Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Republican-funded Group Attacks Kerry's War Record
Annenberg Political Fact Check ^ | August 6, 2004

Posted on 08/07/2004 7:42:37 AM PDT by syriacus

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-120 next last
To: Congressman Billybob
Annenberg has a reputable name.....Someone should inform the author that he hung himself and his institution out to dry, twisting in the wind.

Yes...It would be interesting to know who wrote the article....

Just Four people are listed on the About Us page

  1. Brooks Jackson Director -- who pioneered political "fact-checking" at CNN in 1992
  2. Kathleen Hall Jamieson, Director, Annenberg  Public Policy Center
  3. Jennifer Ernst, Researcher,,"She joined the Annenberg Public Policy Center in June, 2004 with previous experience in the office of US Sen. Chuck Hagel,"
  4. Seth Goldman Researcher, "who has worked at the Committee for a Democratic Majority and at Sen. Edward M. Kennedy's campaign committee."

51 posted on 08/07/2004 8:53:20 AM PDT by syriacus (Daschle on National Missile Defense debate -- "THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE." June 8, 2001)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Atomic Vomit
The internet, books & magazines, and talk radio are what we rely upon.

We are heading that way here, too.

52 posted on 08/07/2004 8:59:32 AM PDT by syriacus (Daschle on National Missile Defense debate -- "THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE." June 8, 2001)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: syriacus

Let them know they are wrong. I guess they are suppose to be legit:

Mail:

FactCheck.org
Annenberg Public Policy Center
320 National Press Building
Washington DC 20045

===

E-Mail:

Editor@FactCheck.org
===

Telephone: (Annenberg Public Policy Center)

(202) 879-6700


53 posted on 08/07/2004 8:59:47 AM PDT by gilliam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
" . . . we see no way to resolve which of these versions of reality is closer to the truth."

Translation: 'We don't dare have this resolved, so let's just all pack it in and move on.'

54 posted on 08/07/2004 9:03:31 AM PDT by Eastbound
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: OldPossum
It certainly looks like the swift boat guys have struck a nerve since the DemocRATs seem to be all over themselves trying to discredit them.

Yes. The Democrats seem to have taken action as soon as they saw the vets might get some real attention.

55 posted on 08/07/2004 9:04:39 AM PDT by syriacus (Daschle on National Missile Defense debate -- "THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE." June 8, 2001)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
Another reason for doubt is that the group's financing is strongly partisan.

And I suppose all the shadowy "527s" financed by George Soros aren't partisan?

Get a clue Mac.

56 posted on 08/07/2004 9:07:50 AM PDT by upchuck (Words from sKerry or Actions from President Bush? You decide.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Eastbound
Translation: 'We don't dare have this resolved, so let's just all pack it in and move on.'

They didn't even bother to take a good look at Elliot's second affidavit, before the weekend.

57 posted on 08/07/2004 9:08:55 AM PDT by syriacus (Daschle on National Missile Defense debate -- "THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE." June 8, 2001)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: syriacus

I LOVE this bellyaching from THE LEFT!If George Soros funds Move On .Org to the tune if 15-20 MILLIONS to attack OUR PRESIDENT,that's perfectly OK!!Put the shoe on the other foot and they start CATERWAULING like scalded cats!!!


58 posted on 08/07/2004 9:11:42 AM PDT by bandleader
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
If I understand correctly (thanks to what I've learned on FR) Elliot was merely making clear, in his second statement, that Kerry's and Kranish's published story says Kerry shot the young man in the back.

Anti-Kerry Vietnam Veterans Hold Strong <-- Mash here, read all about it for yourself, and draw your own conclusions. Make sure you read the affadavits themselves. Also, read the Boston Globe stories. I don't have links to those, but there is no fee or registration required to read the August 6th article that provoked Elliott's second affidavit, or the Globe's CYA article of this morning.

59 posted on 08/07/2004 9:15:38 AM PDT by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: upchuck
Get a clue Mac

I agree.

I'll bet 99% of political donations are given by people with some partisan leanings.

It makes sense to think that individuals who are uninterested in politics probably contribute very little money to politically active groups.

Money is given
to
political groups
by
people interested in politics.

