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Expedition Will Seek to Find Noah's Ark
AP ^ | 4/27/2004 | HOPE YEN

Posted on 04/27/2004 5:00:15 AM PDT by a_Turk

WASHINGTON (AP) -- An expedition is being planned for this summer to the upper reaches of Turkey's Mount Ararat where organizers hope to prove an object nestled amid the snow and ice is Noah's Ark.

A joint U.S.-Turkish team of 10 explorers plans to make the arduous trek up Turkey's tallest mountain, at 17,820 feet, from July 15 to August 15, subject to the approval of the Turkish government, said Daniel P. McGivern, president of Shamrock-The Trinity Corporation of Honolulu, Hawaii.

The goal: to enter what they believe to be a mammoth structure some 45 feet high, 75 feet wide and up to 450 feet long that was exposed in part by last summer's heat wave in Europe.

"We are not excavating it. We are not taking any artifacts. We're going to photograph it and, God willing, you're all going to see it," McGivern said.

Explorers have long searched for an ark on the high slopes of Mount Ararat, where the biblical account of the Great Flood places it.

In 1957, Turkish air force pilots spotted a boat-shaped formation in Agri province. The government did not pursue the sighting, however. The entire area, including Mount Ararat, was off limits to foreigners because of Soviet complaints that explorers were U.S. spies.

That ban was lifted in 1982, and since then teams of explorers have visited the area but have been unable to substantiate any claim of an ark.

McGivern and Ahmet Ali Arslan, a Turkish mountain climber who grew up in a town near Mount Ararat, say satellite photos have helped them pinpoint a more exact location. Arslan will be leading the expedition.

The biblical account in the Book of Genesis says that after the great deluge, the ark came to rest on the mountain with Noah's family and a cargo of male and female pairs of every kind of animal.

Geologists say even though there is evidence of a flood in Mesopotamia in Sumerian times, it is not possible for a ship to make landfall at an altitude as high as Mount Ararat.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: ararat; ark; arslan; mcgivern; noah; noahsark; turkey; us

1 posted on 04/27/2004 5:00:16 AM PDT by a_Turk
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To: Shermy; aristotleman; prairiebreeze; Dog Gone; alethia; AM2000; ARCADIA; ...
ping
2 posted on 04/27/2004 5:00:55 AM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, and Justice..)
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To: a_Turk
when they turn on their live internet feed, I wanna know so I can follow their progress. (I hope they have one)
3 posted on 04/27/2004 5:04:55 AM PDT by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it with something for you))
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To: a_Turk

4 posted on 04/27/2004 5:07:20 AM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: TonyRo76
that would be too cool if they actually found the ark.
7 posted on 04/27/2004 5:20:09 AM PDT by holdmuhbeer
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To: a_Turk
This is so cool. But, UGH, I'd not want to be one of 'em that has to climb up that mountain to have a peek, LOL. Good thing they're taking a Turk with 'em as leader of the group! : )


8 posted on 04/27/2004 5:21:03 AM PDT by Reborn
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To: a_Turk
It would be cool if they find something. Keep us updated.
9 posted on 04/27/2004 5:23:48 AM PDT by TXBubba (aka TXBubbette)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: a_Turk

11 posted on 04/27/2004 5:26:22 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: a_Turk
It is my honest belief that certain religious "artifacts" such as Noah's Ark will never be discovered. Some things have to be accepted purely on the basis of faith.
12 posted on 04/27/2004 5:27:51 AM PDT by MJM59
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To: a_Turk
Geologists say even though there is evidence of a flood in Mesopotamia in Sumerian times, it is not possible for a ship to make landfall at an altitude as high as Mount Ararat.

Unless it were an airship...
13 posted on 04/27/2004 5:29:11 AM PDT by farfromhome
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To: a_Turk
Uh, it's already been found years ago. See Ron Wyatt's "Presentation of Discoveries". Turkey even built a viewing site with restaurant over looking it. The media just doesn't like to report things like this. I believe the find was in the late eighties.
14 posted on 04/27/2004 5:32:55 AM PDT by In God I trust
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To: MJM59
There is also the viewpoint that the Torah is NOT to be interpreted literally.

