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ALERT: Plan would grant vote to noncitizens
San Francisco Examiner ^ | 7/2/04 | Adriel Hampton

Posted on 07/05/2004 12:35:21 AM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband

Plan would grant vote to noncitizens

By Adriel Hampton | Staff Writer

Published on Friday, July 2, 2004


URL: http://www.examiner.com/article/index.cfm/i/070204n_vote
E-mail this story | This page is printer-friendly

A reform measure that would allow noncitizens with children in the San Francisco Unified School District to cast ballots in Board of Education elections is moving forward and appears to have the needed support to go before voters in November.

The initiative, perhaps the first step toward giving full voting rights for immigrants, could utilize a "blind registry" system, where parents and guardians are signed up to vote through district records. If passed, it would blend citizens and immigrants, according to Carlos Petroni of the "Parents United for Education" campaign.

"We really want to use the campaign to focus folks on the fact that it is very difficult for immigrants to become citizens," said proponent David Chiu, a board member of Chinese for Affirmative Action. "It takes about 10 years for a legal immigrant to become a citizen, and that's due to the huge bureaucratic backlogs and red tape that they face with the federal government."

Illegal immigrants could also vote under the proposal, introducing some of the same concerns present in the statewide debate over whether to legalize driver's licenses for undocumented workers.

"Proponents of both [proposals] can say this is a way that people who are already here can engage," said Laura Hill, a research fellow with the Public Policy Institute of California. "The other side has arguments as well -- [that immigrants] should participate in the same rules and regulations as everyone else."

Karthick Ramakrishnan, also with the institute, said that for those who concede the right of undocumented immigrant's children to be schooled here, it's not a difficult leap to extend Board of Education voting rights to their parents.

"You already have a lot of immigrant parents who are not citizens but nevertheless participate in school board meetings and in their children's education, and this could be another way for them to be involved," he said.

Immigrants comprise about a fifth of voting-age Californians. Proponents of the San Francisco initiative estimate as many as one-third of the 60,000 kids in public schools here have at least one noncitizen parent.

Cities in Maryland, New York, Illinois and Massachusetts have already allowed forms of noncitizen voting.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: aliens; governmentschools; governtmentskrools; illegalaliens; immigrantlist; invasion; sanfrancisco; socialism; welfarestate

1 posted on 07/05/2004 12:35:21 AM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband
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To: I_Love_My_Husband

INTREP - what part of "illegal" do't they understand?????


2 posted on 07/05/2004 12:37:59 AM PDT by LiteKeeper (Secularization of America)
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To: LiteKeeper
Hey don't offend their feelings. They're simply undocumented potential citizens.
3 posted on 07/05/2004 12:39:12 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: gubamyster; Bella_Bru; KneelBeforeZod

ping


4 posted on 07/05/2004 12:40:42 AM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband (Borders, Language, Culture, Straights - now more than ever)
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To: goldstategop
Potential democrats I believe you mean.
5 posted on 07/05/2004 12:41:58 AM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband (Borders, Language, Culture, Straights - now more than ever)
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To: All
Carlos Petroni is an unabashed Marxist. Parents United For Education b.s. It's another Clinton-like tactic.
6 posted on 07/05/2004 12:43:28 AM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband (Borders, Language, Culture, Straights - now more than ever)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband

LOL


7 posted on 07/05/2004 12:43:30 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: LiteKeeper
Bag the concept of citizenship altogether and allow Russians, Chinese and the rest of the people on the planet vote via absentee ballot.

Then later, when the animal rights advocates demand equal rights for mammals, we can extend suffrage to those creatures as well.

Alas, insects will just have to wait.

8 posted on 07/05/2004 12:54:42 AM PDT by zarf
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: I_Love_My_Husband

i grew up in fremont ca,back then it was a small town flags parades ect.ect now for fouth of july parade one councilmember wanted 300 flags of all nations in the parade back it down to 50 then 35 the boy scouts finally said no way only the us flag will fly i did not go to see it who knows what happend?


10 posted on 07/05/2004 1:16:17 AM PDT by m_cord.
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To: I_Love_My_Husband; All

Some of these people pushing this belong to the below organizations:

http://www.cpusa.org/

http://www.dsausa.org/

DSA's "Progressive Caucus" Links below:

http://bernie.house.gov/pc/

http://bernie.house.gov/pc/members.asp

They are the Enemy Within!!!!