60 posted on 08/07/2004 9:17:35 AM PDT by syriacus (Daschle on National Missile Defense debate -- "THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE." June 8, 2001)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: syriacus

So they'll just sneak off into the sunset, half-heartedly singing the old refrain, 'This is going to backfire on the Republicans.'


61 posted on 08/07/2004 9:23:21 AM PDT by Eastbound
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt
I've read the articles and affidavits myself, except for this morning's Boston Globe article. I'll try to take a look at it now. (got a guest coming soon)

Thanks for pointing the article out.

62 posted on 08/07/2004 9:23:25 AM PDT by syriacus (Daschle on National Missile Defense debate -- "THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE." June 8, 2001)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: syriacus

It's informative to read who Liberals report a story. It's clear why the incredible incompetence of the government at times doesn't bother them because they apparently are less competent than the government on it's worst day.

This story has been in work for 30 years and the best these morons can do is this.

It is clear from the most casual observation that Kerry has embellished his record. It wouldn't be such a big deal but the ONLY reason he gives for why his is prepared to be President is the 93 days he spent in the military.

But the Press (including Fox) are too incompetent to get the facts.

Why again, would we pay for their services?


63 posted on 08/07/2004 9:29:13 AM PDT by Joe_October (Saddam supported Terrorists. Al Qaeda are Terrorists. I can't find the link.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt
I read the Globe article, Veteran claims misquote on Kerry; Globe stands by its story By Susan Milligan, Globe Staff  |  August 7, 2004 (didn't need to sign in)

Am I supposed to believe it?

64 posted on 08/07/2004 9:34:12 AM PDT by syriacus (Daschle on National Missile Defense debate -- "THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE." June 8, 2001)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
One might reasonably ask why the SwiftBoat Veterans have signed affidavits to record their statements.

Recall that one tactic adopted for handling Klinton's bimbo eruptions was to have the reported bimbo sign an affidavit to the effect that nothing happened. This gets the person clearly on the record and makes it very difficult for the person to change their story. One would expect them to sign a new affidavit contradicting their first, and naturally their credibility would be zero without a good explanation for why the first affidavit was false.

Now we have a Globe reporter interviewing someone who the reporter claims is now contradicting his affidavit. Does the reporter ask that the contradiction be sworn to and signed in the presence of a notary? No? Why not?

Now we hear that the veteran in question has signed yet another affidavit claiming that the Globe report is false.

The actions of the veteran are exactly in line with what one would expect from a person who has a story to tell and who has no fear of going on the record.

It remains for the Globe reporter to sign an affidavit concerning the interview, explaining the nature of the notes taken, if any, explaining why no recording was made, and further explaining why no attempt was made to have the veteran sign a contradictory affidavit in light of the seriousness of the charges being made.

If I was on a jury deciding whether the Globe acted with malice, I would want to know why they have treated such material in a fashion that could result in a signed contradiction of their report without proof of their own. I think that the presumption would have to go to the veteran.

65 posted on 08/07/2004 9:36:44 AM PDT by William Tell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Billie

Not only did Elliott not recant, no where in this article does it mention that Kravitz is the author of a Kerry bio and the author of the "official" Kerry campaign book. Bigtime bias. And, where is George Soros and his millions?


66 posted on 08/07/2004 9:41:41 AM PDT by The Right Stuff
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: syriacus

syriacus, I submitted the following e-mail to Annenberg:

----
Annenberg,

You need a fact check on your "fact check".

You wrote, "There is reason to doubt the ad . For one thing, one of the men who appears in it, George Elliott, told the Boston Globe he had made a "terrible mistake" by accusing Kerry of not deserving one of his awards."

Not true. In fact, shortly after the Globe article, Elliot submitted an affidavit stating the author of the Globe article misquoted him and that Elliot stands by everything in the ad.

You wrote, "None of those in the attack ad by the Swift Boat group actually served on Kerry's boat. And their statements are contrary to the accounts of Kerry and those who served under him. "

That was very misleading. Steve Gardner, one of the swift boat members who was not in the ad, served on Kerry's boat as a machine gunner. Gardner strongly disputes the circumstances surrounding at least one of Kerry's medals.

You wrote, "...medical records provided by the Kerry campaign to FactCheck.org do not list Letson as the “person administering treatment” for Kerry’s injury on December 3, 1968 . The medical officer who signed this sick call report is J.C. Carreon, who is listed as treating Kerry for shrapnel to the left arm."

