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Defend America Photo Essay ~ Fallujah
Defend America ^ | April 16, 2004

Posted on 04/17/2004 7:38:35 AM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl

Photo Essays Fallujah Ambush  
Photo, caption below.
Lance Cpl. Richard A. Maria, a truck driver with Combat Service Support Company 113, guards his cargo - ammunition being rushed to support Operation Vigilant Resolve in Fallujah, Iraq - while his supply convoy halts momentarily April 6, 2004. Later that night, the convoy was ambushed by insurgents. Eight service members were wounded and several vehicles crippled, stopping the convoy for more than 12 hours before it could continue on to the Marine base of Camp Fallujah. The ammunition survived the attack. Maria is a 21-year-old native of Linden, Calif. U.S. Marine Corps photo by Staff Sgt. Bill Lisbon
Photo, caption below.
Marines and soldiers begin to load a crippled truck April 7, 2004. The vehicle was damaged the night before when a convoy carrying supplies to Marines in Fallujah, Iraq, was ambushed by insurgents. Eight service members were wounded and several vehicles severely damaged. Nearby a metal container of mail burns after being hit with a rocket-propelled grenade. U.S. Marine Corps photo by Staff Sgt. Bill Lisbon
Photo, caption below.
A Marine patrols a berm April 6, 2004, that overlooks the stretch of road where a supply convoy was forced to halt for more than 12 hours after being ambushed by insurgents the night before, in Iraq. The convoy, loaded with critical supplies for Operation Vigilant Resolve, was attacked with roadside bombs, rocket-propelled grenades and machine gun fire. Eventually, the troops and their vehicles got back on the road and reached their final destination, the Marine base of Camp Fallujah. U.S. Marine Corps photo by Staff Sgt. Bill Lisbon
Photo, caption below.
Lance Cpl. Nicholas R. Bruce, a landing support specialist with Brigade Service Support Group 7, stands watch over a convoy delivering critical supplies to Fallujah, Iraq, in support of Operation Vigilant Resolve April 6, 2004. Later that night, the convoy was ambushed by insurgents. Bruce is a 20-year-old native of Blythewood, S.C. U.S. Marine Corps photo by Staff Sgt. Bill Lisbon
Photo Essays Fallujah Duty 
Photo, caption below.
Infantrymen from 1st Platoon, Company E, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, look on from a rooftop as M-1A1 tanks from 1st Tank Battalion fire on buildings where enemy snipers took positions. The company entered Fallujah, Iraq, April 6, 2004, to combat enemy fighters who were attacking Coalition Forces from the city. U.S. Marine Corps photo by Sgt. Jose E. Guillen
Photo, caption below.
A Marine with 1st Platoon, Company E, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, watches over a terrorist captured with tools used to make improvised explosive devices April 6, 2004, in Fallujah, Iraq. U.S. Marine Corps photo by Sgt. Jose E. Guillen
Photo, caption below.
Machine gunners with Company E, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, return fire at insurgents firing from a mosque in Fallujah, Iraq, April 6, 2004. U.S. Marine Corps photo by Sgt. Jose E. Guillen
Photo, caption below.
Machine gunners with Company E, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, fall back for repositioning after a brief firefight with insurgents inside Fallujah, Iraq, Apr. 6, 2004. U.S. Marine Corps photo by Sgt. Jose E. Guillen
Photo, caption below.
An infantryman with 1st Platoon, Company E, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, aims into the city as the company takes heavy small-arms fire from the enemy in Fallujah, Iraq April 6, 2004. U.S. Marine Corps photo by Sgt. Jose E. Guillen
Photo, caption below.
Marines with Company E, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, patrol into Fallujah, Iraq April 7, 2004. U.S. Marine Corps photo by Sgt. Jose E. Guillen
Photo, caption below.
Marines with Company E, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, patrol into Fallujah, Iraq April 7, 2004. U.S. Marine Corps photo by Sgt. Jose E. Guillen
Photo, caption below.
A Marine with 1st Platoon, Company E, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, acts as a "Guardian Angel" in Fallujah, Iraq Apr. 8, 2004, keeping watch over fellow Marines on a patrol. U.S. Marine Corps photo by Sgt. Jose E. Guillen
Photo, caption below.
Sgt Jeremy Miller, a squad leader with 1st Platoon, Company E, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, draws a floor plan of a building the platoon seized Apr. 7, 2004, in Fallujah, Iraq. U.S. Marine Corps photo by Sgt. Jose E. Guillen
Photo, caption below.
Capt. Doug Zembiec, commanding officer of Company E, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, gives orders to his men over a radio prior to leaving their secured compound for a short patrol in Fallujah, Iraq, April 8, 2004. U.S. Marine Corps photo by Sgt. Jose E. Guillen
 
