Military Commanders’ Decisions in Fallujah Overridden by Politicians (CONFIRMED)

Fox Live Broadcast / USA Today Interview ^ | 5/3/04 | Jim Michaels

[CWOJackson]

"...interviewed Jim Michaels (USA Today Reporter) just back from Fallujah."

Confirmed? By a USA Today Reporter?

[elfman2]

"Why dont you just respond to what I said? "

Respond to what. You gave me nothing but a temper tantrum.

We don’t like each other. By now we both think of each other as blowhards. Fine, who cares. Let’s go beyond that.

You claim to have the authority (and an interest) to get me into the Pentagon? Let’s go with that.

Background… I didn’t like the ceasefires from the beginning. Always suspected someone above the Marines going wobbly. I promoted that idea here a week into the battle and caught the same kind of shit you’re putting out now.

Then came the USA today interview saying the Governing Counsel and Bremer pressed it. To me that was confirmation. New war, same Vietnameque BS.

Then comes gandalftb, with reports of Marines walking into an ambush and taking several days to pull it together. Now (yesterday) talk from him of borrowing armor from the Army, AC out of area and late to arrive, ect… No marrying that with a timeline, so no telling if the Marines had that before or after ceasefire implemented. There’s a big difference.

I don’t know what you imagine with me going to the Pentagon, but I’d like to know why there’s never been a story from someone quoting USMC commanders in Iraq about their view of the ceasefire. Not their view of the Fallujah Brigade creation, the ceasefire. I’ve looked for it.

I think it’s because it was rammed down their throat. I take it that you think General Conway made the call irrespective of political pressure. Fine put me in touch with someone who knows this personally and is willing to talk on record. Or can find a report of it. AFAIK, no report exists.

Freepermail me. I’ll give you my name and number even my address if they need it, but I’m going to need to make the call to your contact so that I know who I’m speaking with.

You real enough to arrange that?

[elfman2]

That’s impressive. Do you dress up like a Marine General, and put little GI Joes around you when you post as one? LOL

[Pukin Dog]

I think it’s because it was rammed down their throat. I take it that you think General Conway made the call irrespective of political pressure. Fine put me in touch with someone who knows this personally and is willing to talk on record. Or can find a report of it. AFAIK, no report exists.

Thats it? YOU THINK, therefore it must be so? You see, that is my point. Where is your evidence? You have an opinion. That makes you no better than the Media. What have you got that would deserve a serious inquiry? My challenge to you, is to go beyond your opinion, and provide something deserving serious attention, and I will indeed hook you up with a contact. You can freepermail me that, along with dates that you can be in DC, and then I will find out who would be available on those dates to respond to your questions. But I tell you right now, your opinion alone wont be enough to get you an audience. I challenged you, because I figure will all the crap you are trying to put out here, that there might be something solid behind it. You don't have to put it out here, just mail it to me and we can go from there. Fair enough?

[gandalftb]

By the time the 24 Abrams and the 3rd MAW were operational in-country the "brigade" effort was well underway and offensive inertia was lost. Elfman is right about the lack of comment about the ceasefire. Colonel Toolan, Gen. Conways chief of staff has only spoken around the subject and he is not one to do so. My sense is it's a relief to stand down but it left a bitter after-taste for not getting the hard core hold-outs and heavy weapons.

BTW the heavy weapons weren't just RPGs, they had truck mounted AA that we want badly. We will be fighting the hard-core holdouts again.

BTW Bremer never talks to 1MEF directly but through CentCom: Abizaid who defers to Sanchez who talks to 1MEF. They all put their 2 cents into the mix and lean on Conway/Mattis.

I don't like Bremer, he doesn't respect operational initiative and thinks he's a warfighter at the same time. He needs to go ASAP. al-Sistani won't speak to him and it slowed down our success in Najaf/Karbala/Kufa.

If your arranging a tour of the Pentagon, count me in, I have some questions, I'll behave, should I pack a lunch?

[elfman2]

Hmm. So you say that you’ll “march my ass” in front of a Pentagon authority, and then wiggle out of even being able to schedule a phone call.

Now it's conditional. I have to mail you convincing evidence by your standards and then fly to DC. I was born dumb, but it wasn't yesterday. Get lost.

[Pukin Dog]

You are an idiot. You think I can set a meeting without a topic? You think you can get into the Pentagon on your feelings alone. Grow up, Idiot. The offer stands. Put up or shut up.

[elfman2]

I think that someone who promises a meeting, and can’t deliver a phone call, and then cant’ figure out the topic from all I’ve written you, more likely works at Wal-Mart than the Pentagon. Get lost.

[Pukin Dog]

I work for Delta Airlines these days. People with a pulse know that. You get lost. Like I said the offer stands. But if you are too stupid to recognize that when I set a meeting, I will need a topic, a premise, AND SUPPORTING EVIDENCE, before anyone is going to agree to sit down with a nobody like you. If you cant put your OPINION into a paragraph with SOMETHING, ANYTHING beyond your own hunches, I would look like the idiot you already appear to be. Now, if this is something you want to do, you need to go about it professionally. You know, the way that people who know what they are talking about do? Give a date, give a topic, give a reason (that can be verified) and I will do exactly what I said. I realize that might be too big a hurdle for an armchair-general to handle, but I'm giving you your shot, smartguy. You gonna follow through? If not, just know that I will pound you every time you spew your crap on this site. I will hound you until you either knock it off, or put something concrete behind your rhetoric. The decision is yours.

[elfman2]

Our conversations reached a point of distrust that I don’t read past any sentence that’s just a name-calling temper-tantrum. I’m sure everyone on this board “with a pulse” knows you’re a big important guy at the Pentagon.

Either get some rest and rework that post another day or don’t write to me.

I suggest you get some help with your emotional instability. You’ll live longer. Regards.

[Pukin Dog]

LOL! It was predicted that when you could not put up, you would respond with your now famous "don't write to me" crap. I'm going to be all over you, son. I don't like people like you who spread lies about our service men and those who lead them. I offered you a chance to redeem yourself, and you punted like the chump I knew you to be. This board is tired of your act, elf, my boy. When you post, I will be on you like stink on a pig, unless you somehow mistakenly stumble into the truth. If you don't like it, you can leave.

[AxelPaulsenJr]

I suggest you get some help with your emotional instability. You’ll live longer. Regards.

I sure hope that he does, he is now flying right seat on a Delta 777, or so he claims.