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A Dime's Worth Of Difference? (Liberal Republicans Say "NON!" To Tax Cuts)
OpinionJournal.com ^ | 7/11/04 | Pete Du Pont

Posted on 07/11/2004 9:26:00 PM PDT by goldstategop

An important and serious argument is going on in Washington about whether taxes on Americans' incomes should stay where they are or dramatically rise, and whether government spending should continue its accelerating growth. We know what Democrats think. They despise tax cuts and believe government spending should be higher. Washington Republicans, on the other hand, are unsure of themselves. They used to be for lower taxes and smaller government; now they seem to want bigger spending even if it means higher taxes, abandoning Reagan conservatism for '60s liberalism. In other words, this is a battle for the heart of the Republican Party; the outcome matters, and it seems to be in doubt. With the help of three liberal Republicans (Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins of Maine and Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island), and one who should know better (John McCain of Arizona), the Senate, with 51 votes, adopted a rule that if passed in the House will end all the Bush tax cuts and ensure that no new ones are enacted.

(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: axixofevil; dupont; gop; liberalism; rinos; taxcuts; taxreform
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To: Remember_Salamis

I do like Bill Owens. Has he actually shown interest in being Prez? If so, kets start on it now--count me in!


51 posted on 07/11/2004 10:08:29 PM PDT by RockinRight
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To: GeronL

vative have a voice: We're the muscle, the grassroots. Problem is, they give us lip service and move to the center when election time comes around. The Dems do the same thing, pandering to Socialists during the primaries and then try to move to the center later on.


52 posted on 07/11/2004 10:08:32 PM PDT by Remember_Salamis (Freedom is Not Free)
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To: Lovergirl

I am talking abuot non-war spending. The increase is HUGE


53 posted on 07/11/2004 10:08:39 PM PDT by GeronL (wketchup.com)
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To: DLfromthedesert
It won't pass in the House.

And CFR will be overturned by the courts...

54 posted on 07/11/2004 10:08:44 PM PDT by null and void (Why is OUR oil under THEIR sand???)
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To: Consort

I wouldn't necessarily take Libertarians over the Constitution Party. The goal is to elect one or two candidates, not reduce Republican seats.


55 posted on 07/11/2004 10:08:58 PM PDT by Tax Government
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To: Lovergirl

Actually, Lovergirl, GWB's a big spender on social issues. But as the chart in post #45 illustrates, defense spending is lower than that of 1993.

Money's being spent just in the wrong areas.


56 posted on 07/11/2004 10:09:26 PM PDT by South40 (Amnesty for ILLEGALS is a slap in the face to the USBP!)
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To: Remember_Salamis

Owens sound alright


57 posted on 07/11/2004 10:09:37 PM PDT by GeronL (wketchup.com)
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To: South40

In Dubya's defense, he has done extremely well on defense in light of Clinton's massacre of it.


58 posted on 07/11/2004 10:09:48 PM PDT by RockinRight
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To: GeronL

See post 45.


59 posted on 07/11/2004 10:09:57 PM PDT by South40 (Amnesty for ILLEGALS is a slap in the face to the USBP!)
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To: South40

"I shall exert every faculty I possess in aiding to prevent the Constitution from being nullified, destroyed, or impaired; and even though I should see it fail, I will still, with a voice feeble, perhaps, but earnest as ever issued from human lips, and with extinguish, call on the people to come to its rescue." – Daniel Webster

"It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence." – Charles A. Beard

"Given man's nature, freedom will always be in jeopardy, and the only question that need concern each of us is if and how well we took our stand in its defense during the short period of time when we were potentially a part of the struggle." – Benjamin Rogge

In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man and brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot. – Mark Twain

"I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution, or that have failed in their purpose, or that impose on the people an unwarranted financial burden. I will not attempt to discover whether legislation is 'needed' before I have first determined whether it is constitutionally permissible. And if I should later be attacked for neglecting my constituents' interests, I shall reply that I was informed their main interest is liberty and that in that cause I am doing the very best I can."