11 posted on 07/05/2004 1:39:46 AM PDT by Defender2 (Defending Our Bill of Rights, Our Constitution, Our Country and Our Freedom!!!!)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
"It takes about 10 years for a legal immigrant to become a citizen, and that's due to the huge bureaucratic backlogs and red tape that they face with the federal government."

It should not be easy or a fast process to become a naturalized citizen.

It needs to take a long time to become a citizen. The United States is a very different nation than any other.

A citizen of The United States has more freedom than nearly any other country an individual needs to be come acclimated to that freedom and the historical background of that freedom.

Our freedom has to be protected. Part of that protection is ensuring that those who come here hoping to share those freedoms understand the nature of freedom and are ready to accept the responsiblities of exercising and protecting freedom.

12 posted on 07/05/2004 1:53:13 AM PDT by Pontiac (Ignorance of the law is no excuse, ignorance of your rights can be fatal.)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband

Still, "no taxation without representation." May I suggest that if aliens aren't allowed to vote in American elections, they should be immune from American taxation?


13 posted on 07/05/2004 2:00:58 AM PDT by Grut
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To: I_Love_My_Husband

Doesn't mention why this has gained traction in SanFran. SanFran is near the top for cost of living, and cost of raising children in the big cities in the country. The number of childrenin SanFran unified is dropping, while the numbers of children across Cali enrolled is raising, mostly do to cost. This skewed reality means greater % of children in the school system are from immigrant households.

How are school taxes collected in CA? Through property taxes? Don't immigrants, especially illegal immigrants, have the lowest rate of home ownership in the country? Probably even lower in CA, and even lower still in SanFran. Truly 3 wolves and a sheep deciding whats for dinner.


14 posted on 07/05/2004 2:01:17 AM PDT by JerseyHighlander
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To: Grut

Aren't school taxes raised through property tax levies? In this age of mass immigration in CA, isn't this literally immigrants flexing their new numerical and political muscle. The only immigrants who will vote against this (in a small bloc) are those who see past the BS that will be spouted and understand that their rent will increase when school budgets increase. Immigrants who own homes will fall within regular splits for or against any budget.


15 posted on 07/05/2004 2:08:01 AM PDT by JerseyHighlander
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To: I_Love_My_Husband

The nose is under the tent. Pretty soon they will demand to vote in fed elections. Then, if illegals here can vote for Pres., why not everyone else in the world...since what the US does has such a far reaching effect, it's only fair. The UN and the World Court will think that's a swell idea, and there goes the neighborhood.


16 posted on 07/05/2004 2:23:15 AM PDT by hershey
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To: I_Love_My_Husband

They need to be reminded that immigration is a federal issue, and that they cannot as a local government, grant voting privileges to people who cannot vote legally or reside in this country.

Can these officials go to the countries of origin and vote in elections in lets say Mexico?

RECIPROCATION!!!!!


17 posted on 07/05/2004 2:50:27 AM PDT by television is just wrong
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To: JerseyHighlander
Aren't school taxes raised through property tax levies?

In California, a large proportion of sales taxes also go to education, as well as from the state general fund. CA spends a lot of money on schools for little return.

18 posted on 07/05/2004 3:19:42 AM PDT by jimtorr
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
>>Karthick Ramakrishnan, also with the institute, said that for those who concede the right of undocumented immigrant's children to be schooled here, it's not a difficult leap to extend Board of Education voting rights to their parents.<<

Mr.(?) Ramakrishnan conveniently omits that no one except leftist, progressive, liberal "immigration reform" activists has conceded "the right" of undocumented immigrant children to be schooled here. That "right" has been thrust upon the American people by a series of US Supreme Court decisions; decisions that were rendered by nine unelected, appointed-for-life, and virtually unremoveable federal judges.