Wrong again. J.C. Carreon was not a medical officer. Dr. Letson treated Kerry. Carreon, an enlisted hospital corpsman who worked with Dr. Letson at the time, most likely completed the paperwork. It was common practice for enlisted men and women in the medical field to fill out the required record entries. I did when I served in the U. S. Navy medical and dental fields.

You wrote, "A group funded by the biggest Republican campaign donor in Texas began running an attack ad Aug. 5 ...".

If you are going to try to smear the swift boat veterans by pretending this is a partisan matter, then shouldn't you provide partisan references for the staff responsible for this so-called "fact check? For example, list those on your staff who have worked for, or for the election of, democratic politicians, and list your campaign donations. Shouldn't you also mention that the Boston Globe is an extremely partisan newspaper, and the reporter that wrote the bogus Elliot article, Michael Kranish, has strong ties to Kerry, and that Kranish currently has four books published or being published on Kerry and the Kerry campaign, including a Kerry biography?

You make a big deal out of McCain, as if he is in some way relevant. Read this carefully: MCCAIN WAS NOT THERE!

To see how partisan you sound, read these three paragraphs from the swift boat vets website:

"John Kerry has been able to convince about 13 men who served on Swift boats in the Mekong Delta to support him, 7 or 8 of whom were at various times crew members on his own 6-man boat. Those are the men the Kerry campaign so prominently featured at the Democratic Convention. The photograph we have posted at SwiftVets.com shows Kerry with 19 of his fellow Swift boat OICs (Officers In Charge) in Coastal Division 11. Four OICs were not present for the photograph. Only one of his 23 fellow OICs from Coastal Division 11 supports John Kerry.

Overall, more than 250 Swift boat veterans are on the record questioning Kerry's fitness to serve as Commander-in-Chief. That list includes his entire chain of command -- every single officer Kerry served under in Vietnam. The Kerry game plan is to ignore all this and pretend that the 13 veterans his campaign jets around the country and puts up in 5-star hotels really represent the truth about his short, controversial combat tour.

The Swift boats fought in groups, so the other OICs who fought alongside Kerry know him well and can accurately describe what he did and did not do. In many cases Kerry's fellow OICs had a better perspective than his own crew members, since the latter had no way to determine whether he was following orders and how well he worked with his peers. "

Frankly, this so-called "fact check" is little more than an attack ad for John Kerry. It contains all the DNC talking points, currently being printed in similar attack ads, disguised as journalism, by left-wing "newspapers" all over the nation. You are smearing over 250 brave Vietnam veterans in an attempt to provide aid and comfort to one of the lowest scoundrels ever to seek high public office.

Shame on you.


67 posted on 08/07/2004 9:42:33 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: syriacus

did kerry serve in vietnam?


68 posted on 08/07/2004 9:43:08 AM PDT by ken21
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: syriacus

"At this point, 35 years later and half a world away, we see no way to resolve which of these versions of reality is closer to the truth." ~ AnnenbergPoliticalFactCheck


Really? Let's go over this again:

Rush: "....in Kranish's own book on page 102 he quotes Kerry as acknowledging that he killed a single, wounded, fleeing Vietcong soldier whom he was afraid would turn around -- meaning he shot him in the back!"

32 posted on 08/07/2004 9:42:18 AM EDT by Matchett-PI
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1186852/posts?page=32#32

"For my belief that he was wounded and fleeing (and was shot in the back, I rely upon many sources, including Michael Kranish's (the Boston Globe reporter) own quotation of John Kerry.... "

This is the delicious part--

The Kerry/Kranish account of the incident contributed to Elliot's understanding that the man was shot in the back.

12 posted on 08/07/2004 8:20:30 AM EDT by syriacus
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1186852/posts?page=12#12

I think the "terrible mistake" was his decision to sign the affadavit even though it contained a line he could not personally vouch for (that Kerry shot a man in the back).

No ..... look at these two sentences from Elliot's two affidavits:

1. "For example, in connection with his Silver Star, I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back."

2. "had I known the facts, I would not have recommended Kerry for the Silver Star for simply pursuing and dispatching a single, wounded, fleeing Viet Cong"

In the first he says that he hadn't been informed of the paltriness of Kerry's actions in the matter being referred to him for recommendation for the Silver Star. In the second he said that if he had known what had actually happened, he wouldn't have done it.