What some Jews believe is that the narratives in the Torah are to instruct us in the ways of G-d, and are not to be understood as actual historical events.

Very much as the parables of Jesus were meant to be instructive, to inform, to make a point, obviously not to be taken as having literally happened.
15 posted on 04/27/2004 6:13:19 AM PDT by RonHolzwarth
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To: a_Turk
Oh, puh-leeze. Someone's riding the wave after that exceedingly mediocre "Passion" movie to bilk some gullible Bible-thumpers out of some money. As for whoever said "it's already been found", where do you get your archeological science news? Pat Robertson?
16 posted on 04/27/2004 6:18:06 AM PDT by JBS
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To: a_Turk
Wild goose chase bump.
17 posted on 04/27/2004 6:24:55 AM PDT by aristotleman
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To: farfromhome
Geologists say even though there is evidence of a flood in Mesopotamia in Sumerian times, it is not possible for a ship to make landfall at an altitude as high as Mount Ararat.

Unless it were an airship...


...or there was this REALLY BIG flood !
18 posted on 04/27/2004 6:26:04 AM PDT by sawmill trash (Even my squirrel dogs like Pres. Bush ! (they think kerry is a fine place to raise a leg.))
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To: JBS
I have a video that I purchased off the Internet years ago. The man is a Christian archaeologist and the video shows you the ark and visitors viewing site that Turkey built over looking the ark. If you don't want to believe then you can go to Turkey and see for yourself. Just because you haven't heard about this on "TV" doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There is literally a place built in Turkey over looking the ark. I didn't make this up. The video is called "Presentation of Discoveries" by Ron Wyatt. Find it on the web for yourself.
19 posted on 04/27/2004 6:34:28 AM PDT by In God I trust
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To: billorites
I remember when that 'Bat-Boy' picture came out in the tabloids. I was in elementary school. I remember thinking, "If you really had a kid that looked like that, why would you take him to a nice portrait studio and get high quality black and white pictures made?"

Maybe I was too smart for my own good.
20 posted on 04/27/2004 6:45:49 AM PDT by jtminton ("Being a 'moderate' Muslims means you only want to kill the Jews." - Micheal Graham)
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: sawmill trash
"...or there was this REALLY BIG flood !"


Which there obviously wasn't since there's not enough water on Earth now to cover the planet in a flood. Even if there had been the amount of rainfall necessary for a flood, the resulting atmospheric pressure from all that rain would've been far too much for any surface life to have survived, Noah included.

It's a nice story for the kids that doesn't hold water when looked at through the eyes of elementary science. Since mass is neither created nor destroyed, what happened to all that water?
22 posted on 04/27/2004 6:52:44 AM PDT by Blzbba
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To: JBS
In what way is the movie, 'The Passion of the Christ', mediocre? Please be specific.
23 posted on 04/27/2004 6:55:35 AM PDT by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: In God I trust
However much I would like to see the Ark discovered, Ron Wyatt appears to have been a charlatan.

There was a link to a creationist website here on FR a few days ago, where they gave 'points' not to talk about when having discussions with evolutionists. One of those points concerned Ron Wyatt and his charlatan ways.

24 posted on 04/27/2004 7:06:07 AM PDT by bigcheese ("Standing on the beach with a gun in my hand, staring at the sea, staring at the sand...")
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To: a_Turk
read later
25 posted on 04/27/2004 7:23:23 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: bigcheese
The Institute for Creation Research being dubious about an Ark-hunter is like Al Queda being dubious about another terrorist group because they're "too violent."
26 posted on 04/27/2004 7:50:18 AM PDT by John H K
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To: a_Turk; BOBWADE; Mrs Zip
Keep me on the ping list. thx
27 posted on 04/27/2004 7:54:17 AM PDT by zip (Remember: DimocRat lies told often enough became truth to 42% of americans)
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To: JBS
Welcome back from DU, troll. Haven't seen you leftist rants for a while. Have you been sick? (sicker)
28 posted on 04/27/2004 8:00:32 AM PDT by zip (Remember: DimocRat lies told often enough became truth to 42% of americans)
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To: TonyRo76
Excellent post. thx
29 posted on 04/27/2004 8:01:48 AM PDT by zip (Remember: DimocRat lies told often enough became truth to 42% of americans)
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To: a_Turk
it is not possible for a ship to make landfall at an altitude as high as Mount Ararat.

