GI Killed As Troops Deploy Outside Najaf

AP ^ | Tue, Apr 13, 2004 | DENIS D. GRAY

[nmh]

I am sorry to hear that ANY soldiers or American civilians are killed ... however is the media aware of MORE people are killed on a daily basis than this? I believe the media is doing its best to highlight this and exaggerate that troops are demoralized to dethrone Bush. Bush has made it clear that he wants these people defeated and the media is trying its best to make Bush look unsuccessful at this. I believe it is because Bush is being successful that we have these people lashing out so violently. They are so desperate that they are kidnapping Americans and others to make them stop fighting.

[Redleg Duke]

It sounds to me like we have them on the ropes right now. It is a target-rich environment. They chose to change tactics, to stand and fight...always a mistake when you are facing an overwhelming foe.

Someone must have told them that Clinton was back in office.

[jimbo123]

AP correspondents Abdul Hussein Yousef in Najaf and Abdul-Qader Saadi in Fallujah contributed to this report.

[Gefreiter]

Recall that AP was first on the scene to televise the Blackwater Massacre in Fallujah a couple weeks ago.

Surprised?

[Atlantic Friend]

In fact, the AP crew was second. The first were, as it seems, AFP reporters. THe AP van arrived immediately after the explosion.

[BrooklynGOP]

"It's ... very clear that we've got to get more senior Iraqis involved — former military types involved in the security forces," he said.

Shiites make up the majority, and it would've been in their favor to support our effort for the iraqi democracy. But now we are going to hire ex baathists (Sunnis) to operate the Iraqi military. That should put some pressure on the Shiites...

[astounded]

"The Marines confirmed a Sikorsky H-53 helicopter was down, although there was no immediate word on casualties"

How did a RPG bring down an H53? That doesn't seem right. Maybe it was a Cobra or UH1, but not a Sea Stallion or Pave Low???

[konijn]

If a RPG can take out a tank, why wouldnt the same happen with a helicopter?

[astounded]

It's a big, big helicopter. Plus, I don't know that an RPG can take out an Abrams tank - damage it, yes. Destroy it? I don't think so, but could be wrong.

[Archangelsk]

An RPG can cause a mobility kill, but not kill the crew. Cannoneer, could you please elaborate?

[Mikey]

"They chose to change tactics, to stand and fight...always a mistake when you are facing an overwhelming foe."

Sounds like the same statements made during Viet Nam. Underestimating an enemy is very dangerous

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Hence the saying: One may KNOW how to conquer without being able to DO it."

"There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare."

"Poverty of the State exchequer causes an army to be maintained by contributions from a distance. Contributing to maintain an army at a distance causes the people to be impoverished."

"In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."

"All warfare is based on deception."

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat."

"When the enemy is close at hand and remains quiet, he is relying on the natural strength of his position."

"When in difficult country, do not encamp. In country where high roads intersect, join hands with your allies. Do not linger in dangerously isolated positions."

Sun Tzu, the art of war.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

These quotes are over 2,400 years old, haven't we learned anything yet?

[Cannoneer No. 4]

An RPG could kill an Abrams crewman. Might even brew up the inside of the turret.

An RPG could knock down a CH-53. Both would be lucky shots.

Search keyword armor. There have been several discussions of mysterious holes appearing in our tanks.

[ZULU]

Sun Tzu sounds like quite a guy. More of our leaders should read him.

[Archangelsk]

I don't know. I think the Chobom armor of the Abrams deflects the HE plasma jet of an RPG and the armor's geometry prevents the warhead from striking directly on any turret, hull or side skirting surface. On the other hand, a strike on an end connector or a center guide will definitely cause the tread to have a bad day.

Your thoughts?

[AntiGuv]

[Archangelsk]

Here's Global Securities ppt on the subject.

[Archangelsk]

It's required reading by every officer in the Army, and you will be asked for a report for it El-Tee at the next OPD session. :-)

The other two tomes for the wise armor officer are Clausewitz and Guderian (although for the life of me I can't understand why these two REMFs from defeated armies are held in such reverence).

[Cannoneer No. 4]

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[Cannoneer No. 4]

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