It is time to rethink the lfetime tenure of federal judges.
19 posted on 07/05/2004 3:33:20 AM PDT by Captain Rhino ("If you will just abandon logic, these things will make a lot more sense to you!")
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
>>Karthick Ramakrishnan, also with the institute, said that for those who concede the right of undocumented immigrant's children to be schooled here, it's not a difficult leap to extend Board of Education voting rights to their parents.<<

Mr.(?) Ramakrishnan conveniently omits that no one except leftist, progressive, liberal "immigration reform" activists has conceded "the right" of undocumented immigrant children to be schooled here. That "right" has been thrust upon the American people by a series of US Supreme Court decisions; decisions that were rendered by nine unelected, appointed-for-life, and virtually unremoveable federal judges.

It is time to rethink the lifetime tenure of federal judges.
20 posted on 07/05/2004 3:34:43 AM PDT by Captain Rhino ("If you will just abandon logic, these things will make a lot more sense to you!")
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To: Captain Rhino

Pardon the double posting. Server delay in updating the comments section made me think it hadn't gone through.


21 posted on 07/05/2004 3:36:43 AM PDT by Captain Rhino ("If you will just abandon logic, these things will make a lot more sense to you!")
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To: I_Love_My_Husband

We have enough trouble trying to accurately count the LEGAL votes. Now they want to add a few partial voters? Who is going to keep this straight?


22 posted on 07/05/2004 4:39:46 AM PDT by eccentric (aka baldwidow)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband

Shoot let's let Iraq, Iran and Syria vote also. Damn, bring them all on.


23 posted on 07/05/2004 5:14:19 AM PDT by Flint
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To: I_Love_My_Husband

Does this surprise you? They care nothing for this country and they don't believe in sovereignity. And democRATs will do anything for votes that will support their vision of absolute power over the people.


24 posted on 07/05/2004 5:28:36 AM PDT by sweetliberty
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To: I_Love_My_Husband

Previous thread. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1157484/posts.


25 posted on 07/05/2004 5:59:35 AM PDT by Unknown Freeper
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To: Grut

May I suggest that "immune from American taxation" is a stupid idea. The illegals & some legals reap all the other benefits: medical, education, welfare, housing, etc. They can certainly pay taxes to assist with those benefits.

They can also just get busy & do the homework if they want to be citizens & have the PRIVILEGE of voting.

(If you were being sarcastic I apologize ;))


26 posted on 07/05/2004 6:05:06 AM PDT by madison10
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To: *immigrant_list; A Navy Vet; Lion Den Dan; Free the USA; Libertarianize the GOP; madfly; B4Ranch; ..

ping


27 posted on 07/05/2004 8:26:14 AM PDT by gubamyster
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To: eccentric
We have enough trouble trying to accurately count the LEGAL votes.

Your right. The democrats are good at voter fraud and this will just make the waters more murky.

28 posted on 07/05/2004 8:43:10 AM PDT by Missouri
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To: I_Love_My_Husband

The cheapening of American citizenship continues. The majority of American citizens are against granting citizenship privileges to illegal aliens, yet our voices cannot be heard over the agenda of our politicians.


29 posted on 07/05/2004 9:55:06 AM PDT by janetgreen
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Keep in mind, school policies and public tax dollars may be decided and spent by people who are not U. S. citizens.

This is insanity.

30 posted on 07/05/2004 10:09:13 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: I_Love_My_Husband

Does this mean illegal aliens vote too? FWIW the uber liberal bastion of Cambridge Massachusetts tried this crap years ago and it was denied. Americans are turned off by non citizens voting even in school board elections. Slippery slope and all that...


31 posted on 07/05/2004 10:12:23 AM PDT by dennisw (http://www.prophetofdoom.net/)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
And how long before we allow immigrants (aka illegal 'criminal' aliens) to run for President or for Congress or for Judgeships?! Maybe the immigrants will be allowed to sign up and vote in U.S. elections in comfort right in their home town deep in Mexico or China or wherever?!
32 posted on 07/05/2004 10:19:40 AM PDT by Ron H. (Texans - The LoneStarConservative state.)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
It takes about 10 years for a legal immigrant to become a citizen, and that's due to the huge bureaucratic backlogs and red tape that they face with the federal government.

B.S. It took me less than a year.

33 posted on 07/05/2004 10:23:41 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor (...the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband

Let's just score the kalifornia border so that it will break off at the next earthquake.