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TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: fallujah; freedom; gnfi; goodguys; iraq; marines; pictures; supportourtroops
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 04/17/2004 7:38:36 AM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
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To: MJY1288; xzins; Calpernia; TEXOKIE; Alamo-Girl; windchime; Grampa Dave; anniegetyourgun; ...
Photo, caption below.
Lance Cpl. Richard A. Maria, a truck driver with Combat Service Support Company 
113,  guards his cargo - ammunition being rushed to support Operation Vigilant Resolve
in Fallujah, Iraq - while his supply convoy halts momentarily April 6, 2004.
 
Later that night, the convoy was ambushed by insurgents.
 
 
Warriors at work.
        ~  ~

2 posted on 04/17/2004 7:46:17 AM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl ("He spares nothing to get to his Marines..They love him." re the command Chaplain in Fallujah,Ramadi)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Great pix ~ Bump!

We are winning ~ the bad guys are losing ~ trolls, terrorists, democrats and the mainstream media are sad ~ very sad!

~~ Bush/Cheney 2004 ~~

3 posted on 04/17/2004 7:48:49 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: nuconvert
PING!
4 posted on 04/17/2004 7:50:04 AM PDT by F14 Pilot (John ''Fedayeen" Kerry - the Mullahs' regime candidate)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
God bless them.
5 posted on 04/17/2004 7:50:48 AM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry's been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security!)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl; <1/1,000,000th%; 11B3; 2111USMC; 2Jedismom; 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; ...

TWO IMPORTANT BUMPS THIS AM

1. Ragtime Cowgirl has a great Iraq War photoessay. You Gotta See IT.

also
2. Ripley, take a seat in back, with "Destruction of Evidence" by .. Jamie Gorelick.

"Destruction of Evidence" , 2002 by Jamie Gorelick, Stephen Marzen, Lawrence Solum, Aspen Publishers
Amazon.com's Price: $170.00 --- FR thread here

6 posted on 04/17/2004 7:51:24 AM PDT by Diogenesis (If you mess with one of us, you mess with all of us)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
If I were that Marine walking along the top of the berm, I think I'd look at this picture and decide never to do it again. He makes a perfect target silhouetted against the sky.
7 posted on 04/17/2004 7:52:36 AM PDT by Clara Lou
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To: Clara Lou
You want him to low crawl back and forth along the top of that berm? You don't know much about SMEAC, tactics or following orders.
8 posted on 04/17/2004 7:56:02 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Clara Lou
I thought the same thing when I saw that picture. If it were me, I'd try to find a way to get off that crest.
9 posted on 04/17/2004 7:59:01 AM PDT by 68skylark (.)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Really good pictures -- we can always count on great posts from you.
10 posted on 04/17/2004 8:00:01 AM PDT by 68skylark (.)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
OH NO, their mail truck burned?
11 posted on 04/17/2004 8:03:44 AM PDT by McGavin999 (Evil thrives when good men do nothing.)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
You want him to low crawl back and forth along the top of that berm? You don't know much about SMEAC, tactics or following orders.
I'm not there, and I'm not in the military doing his job. I just know that I wouldn't be walking along the top of that berm if there were any other way I could do the job. Would a C. O. actually order a man/woamn to expose himself like that?
12 posted on 04/17/2004 8:04:47 AM PDT by Clara Lou
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Thanks for the essay, RC. Nice to see Our troops in action.
13 posted on 04/17/2004 8:08:57 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Puns are bad, but poetry is verse.)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Go guys! My thoughts are with you.
14 posted on 04/17/2004 8:09:48 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: Ragtime Cowgirl
I really want to tell our guys to keep their heads down. I just cringe when I see a soldier or Marine sticking his body up so far.

I don't want to be an Armchair Ranger but what happened to air support with each convoy?
16 posted on 04/17/2004 8:43:21 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems.)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
> > Warriors at work . .

And YOU are one of them - keep up the grat work - promotion is coming.