--Barry Goldwater, the LAST Libertarian Republican


60 posted on 07/11/2004 10:10:21 PM PDT by Capitalism2003 (America is too great for small dreams. - Ronald Reagan, speech to Congress. January 1, 1984.)
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To: RockinRight

Kerry would gut everything (defense and intelligence wise to the bone to pay for his party's Canada in America drean.


61 posted on 07/11/2004 10:11:05 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: RockinRight
Compared to Klinton GWB has done well in defense spending. Unfortunately, he's outdone Klinton in social spending as well.
62 posted on 07/11/2004 10:11:38 PM PDT by South40 (Amnesty for ILLEGALS is a slap in the face to the USBP!)
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To: Tax Government
I wouldn't necessarily take Libertarians over the Constitution Party. The goal is to elect one or two candidates, not reduce Republican seats.

Can you translate that?

63 posted on 07/11/2004 10:11:58 PM PDT by Consort
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To: RockinRight

GOV. BILL OWENS OF COLORADO IN 2008. THE NEXT REAGAN!!!!


64 posted on 07/11/2004 10:12:13 PM PDT by Remember_Salamis (Freedom is Not Free)
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To: goldstategop

I really like your name for Kerry. Kind of says it all.


65 posted on 07/11/2004 10:13:48 PM PDT by novacation
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To: Consort

Yeah. Become a third-party political force. Elect some good people. Let republicrats take the heat.


66 posted on 07/11/2004 10:14:17 PM PDT by Tax Government
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To: Consort

We could also promote San Francisco Secession, that might help the GOP win California.


67 posted on 07/11/2004 10:14:26 PM PDT by GeronL (wketchup.com)
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To: South40

Thata an aweful ugly picture..


68 posted on 07/11/2004 10:14:40 PM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: Tax Government

Ron Paul is pretty much a libertarian and he is totally ignored by other Republicans.


69 posted on 07/11/2004 10:15:10 PM PDT by GeronL (wketchup.com)
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To: novacation

The champagne & brie Democrat has his Fifth Columnists inside our party.


70 posted on 07/11/2004 10:15:48 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

If the GOP Congress abandons the Bush tax cuts and continues spending like a drunken sailor, it will no longer be home to conservatives. PresBush was successful in his first term because he pushed through three significant tax cuts that together gave more tax relief then Reagan's 1981 Tax Reform Act. Thereby removing funds from the budgetary coffers and leaving less for the feds to spend. Bush`s spending on social programs like education and medicare are the policies of a big governemnt Republican and out of step with the conservative agenda and the recent policy agenda of the GOP. To remain successful, the GOP needs to get back to political planning that promotes policies like the Contract With America.


71 posted on 07/11/2004 10:16:35 PM PDT by Reagan Man (.....................................................The Choice is Clear....... Re-elect BUSH-CHENEY)
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To: Lovergirl
Why does no one understand that 9/11 happened? Do we have to have another attack for people to GET IT?

When 2/26/93 happened we survived quite well. This war of attrition by Muslims against Jews and Christians was happening long before Bush was Pres. We've had numerous acts of terror perpetrated against this country over the last half a century. It took a Bush and Ashcroft to exploit those lunatics actions into a curtailment of all our freedoms. Why do you think Clinton didn't try to push a Constitution shredding Patriot Act on the American People after the WTC was bombed in 93. You can be sure he had it on his desk.

72 posted on 07/11/2004 10:17:33 PM PDT by KDD (where did all the small govt. conservatives go?)
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To: Reagan Man

Truth be told I want MORE tax cuts AND a BIGGER federal deficit. For exactly the reasons the Democrats and their RINO friends oppose them.


73 posted on 07/11/2004 10:18:09 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Remember_Salamis

Bill Owens is a good conservative Republican and would make a fine POTUS, but there's only one Ronald Reagan.


74 posted on 07/11/2004 10:18:55 PM PDT by Reagan Man (.....................................................The Choice is Clear....... Re-elect BUSH-CHENEY)
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To: GeronL

See my FR page. The main problem with both parties is they support the present fiat currency system, which gives them, the government and favored big business an enormous cash cow. It is wholely unconstitutional. They have NO intention of changing or reforming it.


