NH: Seized by the Manchester Police for Open Carry (vanity)

self | March 29, 2004 | Michael Pelletier

[Copernicus]

but CCW people must realize they have NO absolute rights to carry openly and offend non-gun-owners who are also voters. Occasionally I see new CCW folks carry openly and I tell them to "cover it" or put it in the car trunk.

Respectfully disagree. Many people in many states elect not to jump through Goobermint Ordered Flaming Hoops that are in themselves UnConstitutional by definition. They rely on "open carry" as the legal right of transport and self defense.

There is no standard by which simple carry is inherently offensive any more than there are prohibitions against any number of other behaviours which would offend some portion of the population.

At one time the only reasonable form of carry an honest citizen would expect to encounter would be open carry.

Concealed carry was the mark of dishonorable and untrustworthy people.

That Goobermint has managed to invert this concept is yet another blight and stain on this generation.

Best regards,

[W Clark]

Your a retired Federal Agent?, Is that supposed to strike fear in our hearts?, is that supposed to make you some kind of "expert" on CCW?, Open or Concealed?. I live in Utah. We open carry here. Why? because some of us WANT to and there is not a Damm thing you or the "voting"?? public has done about it. When it is 105 degrees out I am known to open carry everywhere. I have done so all over Utah since 1995. I have not ONCE offended someone to the point they called the Police on me. Talking about Absolute Rights, when did they pass a law against being Offended? EXPOSURE INCREASES TOLERANCE.
Yes, I conceal 99% of the time but not because I don't want to offend because it is tactically better. You sound as though if it offends we can't or shouldn't do it. I recall after 911 the Police cars started showing up with American Flag stickers on them. Someone complained and said they were offended and a captain of a SLPD division ordered them to be removed. So you agree with that? The day when we all are "not Surprised" when Police toss us for doing nothing wrong is the day Liberty breathes it last breath. When Justice is only for the Strong and the Connected. Tenx, by your opening statement, you are already there. Too Bad.

[Copernicus]

You are a retired Federal Agent?

I am sure we can take Tenex at his/her word since impersonation of a Law Enforcement officer is an investigatible felony and most knowledgeable retirees are careful to divorce their personal opinions from any official policy or representation of statute or regulation.

In addition,I doubt the Free Republic High Command would long tolerate impersonators posting on their website.

Best regards,

[metesky]

Probably some of the 75,000 Massachusetts transplants.

Why... why they're almost as bad as California transplants!
;O)

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

Just one question...Why is your sidearm opern-carried in the small of your back? I understand the practical implications of it when covered by either your shirt or coat(as mentioned), but unconcealed, doesn't it make a nice holster for anyone behind you? I really am trying to learn this stuff before getting and practicing with a sidearm, so I don't mean to be sound like a wise-a**.

I wouldn't ever carry my concealed pistol in the small of my back. When you get into the car it is very uncomfortable sitting against a gun. I wear loose shirts and carry a Glock 23 .40 S&W on my right side. It's out of the way and there if I ever need it.

I'm moving to Pennsylvania soon so my concealed carry days are about over. My wife's family lives in New York (where I will be spending a lot of time) and New York makes you register your handguns with them if you want a concealed weapon permit there. New York also doesn't honor any other states concealed weapon permit (New York gun haters). So I guess now am going to start carrying a knife (better than nothing).

[thompson]

Tenx said, "but CCW people must realize they have NO absolute rights to carry openly"

Huh? - Did you miss this part in your 'Federal Agent' training?
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are..." "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

Tenx also said,"Mike marked himself for being the first shot because he carried indiscreetly."

I'll give you that point, but then why do police officers open carry if it just makes them a target? Perhaps the knowledge that there are people carrying firearms to defend themselves (and others) is a visible deterrent to criminals?

[archy]

By the way, "small of the back" is the worst method for gun handling as well as your own physical safety, one slip and fall and you could very easily suffer serious spinal damage.

It is not the way to carry, also taking a few courses doesn't make you qualified for anything, the fact that your firearm was not concealed made you a first target in an armed robbery.

I'll be sure to pass your keen observation on to some of my pals, Marine intelligence officers and classified materials couriers who go armed with Beretta M9s or Colt Officer's Model .45s in the small of their backs daily, as well as a couple of similarly fitted-out CIA couriers and Brit 14th Intelligence Company personnel whose routine carry piece in that position during operations in Northern Ireland is the .380 L88A1 Walther PP.

It's not my preferred means or location for carry, concealed or otherwise, but then I don't wear a Marine dress uniform blouse or utilities or a pullover or Barbour raincoat most of the time, nor carry a 9mm Ingram M10 as my backup gun anymore either. Neither do I tell other people what means and method of carry will or won't work best for them, though I'll sometimes offer advice if requested.

Funny those Galco NSA middle-of-back holsters are so popular...I wonder who's been buying them on government purchase orders by the hundreds....

[Copernicus]

Any followup reports?

This inquiring mind would like to know.

Best regards,

[mvpel]

I have retained attorney Penny S. Dean, of Concord. She has assisted me with the request to retain the 911 call records, and doing some additional research.

The Manchester Police have called this an "internal investigation," one of the exemptions to the public records law in New Hampshire, and thus are refusing to discuss anything with us, including their interview with the store manager who was on duty that evening. He won't talk to us, only to the police.

My mom, an attorney in Michigan, is doing some legal research on the subject of Terry v. Ohio and qualified immunity.

The MPD has requested to interview me, we're not sure yet whether we'll take them up on the request or just let my letter of complaint stand as all I have to say on the matter.

We're planning on making an effort to locate any other witnesses to the incident aside from the 911 caller and the store manager.