34 posted on 07/05/2004 10:57:00 AM PDT by ampat
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
If an entity allows non citizen vote, the entities votes
in larger elections should go into file 13.
35 posted on 07/05/2004 11:02:38 AM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Liberals are like catfish ( all mouth and no brains )(bottom feeders))
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To: JerseyHighlander
I think the movie writer/director John Carpenter was onto something:

"In 20**, the rate of communism in America rises beyond measure.

The once-great City By the Bay becomes one big maximum-security facility for America haters.

A fifty-foot containment wall is erected along the shoreline. It completely surrounds inland parameters.

The Golden Gate Bridge and all waterways are mined.

A special division of the California National Guard is encamped around the city.

There are no guards inside the asylum: only lunatics and the fantasy worlds they have made.

The rules are simple. Once you go in, you don't come out."

Escape from San Fran

36 posted on 07/05/2004 11:07:02 AM PDT by NewRomeTacitus (Want to make a difference? http://www.numbersusa.com)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband

The bad news is they already CAN vote, since klintoon signed the National Voter Registration Act of 1993, (Motor Voter) into law. Anyone can register to vote by filling out a voter registration form, and mail it in, they then become a registered voter. Even if they take it in to the county registrar, they can not be asked for proof of citizenship.


37 posted on 07/05/2004 11:26:19 AM PDT by c-b 1
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To: Grut

May I suggest that you can go to live in any country in the world, legally or illegally, as a resident, as a worker, or as a tourist and until you become a citizen of that country you will not be voting in their elections, but you will still be required to pay their taxes.

Why should non citizens be allowed to vote in any election? Allowing that would be no different than allowing me, living here in PA, to vote in CA elections.


38 posted on 07/05/2004 11:31:50 AM PDT by Badray (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown. RIP harpseal.)
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To: LiteKeeper
NTREP - what part of "illegal" do't they understand?????

Don't rely on a dictionary definition of "illegal". Liberal legislators, backed by Liberal judges and justices, can "legally" interpret that word in any way they want to.

Illegals will have to be deported by the millions, leave on their own accord or be assimilated into society. Any other option will have a cost, monitarily and otherwise, that we will not be able to pay and will be able to tolerable.

There will be no mass deportations and few, if any, will leave of their own accord. Yes? No?

39 posted on 07/05/2004 11:45:56 AM PDT by Consort
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To: Old Kular
despite the efforts of the Governator

The same "governator" who has said that it wasn't 'the right time' or 'it wasn't done the right way' on the issue of licenses for illegals?

40 posted on 07/05/2004 12:02:47 PM PDT by Bella_Bru (It's for the children = It takes a village)
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To: Grut
they should be immune from American taxation?

If they do not have the documentation to legally work in the US, they aren't paying taxes. Ever heard of being payed under the table?

41 posted on 07/05/2004 12:04:27 PM PDT by Bella_Bru (It's for the children = It takes a village)
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To: dennisw; gubamyster; I_Love_My_Husband
FWIW the uber liberal bastion of Cambridge Massachusetts tried this crap years ago and it was denied.

I read about this the other day ... but in Georgia. I did a quick search.
It seems to be a coordinated movement: The Immigrant Voting Project

WHAT DOES CITIZENSHIP MEAN
Cities debate whether noncitizens should vote
By TERESA BORDEN
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 07/02/04

There is not a lot that Monica Gonzales and Abdul Bashir have in common — except that both want the right to vote, both could soon get it, and neither is a U.S. citizen.

Gonzales lives in San Francisco. Bashir lives in Washington.

She is a Mexican mother of two and a legal U.S. resident who wants to get involved in the public school system. He is an Ethiopian taxi driver with a green card who is getting evicted from his apartment building after five years because, he thinks, the city wants to tear it down to make way for a ritzy new condo development.

They both pay taxes and participate in their communities, they say, and they want to take part in the politics that affect them and their families.

Now, both their cities are among a handful of places across the nation that are considering giving noncitizens the right to vote in municipal or school elections.

(snip)

There is also a poll at that link... I doubt San Francisco is this sensible.
Should non-citizens have the right to vote?  
 
Yes    4.80%  22  
No    95.20%  436  
 

42 posted on 07/05/2004 12:43:54 PM PDT by calcowgirl
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To: robertpaulsen
Yes, it is insanity. Anyone who favors it is either mentally ill or despises this country.
43 posted on 07/05/2004 4:08:49 PM PDT by Dante3
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