Luke 1:37 - "For nothing is impossible with God."

Matt. 19:26 - "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible"

I think I'll take God's Word for it.

Frankly, I don't care whether they find the Ark or not, I believe the Bible. If they DO find it, we can only begin to imagine the battle that would ensue over "ownership".

30 posted on 04/27/2004 8:03:56 AM PDT by mombonn
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To: mombonn; a_Turk
I'm in agreement with you and the scriptures you posted mombonn. I think it would be neat to "find" it, however, if found, people would worship it, etc. I'm not sure how I would feel if they found actual gopher wood at the top of a mountain.

At any rate, it's fascinating and I would appreciate you pinging me to any updates, a_Turk.

31 posted on 04/27/2004 9:49:08 AM PDT by SpookBrat
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To: John H K
It appears that you are inferring from my post that I believe in ICR. I don't (not by a long, long, long shot ;-) But for someone who might be 'inclined' to believe Ron Wyatt's tales, well then, ICR would appear be a legitimate and authoritative 'counterweight'. :-)

Not to you specifically, but didn't Ron Wyatt say all the evidence he had was supposed to be released after his death? The Ark, Ark of the Convenant, Mt. Sinai, etc, etc... I think he died in 1998.

BTW, did you know there were Fiber Optics on Noah's Ark?

32 posted on 04/27/2004 12:51:05 PM PDT by bigcheese ("Standing on the beach with a gun in my hand, staring at the sea, staring at the sand...")
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To: billorites
How old is your boy in that picture?
33 posted on 04/27/2004 12:55:15 PM PDT by MEGoody (Kerry - isn't that a girl's name? (Conan O'Brian))
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To: RonHolzwarth
"Very much as the parables of Jesus were meant to be instructive, to inform, to make a point, obviously not to be taken as having literally happened."

Yep, the parables were. But New Testament scripture talks of Noah and the flood as an historical event.

All boils down to what we each choose to believe.

34 posted on 04/27/2004 12:59:31 PM PDT by MEGoody (Kerry - isn't that a girl's name? (Conan O'Brian))
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To: Blzbba
"Which there obviously wasn't since there's not enough water on Earth now to cover the planet in a flood"

Really? So you've checked this out?

Good, I have a few questions, which I'm sure you can answer.

On average, at any given time, how many millions of gallons of water are in clouds floating over the earth?

How many millions of gallons of water make up the ice at each of the poles?

How many millions of gallons of water are sitting elsewhere across the world in snowcapped peaks, etc.?

How many millions of gallons of water are in underground bodies of water?

35 posted on 04/27/2004 1:07:45 PM PDT by MEGoody (Kerry - isn't that a girl's name? (Conan O'Brian))
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To: John H K
"The Institute for Creation Research being dubious about an Ark-hunter. . ."

And you being dubious about the Institute for Creation Research is like John Kerry being dubious about George Bush.

36 posted on 04/27/2004 1:10:12 PM PDT by MEGoody (Kerry - isn't that a girl's name? (Conan O'Brian))
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To: Reborn
I see some blue arrows and a red circle. Other than that, not sure what I'm looking at. (The ridge the blue arrows is pointing to just looks like a mountain ridge to me. I can't figure out what the red circle is highlighting.

Guess we'll find out.

37 posted on 04/27/2004 1:13:47 PM PDT by MEGoody (Kerry - isn't that a girl's name? (Conan O'Brian))
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To: MEGoody
Ancient text and the bible said that the ark was in Armenia. The problem is that Ancient Armenia was in the mountains of Iran. Which is why the Bible said that the left the ark and traveled from the east into the Mesopotamia plain.

The current mount Ararat didn't even get its current name till the 12th century. That is when the Armenian Christians had the Bible translated into their own language. And since that is the only mountain of note in the area, it became "Ararat." If you read the scripture it says the "mountainS" of Ararat. It is in the mountains, not on a lone mountain on a plain.