I've been posting updates to TheHighRoad.org, since their system allows bookmarking of threads and some other features of their software that make it easier to keep track of:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74034

[Copernicus]

Many thanks.

I notice "The High Road" also has a High Etiquette Quotient.

I will spend more time and learn to use their system.

Best regards,

[TigersEye]

btrl

[Carb]

If you do not have the following info on NH License to Carry, please take it with my reguards.

I'm from Merrimack NH, have Concealed Carry Permit and pack all the time. This type of thing I've worried about and I've actually ran your type of senerio over in over in my head, what would I do in that case?

Oh, those police and detectives have just as much right to carry as we do. No different between police and us, except they cannot be everywhere. Otherwise, they have families, go out to eat and even go to the book store with their own concealed weapon and its a shame how they grilled you... their shame, they missed 'dozens of speeding tickets' (speeding inserted for humor) while wasting public time and tax dollars on a bogus call. Talk about a hole for terrorism... it should be a lecture for themselves on how they can be so easily diverted!

However here is some NH Statue information on License to Carry:

TITLE XII PUBLIC SAFETY AND WELFARE
CHAPTER 159
PISTOLS AND REVOLVERS
Section 159:6
159:6 License to Carry. –
I. The selectmen of a town or the mayor or chief of police of a city or some full-time police officer designated by them respectively, upon application of any resident of such town or city, or the director of state police, or some person designated by such director, upon application of a nonresident, shall issue a license to such applicant authorizing the applicant to carry a loaded pistol or revolver in this state for not less than 4 years from the date of issue, if it appears that the applicant has good reason to fear injury to the applicant's person or property or has any proper purpose, and that the applicant is a suitable person to be licensed. Hunting, target shooting, or self-defense shall be considered a proper purpose. The license shall be valid for all allowable purposes regardless of the purpose for which it was originally issued. The license shall be in duplicate and shall bear the name, address, description, and signature of the licensee. The original shall be delivered to the licensee and the duplicate shall be preserved by the people issuing the same for 4 years. When required, license renewal shall take place within the month of the fourth anniversary of the license holder's date of birth following the date of issuance. The license shall be issued within 14 days after application, and, if such application is denied, the reason for such denial shall be stated in writing, the original of which such writing shall be delivered to the applicant, and a copy kept in the office of the person to whom the application was made. The fee for licenses issued to residents of the state shall be $10, which fee shall be for the use of the law enforcement department of the town granting said licenses; the fee for licenses granted to out-of-state residents shall be $20, which fee shall be for the use of the state. The director of state police is hereby authorized and directed to prepare forms for the licenses required under this chapter and forms for the application for such licenses and to supply the same to officials of the cities and towns authorized to issue the licenses. No other forms shall be used by officials of cities and towns. The cost of the forms shall be paid out of the fees received from nonresident licenses.
II. No photograph or fingerprint shall be required or used as a basis to grant, deny, or renew a license to carry for a resident or nonresident, unless requested by the applicant.
Source. 1923, 118:6. PL 149:6. 1941, 172:1. RL 179:6. 1951, 151:3. RSA 159:6. 1959, 100:1. 1967, 220:4. 1977, 563:76. 1979, 355:1. 1993, 27:1; 203:1. 1994, 257:1; 257:2. 1996, 167:2, eff. Aug. 2, 1996. 2003, 90:1, eff. July 29, 2003.

From URL: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-6.htm

[mvpel]

I'm in Merrimack too - let's get together for dinner sometime! :-) FreepMail me...

[TigersEye]

Occasionally I see new CCW folks carry openly and I tell them to "cover it" or put it in the car trunk.

Don't ever approach me with that kind of bs. What I would tell you isn't fit to post on a public forum.

[Sir Gawain]

Sue them.

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

Isn't Vermont the 'Live Free or Die' state? Or used to be?

That would be New Hampshire. Vermont is the Green Mountain State. Massachusetts is the Gay State.

[TigersEye]

Tenx also said,"Mike marked himself for being the first shot because he carried indiscreetly."

I'll give you that point, ...

I wouldn't give him that point at all. The only place LEO's have been given permission to kill indiscriminately comes from their own pea sized JBT brains. I do not believe that all LEO's, local or Fed, are like this or are anything but hard working courageous public servants but it does seem to be a trend.

Police and Feds who think like Tenx and act on it are putting themselves near the top of the list when the lead starts to fly. Those kinds of attitudes increase our vulnerability to criminals and terrorists and create rancor and division between citizenry and government. If he isn't lying then I'm glad he's retired. The less of his kind the better.

[mvpel]

In some states, such as Texas, open carry is illegal, and a CCW holder can be charged with a misdemeanor for failing to conceal his or her firearm. That's not the case in New Hampshire.

[TigersEye]

I understand that and I wish you well if you choose to pursue a case against them. You will have done those officers a favor even if they are fired. What they did was reckless and dangerous to themselves as well as others.

If Tenx isn't just lying through his teeth he had better keep his do-gooder approach in a state where the law backs up his piety. It won't go over well in other western states that I am familiar with like CO, NM, WY, UT, MT, ID and others. What he would get from me is an ear full. What he might get from some of the characters I've known is an unscheduled tour of an abandoned mine shaft.

[kbl]

Hey all of you, seems the idea of a 'diversonary tactic' shown by MPD feeble attempt to subdue a honorable citizen, was noticed by the criminal elements at large:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4825845/

Hey you Anti-Gun holier than thou idiots, seems your actions are meaningless and hollow. Why don't you take the next flight over to Turkey and live in the Compound in downtown Incirlik, be those 90 year old mommas can teach your dumb buns a lesson, about how loose lips sink ships! ;-)