:~)

17 posted on 04/17/2004 8:49:01 AM PDT by Happy2BMe (U.S.A. - - United We Stand - - Divided We Fall - - Support Our Troops - - Vote BUSH)
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To: Diogenesis
Come look - ping.
18 posted on 04/17/2004 8:49:37 AM PDT by Happy2BMe (U.S.A. - - United We Stand - - Divided We Fall - - Support Our Troops - - Vote BUSH)
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To: Clara Lou
Would a C. O. actually order a man/woamn to expose himself like that?

Depending on the surrounding terrain and the tactical situation, yes.

19 posted on 04/17/2004 8:55:31 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: starboardlist
I learned day 1 during my training with the Marines that you never stand atop a ridge.

Unless you were billeted with 4th Battalion on Parris Island, I don't believe you.

20 posted on 04/17/2004 8:58:26 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Add more foliage and you have Vietnam all over again. 8 Marine casualties, trucks burning, trying to supply Marines that are prevented from taking their objective by PC powers that be.

Will we ever learn?
21 posted on 04/17/2004 9:03:33 AM PDT by TomasUSMC
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Bump!
22 posted on 04/17/2004 9:18:22 AM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity (Bad spellers of the world untie!!)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Bump!
23 posted on 04/17/2004 9:23:08 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: TomasUSMC
Roger that!

I guess I'm too damned old to understand the "strategy"
I'm beginning to get more than a little puzzled..
I'm wondering what the reason could be, to justify the delay in launching the air and ground assault on Fallujah and destroying the bastards that resist...

The longer the enemy is unmolested, the more defenses and booby traps they put in place...

After all this time --- I pray there is a heavy air bombardment before the grunts are asked to move forward..

Semper Fi
24 posted on 04/17/2004 9:32:29 AM PDT by river rat (You may turn the other cheek...But I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl

25 posted on 04/17/2004 9:37:18 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: TomasUSMC
I do believe that everywhere the Marines have engaged the enemy, they have won...and are advancing, not retreating, nor are they hiding in caves, spider holes, or tunnels while their hunters move freely about, with plenty of help - from the enemies' own neighbors who are tired of being held hostage by thugs.

The biggest similarity between Vietnam and today, imho, - the usual suspect leftist press-DNC-EU-UN accusers aiding the enemy, undermining morale and endangering our troops, by misreporting and misrepresenting our honorable military - the liberators of the oppressed and defenders of freedom* - as 'babykillers' or 'useful idiots' (labels which, ironically, DO fit the accusers) .

(* who are in the process of successfully accomplishing yet another mission, cleaning up Fallujah).

<*/rant*>

26 posted on 04/17/2004 9:40:54 AM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl ("He spares nothing to get to his Marines..They love him." re the command Chaplain in Fallujah,Ramadi)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Great effort......

Thanks
27 posted on 04/17/2004 9:46:31 AM PDT by bert (Save People.... Kill Terrorists)
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To: Diogenesis
Thank you for the ping! :D Loving these picture posts!!
28 posted on 04/17/2004 10:15:46 AM PDT by Flipyaforreal (Non sembra mai arduo cio che si fa volontariamente.)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl; Happy2BMe
RC, great post (as always). Time to tell you (AGAIN) what great work you do and how much you're appreciated. Please be "assured" that we never take you for granted. God Bless you always.

VH&W

29 posted on 04/17/2004 11:16:41 AM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife (UNITED we STAND,... DIVIDED we FALL. May God Bless & Protect our troops!)
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To: bert; Diogenesis; Happy2BMe
Thank you for the kind words, but the DoD photo essays require little effort on my part - 'cept when Outlook Express inexplicably changes the spacing somewhere between copy and paste - a lesson in patience I need, lol.

Writing uplifting captions - that takes skill.

Now, recapping briefings - that's effort.

Convicted, Happy, all glory goes to God. (with gratitude to His Saints)*g*

30 posted on 04/17/2004 11:18:39 AM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl ("He spares nothing to get to his Marines..They love him." re the command Chaplain in Fallujah,Ramadi)
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To: TomasUSMC; river rat
I mean no disrespect, but you don't know what you're talking about.

There is almost NO similarity between Iraq and VietNam, other than the fact that brave American soldiers are fighting against a very bad enemy.

To continue to say that the two are the same is to say we are doomed to defeat, and our soldiers' sacrifices are for naught.

And I, as the mother of a brave young soldier who just returned from Iraq resent that.......a LOT.