38 posted on 04/27/2004 1:17:36 PM PDT by D Rider
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To: MEGoody
"Really? So you've checked this out?"


As a former hydrogeologist, yes I have...


Good, I have a few questions, which I'm sure you can answer."


Shoot.


"On average, at any given time, how many millions of gallons of water are in clouds floating over the earth?"


Not enough to flood the Earth if combined with all other forms of water.



"How many millions of gallons of water make up the ice at each of the poles?"

Not enough to flood the Earth if combined with all other forms of water.


"How many millions of gallons of water are sitting elsewhere across the world in snowcapped peaks, etc.?"

Not enough to flood the Earth if combined with all other forms of water.


"How many millions of gallons of water are in underground bodies of water?"


Not enough to flood the Earth if combined with all other forms of water.



Sorry, but this isn't even 'science' as much as it is simple mathematics. The volume of water needed to flood the world to the tip of Mt. Ararat (which isn't nearly as high as Mt. Everest, throwing another monkey wrench into this children's story) simply doesn't exist on this planet.

And again, the resultant atmospheric pressure due to this mythical amount of rainfall would've smothered Noah and his zoo long before they supposedly crashed on a mountain top in Turkey.

Most geologists agree that the mythical Flood was probably due to the Mediterranean Sea finally overflowing the Hellespont and creating the Black Sea. To the uneducated, mostly-illiterate masses living in the area at the time, I'm sure it was a terrifying event that few, if any, in the area survived. The more the story is retold down-the-road from the actual event, the more the details of the event get embellished, as all human beings are prone to doing when telling a good story. There's certainly large grains of fact in the story itself, however.

I wouldn't be surprised if an old man (Noah) took it upon himself after a Godly warning to make a big boat and gather as many animals as possible. But therein lies another problem, since it would've been impossible for Noah to gather the animals of Africa, most of Asia, and Australia. Not only would his boat be the size of a country to hold all these animals, but he would've needed Santa's magic sleigh to do all this in the 40 or so days of warning.





39 posted on 04/27/2004 1:47:05 PM PDT by Blzbba
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To: Blzbba
The bible, if I am not mistaken says that water came up from the earth so it would not have all been in the atmosphere and so the atmospheric pressure issue is a non-issue.

Further, it doesn't say Noah went to collect all the animals. Rather God brought all the animals to Noah. So Noah would not have needed a "santa-sleigh" as you called it. Moreover, if the animals were infants-animals (cubs, calfs etc) then the ark would not have had to be so big as you seem to think. A baby elephant is alot smaller than an adult elephant.

regards,

ivory
40 posted on 04/27/2004 2:12:18 PM PDT by Ebony and Ivory
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To: Ebony and Ivory
"The bible, if I am not mistaken says that water came up from the earth so it would not have all been in the atmosphere and so the atmospheric pressure issue is a non-issue."

Thanks for your response. I don't take the Bible literally at all, so therefore our opinions on this subject will always, respectfully, differ.

Besides, neither of us was around when the event occurred so it's purely speculation on both our parts. You believe the account taken from a book written long ago and unverifiable and I believe in the tested theories of hydrogeology, which are also unverifiable when applied to events in the past.
41 posted on 04/27/2004 4:19:35 PM PDT by Blzbba
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To: Ebony and Ivory
Moreover, if the animals were infants-animals (cubs, calfs etc) then the ark would not have had to be so big as you seem to think. A baby elephant is alot smaller than an adult elephant.

That may help a little on space, but it hurts elsewhere. Infants/young generally require more (and more specialized) care and attention, and more frequent feedings. This is not good when you have a crew of only 8 people.

Let's say, on average, that each species only requires 3 man-minutes of tending per day. With all 8 people working continuously (without stopping to eat, rest or sleep for a year) only 3,840 species could be cared for. Even if the average daily care was only 30 seconds per species, that's still only about 23,000 species at most. Cut that in half if you assume Noah and his family only worked 12 hour days.

Space is the least of your problems. If fact there's way too much space. It's just not possible to build a ship that size out of wood that won't wallow, leak or break apart. Wood isn't strong enough. And remember this ship had to sail on unbelievably violent seas.