It's pretty clear that the mistake was signing the recommendation for Kerry's Silver Star based on limited information, not signing the first affidavit about Kerry based on limited information about that particular incident.

What Kranish did was dishonesty of the first magnitude. Not surprising, though, coming from the Boston Globe.

19 posted on 08/07/2004 8:40:53 AM EDT by aruanan
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1186852/posts?page=19#19

Michael Kranish "dowdified" George Elliott quote for his story. JustoneMinute ^ | 08/07/04 | TOM MAGUIRE
Posted on 08/07/2004 5:55:20 AM EDT by Pikamax
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1186852/posts

Kranish Is Cooked

Michael Kranish rocked us on Friday with a story, headlined "Veteran retracts criticism of Kerry", which told us that:

"a key figure in the anti-Kerry campaign, Kerry's former commanding officer, backed off one of the key contentions. Lieutenant Commander George Elliott said in an interview that he had made a ''terrible mistake" in signing an affidavit that suggests Kerry did not deserve the Silver Star -- one of the main allegations in the book.

Elliott is quoted as saying that Kerry ''lied about what occurred in Vietnam . . . for example, in connection with his Silver Star, I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back."

Get Maureen Dowd on the line - that may have been the most misleading ellipsis ever published, but since the affidavit was not public, who knew?

Subsequently, Capt. Elliot retracted his retraction, prompting some head-scratching.

Now, both the original affidavit and the re-affirmation (the retraction of the retraction) are available here. I will read it again, and you should, too, but my first reaction is that Kranish wrote a wildly deceptive and misleading story.

Let's restore the missing ellipsis, emboldening the excerpted bit:

3. When Kerry came back to the United States he lied about what ocurred in Vietnam, comparing his commanders to Lt. Calley of My Lai, comparing the American armed forces to the army of Ghengis Khan, and making similar misstatements. Kerry was also not forthright in Vietnam. For example, in connection with his Silver Star, I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back.

Hello, Mr. Reporter! When Capt. Elliot "backed of one of the key contentions", was it the My Lai complaint, or the Ghengis Khan comparison? Or was it one example preceded by "for example"?

Unbelievable. In his re-affirming affidavit, Capt. Elliot cites the same material I did to reach this conclusion - he was not informed of the facts, and "had I known the facts, I would not have recommended Kerry for the Silver Star for simply pursuing and dispatching a single, wounded, fleeing VietCong".

This, from the Globe, now looks wildly ironic:

In the ad, Elliott says, ''John Kerry has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam."

Asked to supply evidence to support that statement, the anti-Kerry group provided a copy of Elliott's affidavit. Elliott said the same affidavit had been used in the production of the book.

It is unclear whether the work contains further justification for the assertion, beyond Elliott's statement.

Oh, it is going to be pretty clear, I bet. They still need to back it up, but there will be more.

Earlier, I had guessed that the Swiftees would disappear under the headline of "Cranks can't get story straight". But if Kranish has been this irresponsible, the Swiftees will sail on as the heroes of a "Liberal media attempts to squash Veteran truth-tellers" drama.

Don't even ask me about Joe Wilson.

*

"What Elliot is saying is that he does not know if it is true that John Kerry shot a wounded Viet Cong in the back..."

Wrong.

Excerpt from the excerpt below:

"....in Kranish's own book on page 102 he quotes Kerry as acknowledging that he killed a single, wounded, fleeing Vietcong soldier whom he was afraid would turn around -- meaning he shot him in the back!"

32 posted on 08/07/2004 9:42:18 AM EDT by Matchett-PI
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1186852/posts?page=32#32

"Boston Globe 'Reporter' Paid By Kerry Demonstrates Huge See, I Told You So on Campaign Finance Reform Folly August 6, 2004" http://www.rushlimbaugh.com

Excerpt:

"The following statement from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth concerns an article appearing in [today's] Boston Globe... [Viet Vet] Captain George Elliott describes an article appearing in today’s edition of the Boston Globe by Mike Kranish as 'extremely inaccurate' and 'highly misstating' his actual views.