31 posted on 04/17/2004 11:32:03 AM PDT by ohioWfan (BUSH 2004 - Leadership, Integrity, Morality)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl; TomasUSMC
Exactly, Ragtime. Excellent rant, and well deserved.

And those here on FR who continue to regurgitate the leftist comparison to VietNam are undermining the morale of our courageous troops, and should be ASHAMED of themselves.

32 posted on 04/17/2004 11:35:20 AM PDT by ohioWfan (BUSH 2004 - Leadership, Integrity, Morality)
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To: McGavin999
OH NO, their mail truck burned?

One of the convoys that was ambushed was carrying mail to the troops. We did find out that this mail that would of been mailed from the states approx. March 26-28. If you mailed something in that timeframe you might want to do some follow up if it was of any value.
33 posted on 04/17/2004 11:39:57 AM PDT by boxerblues
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To: ohioWfan
Is your son home yet? Sure hope so! God Bless all our troops, and btw, we agree with you, this isn't Vietnam! To compare it with Vietnam is wrong, it isn't! To keep saying it is will only demoralize the troops and embolden our enemies.
34 posted on 04/17/2004 11:42:03 AM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife (UNITED we STAND,... DIVIDED we FALL. May God Bless & Protect our troops!)
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To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
Eric..........is HOME!!!!

THANK you, LORD! He is doing unbelieveably well!


35 posted on 04/17/2004 11:46:32 AM PDT by ohioWfan (BUSH 2004 - Leadership, Integrity, Morality)
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To: ohioWfan
Ok.. that made me cry!

Just brought Art in to look at our young hero!We are both so happy and so darn PROUD! We love to see pictures of our troops home safe. (The media doesn't show this enough).

When we got home from Church on Easter, we had a call on our answering machine from one of our Pilot buddies who had JUST got home! (He surprized his wife by having his son pick him up early. He didn't wait the extra days so she could meet him in Oklahoma.) He had been flying into the Baghdad airport almost daily for the past year. We still have one buddy there doing the same thing. Prayers for "JD" please.

We can't tell you how happy those pictures just made us. You tell Eric his fellow Americans are "darn" proud of his service( and "fellow" Vets one day).

We sent prayers for his safe return, and now we GIVE THANKS that our prayers were answered. :o)

We're so happy for all of you!

God Bless, VH&W

36 posted on 04/17/2004 12:10:34 PM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife (UNITED we STAND,... DIVIDED we FALL. May God Bless & Protect our troops!)
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To: starboardlist
You want him to low crawl back and forth along the top of that berm? You don't know much about SMEAC, tactics or following orders.

I learned day 1 during my training with the Marines that you never stand atop a ridge. Walk a few feet below where you can see over it, but don't make such a wonderful target.

If you want to catch the smart old lions and tigers, you've got to stake out some goats for bait.

Saturday, April 17, 2004

'It's a sniper's dream'

A US sniper from the First Battalion Fifth Marines scans the rooftops of southeastern Fallujah.

(AFP/Cris Bouroncle) AFP - Apr 10 12:41 PM

Tony Perry - Los Angeles Times

FALLUJAH, Iraq -- Taking a short breather Friday, the 21-year-old Marine corporal explained what it is like to practice his lethal skill in the battle for this city.

"It's a sniper's dream," he said in polite, matter-of-fact tones. "You can go anywhere and there are so many ways to fire at the enemy without him knowing where you are."

Sniping -- killing an enemy from long distance with a single shot -- has become a significant tactic for Marines in this "Sunni Triangle" city as three battalions skirmish daily with armed insurgents who can find cover among the buildings, walls and trees.

Marine sniper teams are spread in and around the city, working night and day, using powerful scopes, thermal imaging equipment and specially modified bolt-action rifles that allow them to identify and target armed insurgents from 800 yards or more.

Sniping experts -- there are several here with the Marines -- say there might not have been such a "target-rich" battlefield for such shooters since the World War II battle for Stalingrad, during which German and Russian snipers dueled for months.

As a military tactic, sniping is centuries old; the first snipers used bows and arrows. Leonardo da Vinci is said to have been a sniper against the Holy Roman Empire.

Weapons change, but the goal of the sniper remains the same: harass and intimidate the enemy, make him afraid to venture into the open, deny him the chance to rest and regroup.

The Marines believe their snipers have killed hundreds of insurgents, although that figure alone does not accurately portray the significance of sniping. A sign on the wall of sniper school at Camp Pendleton, Calif., displays a Chinese proverb: "Kill One Man, Terrorize a Thousand." "Sometimes a guy will go down, and I'll let him scream a bit to destroy the morale of his buddies," said the Marine corporal. "Then I'll use a second shot."

In negotiations aimed at ending the standoff in the city, the insurgents have demanded that the Marines pull back their snipers.

A shaky truce exists between the Marines who surround the city and the fighters within the circle. But the cease-fire allows the Marines to carry out defensive operations within the city, which among other things they define as allowing fire on insurgents who display weapons, break the curfew or move their forces toward U.S. troops.

While official policy discourages Marines from keeping a personal count of people they have killed, the custom continues. In nearly two weeks of conflict here, the corporal from a Midwestern city has emerged as the top sniper, with 24 confirmed kills. By comparison, the top Marine Corps sniper in Vietnam killed 103 people in 16 months.

"As a sniper your goal is to completely demoralize the enemy," said the corporal, who played football and ran track in high school and dreams of becoming a high school coach. "I couldn't have asked to be in a better place. I just got lucky: to be here at the right time and with the right training."

The military has asked that sniper names not be published. Insurgents were said to have placed a bounty for the killing of any Marine sniper. A Web site, linked to the insurgents, attempts to provide information on snipers and their family members. During Vietnam, the Viet Cong also put a bounty on snipers.

Marine snipers, whose motto is "one shot, one kill," fire from rooftops in crowded urban areas of Fallujah, as well as exploring the city by foot. It sometimes takes hours to set up a shot, as the sniper hides in the distance, waiting for the opportune moment.

Marine officers credit the snipers, all of whom are enlisted men, with saving Marine lives by suppressing enemy fire and allowing their comrades greater freedom of movement.

"The snipers clear the streets for us," said Capt. Douglas Zembiec. "The snipers are true heroes."

Sniper teams have come under fire and suffered casualties. Marine intelligence suggests that the insurgents -- using Russian- and Chinese-made rifles and optics -- have their own sniper teams, but there have been no reports of Marines killed by sniper fire.

Unlike other infantry troops, the sniper has a greater confidence that his shot is not as likely to hit a civilian or a "friendly."

The corporal hopes to get back home by late fall in time to take his girlfriend to a college football game and go deer hunting with his father.

"When I go hunting for whitetail, it's for food and sport," he said. "Here, when I go hunting, it's personal, very personal."

37 posted on 04/17/2004 12:33:53 PM PDT by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: ohioWfan
I understand that we don't want another Vietnam.
I am also very proud of the Marines and Soldiers.
But I would be ashamed of myself if knowing what I know, I did not do my best to shout from the rooftops that this is
VERY MUCH LIKE THE FAILED STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF VIETNAM.

We allow the enemy sanctuary in Nam, we allow it in Iraq -
Syria-Cambodia, Iran-Laos Jordan,Saudi,and the rest of the middle east are also supplying recruits and arms and morale support.

We allow the enemy to hide in cities and towns were we are not allowed to kill them - Fallujah, Najaf, today, and a thousand places in South Vietnam, especially the city of Hue.

Instead of mobilizing the country and declaring war, and using massive overwhelming firepower we are playing the conventional warfare game that the enemy wants us to play.
All the while, the enemy is rearming with better armament, better tactics, gathering better intelligence - Just Like Nam.

The clock is ticking and the clock favors the enemy. Right this minute they are calculating how to employ WMDs against our beloved heroes in Iraq. And what is our response?

We let them do it. We are trading one dead Marine or Soldier for maybe 50 of the enemy. That is not a win. That is exactly what we did in Nam and we lost. Why?

Because ours are worth 1000 of theirs. Their soldier is some drugged teenager with an automatic weapon, he receives 2 hours of training and is sent to shoot and scoot. Our men and women take months of training. They replace their dead in 5 minutes, ours in 5 months. - Just like Nam.

We refrain from using our Air Power in overwhelming force because we are scared of emboldening the enemy and its allies on the "Arab Street" - Just like Nam.

We have rules of engagement designed by those who are not on the front lines, and we have truces called by those who are not even Americans like the Governing Council - Nam revisited.

We are afraid of the media, of public opinion - domestic and foreign. We refuse to finish a fight today hoping for a settlement that will only embolden the enemy and make it a much more bloody affair later - exactly like Nam.

We could have taken Najafa and that lunney Cleric AND Fallujah by now and the World would have seen that we meant business, but instead we fear the world opinion instead of the world fearing our opinion - again Vietnam to a tee.

The terrorist are loving this slow dance we replay. Everyday they come closer to achieving their goal -

Another Vietnam for America.

Let me say that I want our troops to win and for as many as possible to come home safe.
For the mothers or our heroic men and women in uniform out there, I hope you will not see my comments as anything but

-comments dedicated to the utter destruction and total
annihilation of the enemy as soon as possible; something never sought after in Vietnam.
38 posted on 04/17/2004 1:10:54 PM PDT by TomasUSMC
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To: ohioWfan; TomasUSMC
".....but you don't know what you're talking about."<

Madam - you misinterprete the point we attempted to make..

Due to the CORRECT withholding of information about the REAL stategy of Marine Commanders in Fallujah -- those of us with UGLY recollection of uncompehendable "stategy" in Vietnam, worry more than most that our Marines are being unduely "exposed"...

The "similarity" that was referred to - was the "vision" of vehicles burning, enemy within easy reach to destroy - and not yet unleashing the overwhelming destruction within our means to do so... Obviously, most of us have already seen far more willingness of our politicians and military commanders to FIGHT this war -- than the one we were sent to fight.

I don't know who's post you were reading when you accused me of saying anything related to "doomed to defeat" or "soldier's sacrifices are for naught" -- it was NOT ME and NOT my position at all.

To accuse me of such --- "YOU don't know what you're talking about"....

I'm glad your son returned safely....
I pray every mother's son returns safely...
I wish all of my friends had returned safely...they didn't.

Semper Fi

39 posted on 04/17/2004 1:26:04 PM PDT by river rat (You may turn the other cheek...But I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: TomasUSMC; ohioWfan
We did NOT lose militarily in Viet Nam. Our soldiers won the war. We lost because we allowed the Leftists and Peaceniks in this country to convince Congress that we had to surrender.

This is NOT another Viet Nam because there are too many of us who will not allow our gov't to surrender again.

Our military will win, and President Bush and his team will stand behind them. The majority of the country will stand behind the President.

40 posted on 04/17/2004 2:22:18 PM PDT by speekinout
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To: speekinout
Some folks say: We did NOT lose militarily in Viet Nam. Our soldiers won the war.

We killed more of the enemy, won more of the battles but we lost that war. 50,000 dead for what?

We should have just leveled Hanoi and Haiphong and on down the line until there weren't any more North Vietnamese left to pick up a rifle. Instead we got involved in a police action. House to House, rice paddy to rice paddy, anthill to anthill, valley to valley. The enemies game and rules.

Of course we won militarily, so what we lost the War, and 50,000 great Americans.

The question is what are we going to do in this war on terror? The same thing? Rules of engagement, truces, ceasefires?

I don't see people in America telling the President to fight this war for real, I just see people supporting the President blindly. We did that in Vietnam and lost even though our troops kicked butt the whole time.

Just because you don't surrender don't mean you can't lose.
We could have stayed in Vietnam and sent one million troops and we still would have won militarily but we would have lost the war and had to leave just like we did in 1975 because we were fighting according to the enemies rules.

Just like in Nam we can lose in Iraq, even if we do not surrender or pull out or lose our political nerve. Even if we were to stay there with 500,000 troops we would lose because we are playing by the enemies rules. AND the enemy, has no rules.

We allow the enemy to regroup, we allow the enemy to hide in churches, we conduct limited kinder gentler compassionate conventional warfare when we have the military might to conduct unlimited complete annihilating quick warfare. Instead of, after telling the civilians to get the hell out, blasting Fullujah with B52s, we call a truce.

We are afraid and scared of emboldening the enemy, instead of making sure the enemy is afraid to death of emboldening US!

So what does the enemy do? The resupply, regroup, attack our supply convoys to Fallujah, and other rear areas.

And soon, very soon, you will see the enemy take advantage of our kinder gentler compassionate combat by exploding a horrifying WMD and killing 5000 of our troops. That is what we will harvest for all of our good will and "hearts and minds" tactics.

The People need to tell the President:

Either Fight with everything we have - or get everything we have - out of there.
41 posted on 04/17/2004 2:59:37 PM PDT by TomasUSMC
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To: TomasUSMC
Either Fight with everything we have - or get everything we have - out of there.

I agree with that. But we did win militarily in Viet Nam, and we are close to winning in Iraq.

We surrendered in Viet Nam, and the Leftists here would like us to surrender in Iraq.
Sure, if we don't surrender, some more American lives will be lost. But what they have fought for will be achieved, and their war will not have been fought in vain.

We do not have to slaughter thousands of Iraqis to win. Most Iraqis would just like to live in peace. It is ridiculous (I almost used more inflammatory language) to think otherwise.
We will never lose militarily. Our military is too good for that. We either win or surrender.

42 posted on 04/17/2004 5:55:42 PM PDT by speekinout
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To: speekinout; TomasUSMC
Amen to what you said, speekinout.

Tomas, read those words carefully.

Your prophesy of doom is wrong. Our soldiers WON in Viet Nam, and they are winning in Iraq.

The policy in Viet Nam was made by politicians, and now it is being made by the military with a Commander in Chief who possesses courage and commitment to military victory.

If you don't believe that now, you will eventually, because it is the truth.

As speekinout said, we do not NEED to slaughter innocent Iraqis as you would like our soldiers to do. This is a different era with different weapons, and this is a different war.

Every time you say it is the same as Viet Nam, you hurt the soldiers and their families, just as the left does when it makes the bogus comparison in their effort to regain power

The only difference is that it is their intent to hurt us. I assume your intent is not to do harm.......but I don't have a clue as to why youm on thread after thread, continue to demoralize our brave soldiers and their families with your dark words.

It is shameful, IMO, and you should stop.

43 posted on 04/17/2004 7:52:16 PM PDT by ohioWfan (BUSH 2004 - Leadership, Integrity, Morality)
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To: river rat
The similarity of 'burning vehicles' is not enough to make the continued comparison, as Tomas does, that we are in another Viet Nam.

Please read what I posted to him.

He is demoralizing the troops and families of troops who read his dark words, and that is, in my opinion, wrong.

I included you in my post to him because you seemed to be giving unqualified assent to his negativity and pessimism. If you don't feel the same as he does, good.

btw, just having the power to 'unleash overwhelming destruction' doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, or even the best option militarily.

As a vet, you should know that.

44 posted on 04/17/2004 7:58:46 PM PDT by ohioWfan (BUSH 2004 - Leadership, Integrity, Morality)
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To: ohioWfan
Jesus but he looks like a baby. Thankfully he made it back home safely.
45 posted on 04/17/2004 8:22:23 PM PDT by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig (Next up in the hiring process is the polygraph. Time to practice. Yes No Yes No No No No)
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To: ohioWfan
ohio, we have the best military forces ever assembled. As you know. We will never lose militarily.
Those of us at home *must* do all we can to re-elect President Bush so that we will not surrender. President Bush has the courage and the determination to finish the war on terrorism. We have to be united and strong. The best thing we can do for our superb young people is to make sure that their leaders are committed to them, and will never abandon them.
Our wars are about political will.
46 posted on 04/17/2004 8:31:32 PM PDT by speekinout
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
I LOVE this photo of "a terrorist captured with tools used to make improvised explosive devices".

Dear God I love our guys, I love our stuff, I love the fact that the Lord has prospered this nation with men and material and the will to fight for the right things, and that He helps us. I do not have the words to express it well enough.

47 posted on 04/17/2004 8:31:48 PM PDT by GretchenEE (Want to see more US soldiers stay alive? Drench them in prayer!)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
4th Battalion on Parris Island

What's the story with that?

48 posted on 04/17/2004 8:35:55 PM PDT by GretchenEE (Want to see more US soldiers stay alive? Drench them in prayer!)
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To: archy; All
Anyone know what the sniper (post 37) has wrapped around his weapon, what it's made of, and its purpose?
49 posted on 04/17/2004 8:46:57 PM PDT by GretchenEE (Want to see more US soldiers stay alive? Drench them in prayer!)
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To: GretchenEE
Anyone know what the sniper (post 37) has wrapped around his weapon, what it's made of, and its purpose?

Yep. It's strips of *Sniper veil* a*veil*able [sorry!] in colours ranging from rocky/sandy, as per the Swiss one shown below, to the more greenish ones the Brits and Russians issue. And if you don't like the green colour of one for use in Afghanistan or Iraq, just leave it out in the sun a few days, then dye it with MRE coffee or messhall tea.

The Canadians and Dutch have them in varying colours, too, as do the South Africans. The Marine in the pic uses cloth veil strips for camo on his rifle. I like tan masking tape strips.


50 posted on 04/17/2004 9:03:58 PM PDT by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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