42 posted on 04/27/2004 9:29:37 PM PDT by Stultis
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To: Stultis
We don't know what the care was of the animals. We know that after the flood, that God permitted Noah to eat meat (presumably because the plants have been killed off). So if man's dietary habits were different before and after the flood, then perhaps the same is true for animals. But making sure the animals eat enough seems to be a small problem compared with making the world flood. But even if what you say is correct, I will remind you that God could have given Noah an ark, but instead he made him work for it for 120 years. Obviously, God values hard work. So 12 hour days aren't out of the realm of possibility.

Moreover, in Genesis 4:22, it mentions that man already had knowledge of making tools out of iron. It says that the ark was built out of cypress wood, but the bible doesn't give the actual blueprints. So, since man had the knowledge of iron toolmaking, perhaps in addition to cypress wood, they also used iron to connect it.

I am reminded of a story of American architect, frank Lloyd wright, who built a home in my hometown of grand rapids. Franklin Lloyd Wright is well known for cantilevers. He built one on a house in grand rapids that was huge and it had no support. The foreman of the constructuion crew didn't think it could be done so he made the cantilever out of stronger steel so it would stay up. It turns out that the stronger steel made the cantilever fail (and it is now supported as a result) and that if the foreman used the material FL Wright wanted, we now know that the cantilever would have worked out as planned. If FL Wright can design buildings that other "experts" think won't work, just think what God can design that human "experts" think won't work.

regards,

Ivory
43 posted on 04/27/2004 10:11:21 PM PDT by Ebony and Ivory
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker
Other than being a 2-hour snuff film? Maybe the fact that the lady playing Mary never changes her expression once throughout the movie? That the movie just drags on and on and on? The guy playing Jesus might have done a good job, I don't know. He was slathered in fake blood and has two inches of makeup on his face the whole time.
44 posted on 04/29/2004 5:22:58 AM PDT by JBS
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To: JBS
re: bilk some gullible Bible-thumpers out of some money.)))

Likely--but...seems to me that there are a lot of stupid reasons to climb mountains. Looking for relics sounds as good as "because it's there."

45 posted on 04/29/2004 5:26:09 AM PDT by Mamzelle (for a post-Neo conservatism)
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To: JBS
I hope you find what you are looking for. The magnificent love of Jesus Christ is powerful enough to break down any wall.
46 posted on 04/29/2004 5:37:28 AM PDT by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: Blzbba
That's nice, but you didn't answer my questions. Can you? If not, that's okay.
47 posted on 04/29/2004 9:52:13 AM PDT by MEGoody (Kerry - isn't that a girl's name? (Conan O'Brian))
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To: MEGoody
"On average, at any given time, how many millions of gallons of water are in clouds floating over the earth?"



1. About 3,100 cubic miles of water, mostly in the form of water vapor, is in the atmosphere at any one time. If it all fell as precipitation at once, the Earth would be covered with only about 1 inch of water. A cubic mile of water equals more than one trillion gallons.



How many millions of gallons of water make up the ice at each of the poles?

2. Approximately 7,000,000 cubic miles of water.


How many millions of gallons of water are sitting elsewhere across the world in snowcapped peaks, etc.?


3. That number is included in #2.


How many millions of gallons of water are in underground bodies of water?


4. More than 2,000,000 cubic miles of fresh water is stored in the Earth, most within one-half mile of the surface.


BTW, the total water supply of the world is roughly 326 million cubic miles. According to the Flood story of Genesis, it rained for 40 days and nights, so, taken literally, the water source was atmospheric in nature. As the above fact states, there's only enough atmospheric water to cover the earth in 1" of water, and that's assuming that the earth itself doesn't absorb any, nor is there any runoff, which are both preposterous assumptions to make.


48 posted on 04/29/2004 10:40:47 AM PDT by Blzbba
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker
Not looking for anything, no walls that need breaking down. But thanks for the sentiment.
49 posted on 04/29/2004 10:48:19 AM PDT by JBS
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To: JBS
Everyone is in need of the forgiveness freely offered by Jesus Christ.
50 posted on 04/29/2004 12:15:03 PM PDT by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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