He reaffirms his statement in the current advertisement paid for by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Captain Elliott reaffirms his affidavit in support of that advertisement, and he reaffirms his request that the ad be played."

Essentially Captain Elliott is renouncing what is said of him in this Boston Globe Mike Kranish story.

The statement then goes on to say, "Additional documentation will follow. The article by Mr. Kranish is particularly surprising given page 102 of Mr. Kranish’s own book quoting John Kerry as acknowledging that he killed a single, wounded, fleeing Viet Cong soldier whom he was afraid would turn around."

Let's just stop there. Kranish, the author of the Boston Globe story, wrote a book on John Kerry, is his biographer, and on page 102 of that book that Kranish wrote, he quotes Kerry acknowledging that he 'killed a single, wounded, fleeing Vietcong soldier whom he was afraid would turn around.'

Yet, Kranish writes today in the Boston Globe: "Yesterday a key figure in the anti-Kerry campaign, Kerry's former commanding officer, backed off one of the key contentions. Lieutenant Commander George Elliott said in an interview that he had made a 'terrible mistake' in signing an affidavit that suggests Kerry did not deserve the Silver Star..."

"Elliott is quoted as saying that Kerry 'lied about what occurred in Vietnam . . . for example, in connection with his Silver Star, I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back.' The statement refers to an episode in which Kerry killed a Viet Cong soldier who had been carrying a rocket launcher, part of a chain of events that formed the basis of his Silver Star.

Over time, some Kerry critics have questioned whether the soldier posed a danger to Kerry's crew....

Yesterday, reached at his home, Elliott said he regretted signing the affidavit and said he still thinks Kerry deserved the Silver Star. I still don't think he shot the guy in the back,' Elliott said. 'It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words.'"

Yet in Kranish's own book on page 102 he quotes Kerry as acknowledging that he killed a single, wounded, fleeing Vietcong soldier whom he was afraid would turn around -- meaning he shot him in the back!

Who is Mike Kranish? Mike Kranish is a reporter covering the Kerry campaign for the Boston Globe. Mike Kranish is also a biographer of John Kerry, and as I just learned during our break at the top of the hour, Mike Kranish has also written the yet-to-be-released official campaign book for Kerry-Edwards. It is entitled "Kerry-Edwards."

You can get it now on Amazon. It's not available. The item has not yet been released but you can order it and they'll ship it to you when it arrives. List price, $12.95, your Amazon price, $10.36.

What does it [AMAZON] say about the author?:

"Michael Kranish has worked for the Boston Globe for more than 20 years, including the last 16 in the newspaper's Washington bureau. He is coauthor of, 'John Kerry the Complete Biography' published this year by Public Affairs." ..... [snip]

32 posted on 08/07/2004 9:42:18 AM EDT by Matchett-PI http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1186852/posts?page=32#32


69 posted on 08/07/2004 9:46:59 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
I read the Globe article [by Susan Milligan, dated August 7] Am I supposed to believe it?

Taken literally, why not? The story is somewhat incoherent, however. It does not repeat the quotations of Elliott, or provide sensible context. It may be that Elliott said he "made a terrible mistake" in signing the July 21 affidavit, by not explaining how he -now- and -still- holds the belief that Kerry shot a Viet Cong in the back. No matter, either way, says Elliott, that conduct did not merit issuing a Silver Star. The Globe does not dispute that conclusion either, you'll notice.

Likewise, the Globe merely reports the difference between Elliott's support for Kerry in 1996, including a statment that "Kerry deserved the Silver Star," and Elliott's position today, that Kerry was not forthcoming, and that if Kranish's version of events that resulted in awarding the Silver Star are correct, that he (Elliott) would not have recommended the award. That is, Elliott has changed his point of view, and has fully justified his change in position. The Globe does not dipute that, either!

What the Globe does not address is the innuendo that Elliott had backed away from his current position. For that, the Globe is shown to be untrustworthy.

70 posted on 08/07/2004 9:51:21 AM PDT by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: Ron in Acreage

What a crock of sh$$. It shows how desperate the CRATS are by trying to distort the truth. Kerry is a slug.