75 posted on 07/11/2004 10:21:06 PM PDT by Tax Government
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To: Lovergirl
And what does the NEA, PBS, The federal education budget, or prescription drugs for seniors have to do with 9/11. Most of his increases have been non military / non defense..
76 posted on 07/11/2004 10:21:41 PM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: Tax Government
Yeah. Become a third-party political force. Elect some good people. Let republicrats take the heat.

That would make you a Kerry Conservative. The Clinton Conservatives had the same misguided "reasoning".....they wanted to "teach Bush 41 a lesson" (same as "Let republicrats take the heat.")....so they voted for Perot or for another third party (like you want to do) or they didn't vote at all...and the Liberals won. If Bush loses, you lose....big time.

77 posted on 07/11/2004 10:21:42 PM PDT by Consort
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To: goldstategop

The GOP needs to make a right turn. I bash Bush a lot over the illegal alien issue, but I hope the GOP can get back to what most of us want to see from them.Bush is pretty liberal and needs to quit letting Fox run the illegal show. Kerry is a nightmare.


78 posted on 07/11/2004 10:21:59 PM PDT by novacation
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To: Lovergirl

Sorry, but this ridiculous spending has nothing to do with defense...The fact is, NON-DEFENSE domestic spending has risen 12.5% annually under Bush and GOP dominance. Entitlements...welfare...education...arts...subsidies...all grown dramtically, along with 60,000 new pages in the government's big regulation book...it has nothing to do with defense and that is why real conservatives are upset.


79 posted on 07/11/2004 10:22:33 PM PDT by Capitalism2003 (America is too great for small dreams. - Ronald Reagan, speech to Congress. January 1, 1984.)
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To: Reagan Man

The GOP will have supporters even if it promotes government medicine and a 75% tax rate.... because the Democrats want it at 80%. All third-party supporters will still be called names.


80 posted on 07/11/2004 10:23:02 PM PDT by GeronL (wketchup.com)
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To: goldstategop

The Democrats and RINO's do not oppose bigger deficits, which should be obvious.


81 posted on 07/11/2004 10:24:16 PM PDT by GeronL (wketchup.com)
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To: Capitalism2003

Which is exactly why we shouldn't grow out of the deficit. If there's a surplus, they'll simply spend all of it and send none back to the taxpayers.


82 posted on 07/11/2004 10:24:31 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: RockinRight

He has done VERY WELL. I can't believe the hatred that comes from the left. Teddy boy doesn't even deserve to be in the Senate but no one has done anything about it. I'm just on a rant because I am so tired of President Bush being bashed. He's my President, he's a good man , and he is doing his best. There is no one on the other side that can hold a candle to President Bush.


83 posted on 07/11/2004 10:24:33 PM PDT by Lovergirl (Bush/Cheney 4 more years)
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To: goldstategop
Correction: Not the 1981 Tax Reform Act. It was the Economic Recovery Tax Act (ERTA) of 1981. It was called the Tax Reform Act (TRA) of 1986. Both were from the conservative policy agenda of PresReagan.
84 posted on 07/11/2004 10:25:16 PM PDT by Reagan Man (.....................................................The Choice is Clear....... Re-elect BUSH-CHENEY)
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To: Tax Government

I agree with you on the fiat currency.


85 posted on 07/11/2004 10:25:21 PM PDT by GeronL (wketchup.com)
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To: GeronL

But they do. Every dollar they can't spend is one less dollar that doesn't go to grow the government faster. Reagan was right, government is the one thing you'll see that's an eternal life form on Earth.


86 posted on 07/11/2004 10:26:09 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: GeronL
75% tax rate?

If that ever happens under the GOP, I'm gone buddy.

And I'll be working to build a national "Conservative Party", ASAP!

87 posted on 07/11/2004 10:27:30 PM PDT by Reagan Man (.....................................................The Choice is Clear....... Re-elect BUSH-CHENEY)
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To: goldstategop

They CAN spend what they don't have. They have spent trillions that they don't have. There are no spending restraints at all, revenue is not taken into account when they write the budgets.


