a zero-tolerance law involved. But not that one. The article did mention those armed police officers who responded to the school and arrested Adam Liston....

Title 18 United States Code; U.S. Criminal Code, Section 242; -
Deprivation of rights under color of law:

Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death

U.S. Constitution; Amendment II:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

United States Code, Title 10, Section 311.
- Militia: composition and classes:

(a)

The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

The high-schooler purchased a shotgun, legally, for his 18th birthday. Being an avid sportsman, he enjoyed shooting before and after school and during lunch breaks, off campus.

United States Code; U.S. Criminal Code, Section. 241.
- Conspiracy against rights

If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured - They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death

Good thing noone was actually harmed by the armed police or the school administrators when they conspired to deprive Adam Liston of his constitutional right and obligation as a member of the Militia of the United States under Federal law, or they could be facing the death penalty; and as charged felons, any citizen could use such force necessary to effect their arrest and take them into custody. Unfortunately for them, however, federal sentencing guidelines will require the maximum sentences should they be so convicted, since the police involved used weapons in the commission of that violation of Liston's civil rights. And there is no parole in the federal penal system... but at least they're not looking at a gurney and a needle. Yet.

They want zero tolerance? Okey-fine.

I detest the income tax but quietly pay it... its called being practical...but Joe you still didn't answer my question WHY DONT YOU TAKE A MORAL STAND AND REFUSE TO PAY TAXES. Pragmatism always trumps ideology in the end.

Next time READ before you shoot from the lip, OK?

Looks like you just made a "stupid mistake", oops.

I already told you, I made a "stupid mistake", and messed up on the math. I "didn't pay (all of) my taxes."

What happened to me? Did they come in with the bulldozers and knock my house down and then throw me in the hoosegow?

No. They sent me a corrected form.

BFD.

I never advocated the kid "breaking the law". I merely condemned what was done to him when he inadvertently "violated" it -- with NO criminal intent, and NO harm done, period.

How old are you?

I'm 54. So don't play that "you go first" game.

How old are you?

Don't bother talking to me again until you answer that question.

Boy, you're really screwing up, bigtime.

Looks like another "stupid mistake". I said "Don't bother talking to me again until you answer that question."

You ignored my directive, and attempted to engage me, walking right over my request.

A stupid mistake? Unintentional, perhaps?

Perhaps. But, "unintentional" doesn't matter according to YOUR code, so, you'll be held to the same standard you hold other to.

A violation. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

what does age have to do with it

I just wanted to get a feel for how far back the brainwashing set in in CaliEff.

he is not entirely blameless.

Not being "entirely blameless" is now acceptable parameters for draconian life-wrecking punishment for TRIVIAL "violations" that harm no one, and were "committed" inadvertently with NO criminal intent?

How would you feel if a cop pulled you over for an inadvertent "rolling stop violation", and took you away in irons, confiscated your car, drained your savings to pay the fines, and then branded you a felon for life?

It would be OK, right? I mean, you DID break the law, right? And I know,/I> that "rolling stops" do happen inadvertently. Last week I chided my wife for making a rolling stop, and suggested she be more careful -- to avoid a ticket -- and her response? She didn't believe me! She'd rolled right through the stop, and didn't believe that she didn't make a full stop!

So, I can fully accept that YOUR "rolling stop" could easily be completely due to, how did you put it? A "stupid mistake"? And, I can accept that no one was harmed.

But still, the law's the law, and you broke it. Tough break. Hopefully seeing YOUR life destroyed will be a lesson to others, so that we'll have fewer of these rolling stops in the future.