71 posted on 08/07/2004 10:12:19 AM PDT by Logical me (Oh, well!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
There is a simple way to see who's telling the truth. Get a copy of the Senate speech from 1986 in which Kerry elaborates on his Christmas in Cambodia. Since Nixon was not president in 1968 the whole core of everything he has ever said or positioned himself after or postured about becomes a demonstrable fraud on its face.
72 posted on 08/07/2004 11:14:59 AM PDT by Steven W.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau
Beautifully written.

It's wonderful that you took the time to do this!!

73 posted on 08/07/2004 11:24:34 AM PDT by syriacus (Daschle on National Missile Defense debate -- "THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE." June 8, 2001)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt

Nice analysis! Thanks for posting it.


74 posted on 08/07/2004 11:26:13 AM PDT by syriacus (Daschle on National Missile Defense debate -- "THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE." June 8, 2001)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: Matchett-PI
"At this point, 35 years later and half a world away, we see no way to resolve which of these versions of reality is closer to the truth." ~ AnnenbergPoliticalFactCheck

Really? Let's go over this again:

Who would hire fact-checkers who wimp-out like this?

Wanted: Wimpy fact checkers

Must persist in the search for truth
but only up to a predetermined point.
Employer will supply sourced material.
Desirable experience:
Previous work at CNN or in Kennedy election campaign

75 posted on 08/07/2004 11:56:29 AM PDT by syriacus (Daschle on National Missile Defense debate -- "THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE." June 8, 2001)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: William Tell
It remains for the Globe reporter to sign an affidavit concerning the interview, explaining the nature of the notes taken, if any, explaining why no recording was made, and further explaining why no attempt was made to have the veteran sign a contradictory affidavit in light of the seriousness of the charges being made.

Yes! That makes sense!

76 posted on 08/07/2004 12:01:01 PM PDT by syriacus (Daschle on National Missile Defense debate -- "THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE." June 8, 2001)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
Annenberg Political Fact Check ^ | August 6, 2004...Better check those facts again, Seth - on August 6th Cmdr Elliot denied that he had told the Globe what they claimed he did and stood fully by his original affidavit- but not to worry, George Soros (multi-billionaire 'rat contributor) loves you..........
77 posted on 08/07/2004 12:55:01 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Atomic Vomit

Hey, there was no need to be a smart butt, smart butt. It wasn't a catty comment. I was just saying that folks should do their research before posting something, something which I had done before I posted that comment. I knew about the affidavits, both of them. So next time don't be so quick on the quips.


78 posted on 08/07/2004 8:36:10 PM PDT by pctech
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: syriacus

Gotta love those news networks huh, start yacking about something though they know they are not telling the truth and waiting until after the weekend to admit their mistakes. They know that not as many people will be watching so they're hoping folks won't notice.


79 posted on 08/07/2004 8:37:38 PM PDT by pctech
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: pctech
Gotta love those news networks huh, start yacking about something though they know they are not telling the truth and waiting until after the weekend to admit their mistakes

"Winning" the momentary argument, by any means, seems to be the only victory they can hope for.

80 posted on 08/07/2004 9:15:26 PM PDT by syriacus (So, let's give a jeer, and 1 jeer more, for the ersatz hero of Swift 94. He IS a flipping man.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]

To: syriacus

That is the only way they can win for sure, bu tI'm thinking that they are thinking that if they get enough of them they will win this thing for Kerry.


81 posted on 08/08/2004 10:06:32 AM PDT by pctech
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
I don't think I come of as rude in this email I just sent to them. Do you?


82 posted on 08/15/2004 2:19:43 AM PDT by fuzzy122
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Conspiracy Guy
”Lying is Their Norm”

What? You couldn't embed the sound track too!

EXCELLENT

MEGA-

Stay Strong
Fuzzy

83 posted on 08/15/2004 2:25:44 AM PDT by fuzzy122
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: fuzzy122
Thanks. Here is a Dylan tune to go with it.





Lie Kerry Lie
"Lay Lady Lay"

Lie Kerry lie,
Lie out of your big long head.
Lie Kerry lie,
Lie out of your big long head.

Whatever big lies you have in your mind.
You'll tell them to us, do you think we're blind?

Lie Kerry lie,
Lie out of your big long head.
Lie Kerry lie,
Lie out of your big long head.

You burned a village, killed some civilians,
Committed war crimes, you said it was true.
Now you say you’re a hero that we all should love,
Well I tell you, we despise you.