88 posted on 07/11/2004 10:29:07 PM PDT by GeronL (wketchup.com)
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To: Consort

No. When it comes to national elections, I would always support the Republican, not a third party. I am in no sense a "Kerry Conservative," any more than I suppose you are.

However, there needs to be a major rethinking of how this government is financed, and the health of our financial system. Both parties support, fully, a system that creates free money in violation of the constitution. This is NOT ACCEPTABLE. I don't care how many Bush-like "conservative" candidates emerge and win, unless/until this issue gets on the major political parties' radar, we are heading down a rathole as a nation.

I, for my part, DEMAND that the fiat money system get on the national political agenda. And if the Republicans don't have the stomach for it, maybe the Constitution Party has/have.


89 posted on 07/11/2004 10:29:35 PM PDT by Tax Government
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To: goldstategop

If government could not borrow money or go into any sort of debt and had to stay within their means. THEN we might have a chance...... um.. thats nothing but a dream, can't happen.


90 posted on 07/11/2004 10:30:30 PM PDT by GeronL (wketchup.com)
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To: Tax Government

The only way to really limit government spending is to limit their ability to print endless amounts of paper money.

This means going back to a gold/silver standard...honest money that can't be devalued to support whatever ridiculous spending scheme the morons in washington come up with.

If they want to spend more money, they will need to raise taxes on the people...no more stealth taxes through inflation.

http://www.gold-eagle.com has lots of awesome editorials on this subject.


91 posted on 07/11/2004 10:30:38 PM PDT by Capitalism2003 (America is too great for small dreams. - Ronald Reagan, speech to Congress. January 1, 1984.)
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To: Reagan Man

If we don't get some real conservatives in the GOP by 2008, its going to be too late.


92 posted on 07/11/2004 10:31:10 PM PDT by GeronL (wketchup.com)
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To: goldstategop
"This time I hope its stays up! GRRR! "

That's difficult with these type threads that attract all the old third party fanatics.

They can't remain civil for long and conservatives can't suffer their lack of common sense.

They don't even have a clue about political parties. They think political parties are debating societies searching for the ultimate truth. Winning elections is not part of their experience.

93 posted on 07/11/2004 10:31:25 PM PDT by bayourod (Kerry, the human downer, knows the words to "optimism" but can't quite get the tune right.)
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To: GeronL

If we weren't compelled to pay taxes no one would care. What they spend would be the equivalent of Monopoly Money. The country would be better off if that was all there is to Washington spending.


94 posted on 07/11/2004 10:32:05 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Capitalism2003

Now we both know that if taxes are raised too much it will not increase revenues. Remember the Yacht tax?


95 posted on 07/11/2004 10:32:15 PM PDT by GeronL (wketchup.com)
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To: Capitalism2003
The only way to really limit government spending is to limit their ability to print endless amounts of paper money.

Hear! Hear! A patriot! Congatulations to you. Here's wishing you success in helping raise awareness of this CRITICAL issue, here on FR and everywhere else you go.

96 posted on 07/11/2004 10:33:09 PM PDT by Tax Government
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To: GeronL
Four years is a long way off. Right now, the best ticket I see is Owens-Santorum.

What say you?

97 posted on 07/11/2004 10:33:14 PM PDT by Reagan Man (.....................................................The Choice is Clear....... Re-elect BUSH-CHENEY)
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To: goldstategop
Have you been reading up on Argentina?

I think it should default on that debt. Might be best for them.

98 posted on 07/11/2004 10:33:29 PM PDT by GeronL (wketchup.com)
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To: GeronL

But they do go into debt. Right now its the only restraint we have. Once that's gone, wait til you see how high the federal spending Niagara will gush.


99 posted on 07/11/2004 10:34:03 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Tax Government

I am a bit green (as in unexperienced, not enviro-wacko) on the fiat currency issue. I have a basic understanding, but I've heard that trying to change it would kill the economy for 100 years. Fill me in.


100 posted on 07/11/2004 10:34:12 PM PDT by RockinRight
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