Lie Kerry lie,
Lie out of your big long head.
Lie Kerrie lie,
Can’t believe a word you said.

Your lies are dirty,
And your, hands aren’t clean.
The biggest liar,
That we’ve, ever seen.

Lie Kerry lie,
Lie out of your big long head.
Lie Kerry lie,
Can’t believe a word you said.

Conspiracy Guy aka DIF 8/7/2004
Concept by Longfellow

84 posted on 08/15/2004 4:56:03 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Conspiracy Guy, Secretary of Humor and Tomfoolery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: fuzzy122

Thanks for writing such a great email to them. I was especially struck by your discussion of relying on the testimony of folks in a getaway car.


85 posted on 08/15/2004 5:15:02 AM PDT by syriacus (Benedict Arnold REALLY was a war hero ----- before he was a traitor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: Conspiracy Guy

Nice!! LOL.


86 posted on 08/15/2004 5:16:09 AM PDT by syriacus (Benedict Arnold REALLY was a war hero ----- before he was a traitor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: pctech
On FoxNews Watch, yesterday, Neal Gabler recommended looking at factcheck.org, for a detailed rebuttal of the Swift Vets. He implied that the web page lists the anti-Kerry witnesses, one after another, and shows the are dishonest.

Gabler is dishonest.

87 posted on 08/15/2004 5:25:13 AM PDT by syriacus (Benedict Arnold REALLY was a war hero ----- before he was a traitor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
shows the are dishonest

I should have written:
shows they are dishonest

88 posted on 08/15/2004 5:27:54 AM PDT by syriacus (Benedict Arnold REALLY was a war hero ----- before he was a traitor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
I think it important to post the entirety of Seth Goldman's letter so that we can understand what would motivate this lying weasel to undermine the reputation of the Annenberg operation in one ill-conceived hit piece. The entire letter reads:

Unfair label I find personal and professional offense at the use of the phrase "alternative lifestyles" in the Feb. 17 article "Jews Discuss Alternative Lifestyles".

First, nowhere is a member of the participating organizations cited using that phrase. In fact, journalistic norms require using the identification of the speaker and not imposing the prejudicial title of the writer. If The Hatchet was unsure of which phrase to use, it should have asked a spokesperson.

Second, the phrase violates the tenets of the official Associated Press Stylebook, which The Hatchet abides by - at least it did when I was a staff writer there two years ago. The AP states, "Avoid references to gay, homosexual or alternative 'lifestyle.'" Moreover, the AP recommends using the terms "gay" and "lesbian" and not "homosexual," which was also used in the article.

Third, and finally, the notion that my sexual orientation is merely an "alternative lifestyle" degrades the struggle I and so many lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender youth have and continue to fight. Our orientation is neither an "alternative," which incorrectly implies choosing some other option besides the heterosexual norm, nor is it a "lifestyle," as if we opt to be gay like some choose an urban or trendy lifestyle. Media coverage of LGBT issues is welcomed and appreciated. I only request that it be done with understanding and respect. -Seth Goldman, senior

89 posted on 08/15/2004 5:39:08 AM PDT by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gilliam
I was completely unaware of the existence of this organization. Seth Goldman has brought them world-wide attention and destroyed their reputation all in one ill-conceived hit-piece. The next time I see something from them I will giggle first, assume that the opposite of the headline is true and read it later. Claiming to apply standards of scholarship, they instead apply all of the doctrines of the best liberal journalistic tradition.

From the FactCheck mission statement:

Our Mission

We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit, "consumer advocate" for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics. We monitor the factual accuracy of what is said by major U.S. political players in the form of TV ads, debates, speeches, interviews, and news releases. Our goal is to apply the best practices of both journalism and scholarship, and to increase public knowledge and understanding.

The Annenberg Political Fact Check is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg in 1994 to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state, and federal levels.

90 posted on 08/15/2004 5:43:33 AM PDT by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: AndyJackson
I think it important to post the entirety of Seth Goldman's

You are right. Thanks for posting the entire letter from

Seth Goldman, PC Enforcer.
Catchy title for a TV series :-)
91 posted on 08/15/2004 5:47:44 AM PDT by syriacus (Benedict Arnold REALLY was a war hero ----- before he was a traitor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: gilliam
Folks might also contact the Annenberg foundation directly.

Headquarters Office
Radnor Financial Center
Suite A-200
150 N. Radnor-Chester Rd.
Radnor, PA 19087
ph: (610) 341-9066
fax: (610) 964-8688
info@annenbergfoundation.org Los Angeles Office
Center West
Suite 1605
10877 Wilshire Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90024
ph: (310) 209-4560
fax: (310) 209-1631

92 posted on 08/15/2004 5:48:25 AM PDT by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
A group funded by the biggest Republican campaign donor in Texas

Who is this big Republican donor that they keep alluding to?

93 posted on 08/15/2004 5:54:38 AM PDT by wai-ming
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: syriacus

One notes that instead of enganging in the scholarship that FactChecks says they will do, Seth Goldman simply relies, as footnoted documentary evidence, opinions stated in other (leftest liberal) newspapers.


94 posted on 08/15/2004 5:59:57 AM PDT by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: syriacus

Thanks


95 posted on 08/15/2004 6:13:46 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Conspiracy Guy, Secretary of Humor and Tomfoolery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

To: AndyJackson
Our Mission:
We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit, "consumer advocate" for voters

My guess is that most voters only hear it quickly mentioned by "journalists" --- as a "nonpartisan" source, of course.

FactCheck's value lies in the way that it is very easily used as a source (weapon) in an argument.

Happily for lazy and/or deceptive journalists, FactCheck is ready-to-deploy when needed.

It is sort of like a bullet in a six-shooter. Better yet...

A FactCheck document is like a packaged children's meal, that "journalists" can pick up at a drive-thru window to keep rowdy kids quiet.

Gabler isn't much of a journalist if he relies on, what amounts to, secondary sources for his facts.

It's so sad that the name Annenberg would be used in connection with a service that distorts the very truthfulness it pretends to champion.

I was unaware of FactCheck, until a replier to an old thread of mine tried to use FactCheck to refute me.

I guess the replier thought I would bow down to the FactCheck "god."

96 posted on 08/15/2004 6:37:25 AM PDT by syriacus (Benedict Arnold REALLY was a war hero ----- before he was a traitor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: AndyJackson
One notes that instead of enganging in the scholarship that FactChecks says they will do, Seth Goldman simply relies, as footnoted documentary evidence, opinions stated in other (leftest liberal) newspapers.

Yes!!

Yet, to folks like Neal Gabler, FactCheck is permitted to have the aura of a primary source.

How ironic it was yesterday, that Neal Gabler and the others on FoxNewsWatch were discussing whether celebrities really had the credentials to be journalists.

Jane Hall said that she's gotten her credentials. She said she went to Columbia U School of Journalism.

Yet, on the same show, in face of all the evidence to the contrary, Hall showed she was entirely willing to swallow the Boston Globe account that Elliot recanted his testimony.

97 posted on 08/15/2004 7:02:20 AM PDT by syriacus (Benedict Arnold REALLY was a war hero ----- before he was a traitor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies]

To: wai-ming
Who is this big Republican donor that they keep alluding to?

He is a home builder in Texas. When the news conference earlier this year was a bust the Swift Vets asked for donations. He donated.

Now the Swift Vets are getting donations from all over the country, so they are no longer being funded primarily by this guy.

98 posted on 08/15/2004 7:05:46 AM PDT by gilliam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
Seth Goldman
Researcher, Annenberg Political Fact Check

Seth Goldman earned his B.A. in political communication at George Washington University. He joined the Annenberg Public Policy Center in June, 2004 with previous experience as journalist, press relations assistant, and media researcher. He has worked at the Committee for a Democratic Majority and at Sen. Edward M. Kennedy's campaign committee. At GWU he founded and edited Sticks & Stones,   an independent, student-run progressive newsmagazine.

99 posted on 08/15/2004 7:07:16 AM PDT by Nick Danger ("Let them eat ketchup!" says TaRAYzuh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
The commentary on FactCheck is, at best, a secondary source

In no scholaraly work would an opinion stated in a newspaper be accepted as even a legitimate secondary source in evidence of any fact, especially an opinion stated as a rebutal to a primary source - a sworn statement by an eyewitness to the events. This is not scholarship; it is liberal journalism at its best [worst].

100 posted on 08/15/2004 7:18:36 AM PDT by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 97 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-120 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson