Skip to comments.Kerry - Pardoned by Carter in 1977? - Research<p>
Posted on 09/05/2004 7:29:43 AM PDT by Tacis
The record is puzzling. Why would Kerry claim hero status and then refuse to allow us to see his record and allow every reader to confirm his claims? Why, even in war time, does Kerry service in the USNR appear to stretch from 1966 to 1978, 12 years? How does one explain the strange irregularities (multiple citations for his Silver Star) and inconsistencies in the Kerry military records that are available? Why does the 6 year (plus six month?) USNR obligation begun by Kerry in 2/66 appear to end in 1/70 again, in time of war, even though available records seem to indicate that the terminal date of his reserve obligation was 17 Feb 1972? Why are the documents that should be available, not there? The answers to all these question may be linked and surprisingly obvious. My thesis would be very easy to disprove (if it is false) by simply releasing Kerrys entire military record.
Even if you include a lot of puffery and self-promotion, Kerrys in-country record in late 1968 and early 1969 was exceptional and one to be admired and honored. But, for reasons we do not yet understand, in roughly late 1969, Kerry turned bad.
In late 1969, Kerry asked for an early release from active dutyeven though he had re-upped to serve on active duty until August, 1970. He said he wished to enter the democrat party primary, held in September, 1970 in Massachusetts, to be a candidate for Congress for the Third District. He was detached from active duty effective 4:00 PM, 2 January 1970 and specifically reminded the he assumed ... The status of a member of the Naval Reserve on inactive duty.
The paper trail of available Navy records disappears for almost 8 years. In March, 1970, Kerry drops out of the Congressional primary in favor of the notorious Father Drinan, Dean of Boston College Law School (where Kerry later attended law school, 1973-1976). From early, 1970 through the Summer of 1973, Kerry takes part in activities involving war protests, meeting in Paris with Viet Cong representatives and the leadership of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. These activities, some of which may have been legal, were of very questionable patriotism for an honest citizen of the US but certainly inappropriate for a US Naval officer.
Thats pretty much fact. Now, the thesis that explains the rest of the mysteries. I believe that Kerry was court martialed in the early 70s or otherwise terminated from the USNR under conditions other than honorable. Whatever actually happened represented a stain on Kerrys record that might not have been taken lightly even by voters in Massachusetts.
Then, on January 21,1977, Democrat President Jimmy Carter (POTUS - January 20,1977 - January 20,1981) gave a blanket pardon, in Proclamation 4483, to certain offenders as follows:
Acting pursuant to the grant of authority in Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution of the United States, I, Jimmy Carter, President of the United States, do hereby grant a full, complete and unconditional pardon to: (1) all persons who may have committed any offense between August 4, 1964 and March 28, 1973 in violation of the Military Selective Service Act or any rule or regulation promulgated thereunder; and (2) all persons heretofore convicted, irrespective of the date of conviction, of any offense committed between August 4, 1964 and March 28, 1973 in violation of the Military Selective Service Act, or any rule or regulation promulgated thereunder, restoring to them full political, civil and other rights.
Thus, if my thesis is correct, Kerrys offense must have occurred between 2 January 1970 and March 28, 1973. My thesis suggests that during 1977, Kerry made application for full pardon under the administrative procedures promulgated by the Office of the Pardon Attorney, Department of Justice. He almost certainly sought and received the support of Massachusetts Senator Kennedy who had much clout in the Carter administration. Kennedy may have been responsible for suggesting that the records of such a fine young man be embellished by Citations from the Secretary of the Navy, rather than a mere admiral, and in other details not yet known.
In my hypothesis, Kerrys request for full pardon was granted. Kerry applied for his military records to be corrected accordingly, and applied for an honorable discharge. The Secretary of the Navy wrote to Kerry on Feb 16 1978, enclosing an Honorable Discharge Certificate and stating:
This action is taken in accordance with the approved recommendations of a board of officers convened ... to examine the official records of officers of the Naval Reserve on inactive duty and determine whether they should be retained on the rolls of the Reserve Component or separated from the naval service pursuant to Secretarial instructions promulgated in reference [c].
The reference, [c],is to BUPERSMAN 3830300. A Google search did not provide any information regarding the text of this provision. But, this might explain why he was discharged 12 long years after enlistment.
This hypothesis explains the inconsistencies in Kerrys record and makes it clear why he acts like a three card Monte dealer in insisting that we watch his time in Nam very carefully and not pay attention to what happened afterward. It is exactly the position Benedict Arnold took with respect to what happened at West Point and afterward.
Proofs? Well, no. Certainly, the official USNR file on Kerry would quickly prove or disprove my thesis. Kerry refuses to sign a Standard Form 180 authorizing the Navy to release it, suggesting that Kerry has much more to lose by showing his records than by continuing to conceal material information. Kennedy? Not likely that his office would say anything that might negatively effect Kerry even though it might be in the nations best interest. It is, after all, Kennedy. The US Navy? It is unlikely that the Navy would, of its own volition, risk alienating a sitting US Senator and a man who might be the next CinC. Kerrys first wife, Julia Thorne, who went to Paris with Kerry when he met with the Viet Cong, and her brother, David H. Thorne, certainly might be able to add facts but, would the old timey, ultra-left wing, liberal media even ask them?
But, there is a another possibility. Many aspects of the Presidential Pardon/Clemency process are matters of public record, in the Department of Justice. If Jimmy Carter pardoned Kerry, there should be a public record that Kerry shouldnt be able to conceal. An applicant appears to be told in the application process:
"A record of each Certificate of Pardon will be maintained in the Office of the Pardon Attorney as an official record, together with your application form and any other documents compiled in the course of processing your request. The Pardon Attorney may disclose the contents of such files to anyone when the disclosure is required by law or the ends of justice. In particular, public record documents that may be compiled in the course of processing an application, such as the judgment order from the criminal case for which pardon is sought, trial or sentencing transcripts, court opinions, and newspaper articles, are generally made available upon request by third-parties (including representatives of the news media) pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, unless such disclosure could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of the petitioner's personal privacy. In addition, unsolicited Congressional correspondence is treated in the same manner. On the other hand, non-public documents that may be compiled in the course of processing an application, such as the application form itself, are not generally available under the Freedom of Information Act."
The DoJ procedures indicate:
"Publicly available information for which a FOIA request is not required:
Publicly available information: Executive clemency statistics from the administration of President McKinley to the present; rules governing the pardon attorney and petitions for executive clemency published at 28 C.F.R. §§ 0.35-36 and § 1.1 et seq.; forms for applying for executive clemency; publication: Civil Disabilities of Convicted Felons: A State-by-State Survey (October 1996); copies of clemency warrants and proclamations for persons who have been granted executive clemency; description of clemency procedures contained in United States Attorney's Manual at § 1-2.110 et seq.; whether an individual has applied for executive clemency and action on such application."
Thus, I would urge any individual or member of the media with an interest in learning the truth about Kerrys total military record to contact/visit the Office of the Pardon Attorney, Department of Justice and inquire whether there are any records for John Forbes Kerry. Check variations of Kerrys name (intentional misfiling?), things like John Kerry Forbes. Kerrys Social Security Number appears to be shown, unredacted, on a 17 Dec 1970 document in his file but his Military ID number is not known. Finally, dont limit inquiries to actions under Proclamation 4483, President Carter may have taken some clemency action because key party members may have required him to. Finally, From a reading of the above, it appears that certain information should be available on a walk in basis and other information must be requested via FOIA application.
"The offices of record are :
Samuel T. Morison, Attorney Advisor Office of the Pardon Attorney 4th Floor, 500 First Street, N.W. Department of Justice Washington, DC 20530-0001 (202) 616-6070
Conventional Reading Room:
United States Department of Justice Office of the Pardon Attorney 4th Floor, 500 First Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20530"
Several observations: It is indeed unfortunate that a man who would be President, so distrusts the American public and his own background that he hides material information in his military records in the hope of hornswoggling the electorate, of tricking us into believing he is one thing when, in fact, he may be another. Second, the above process should have long ago been followed by the media. It is also unfortunate that most of the traditional media are far too interested in electing Kerry to bother with doing any fact finding or reporting of information that might dissuade the electorate or present the truth.
Proof? Again, no, no proof, but as long as Kerry in his arrogance, refuses to trust Americans, we have the right to make assumptions about his dishonesty, mendacity and refusal to be candid and to assume that he uses similar duplicity with respect to other matters, as well. The above represents my current best guess about why Kerry is being dishonest and what he is hiding.
And, if you have the text of BUPERSMAN 3830300, please shout out and share.
Note that Monday, 9/6/04 is a holiday and DoJ offices should be closed to the public.
You may have it,,good job
No one has the right to question John F-ing Kerry.
We're going to find out because from what I read the Pentagon is going to investigate.
Hammer hitting nail on head!
BTTT - a good read that really makes more sense than much I have seen recently.
Off topic: I've heard Kerry say he served TWO tours of duty. Is this true? If so, then he served more than the four months in VN, right? Kerry is so confusing!
pursue this and get back to us........if true this would end his senaate career as well.
- kerry's first tour was on a big ship way out to sea, since the North Vietnam had no navy, he was quite safe.
Secondly, I do not believe the pardon of such a court martial could have been covered under Carter's pardon because it would have had nothing to do with the MIlitray selective service act or any violations pertaining thereto.
Now, Kerry should have been court martialed and tried for treason. He aided and abetted the enemy, illegaly consulting with/negotiating with their representatives as they negotiated peace in Paris. He also, in his work woith the anti-war movement was a part of meetings where the killing of American politicians were discussed. To my knowledge he never reported those discussions.
All of this while he was in the naval reserve. He should be brought up on charges today for those crimes IMHO.
But it's just my opinion.
I think that Carter's blanket pardons pertaining to "selective Service" laws are not likely pertinent to any secrets kerry is hiding.....but "other" proceedings of a different nature could also have been held and then "pardoned" by Carter outside the Selective Service pardons.
I just don't believe that he violated the Selective Service law.....he was on active duty continuously for way more than 3 years.
A meeting where fellow radicals discussed murdering US senators is more than inappropriate. It is sedition.
Since Kerry is now being investigated by the Dept of The Navy, little bits and pieces surface, such as Kerry being courtmartialed in the early 70's by the Navy. His Protests, and three meetings with the enemy in Paris was done by him WHILE being in the Navy Reserve, an offense in the Military which is court martial. Interesting to see, what the investigation will bring...more than we ever wanted to know, and it will be ugly.
What if he did these things, is there a statute of limitations on prosecuting this? He might have gone for the pardon to prevent this from occurring. He might have wanted a dishonorable discharge changed so he could play the war hero. Who knows, he is scum.
Kerry titles his book "Tour of Duty" for his service in Vietnam. He also claims that he had TWO tours of duty in Vietnam (because of his time on the USS Gridley).
John Kerry was in Vietnam (for 4 months) and yes he was on the deep-water coast of Vietnam on the USS Gridley (for a few weeks), but he did not serve a tour in Vietnam.
A Tour in the Nam was 12 months, one year, 365 days, one trip around the sun. Guys would count down the days until their time was up. It was a big deal. When you only had a few weeks to go until your 12 months was up, you were "SHORT", going home soon. When you broke 100 days you were a Double Digit. A Single Digit Vet (less than 10 days to go) could be found in his hooch packing.
This issue is important for this reason. John Kerry knows that he didn't serve a Tour, let alone TWO Tours, in Vietnam yet he brazenly reports that he did.
One might argue 'Well, the time that Kerry spent in Nam was HIS tour, so what is the big deal"?
If that is your argument then Kerry should have named his book "My Time in Nam" or something. Not give the impression that he spent a tour in Nam. AND, there is NO excuse for his claim for TWO TOURS in Nam. It is John Kerry spinning the truth to make himself something that he is not.
As far as Unfit for Command is concerned, I have read it. The Swifties could care less if John Kerry got medals, their issue is the same as what I explained above (and the fact that Kerry smeared their good name with his lies) and that is that Kerry diverts from the truth to make himself into something that he is not so much, that he cannot be trusted.
Kerry embellished his After Action Reports to get medals that he didnt deserve. He fabricated accusations when he came back from Vietnam when he spoke before the Senate Intelligence Committee when he said that his fellow Vietnam Veterans committed atrocities. He has never provided any proof that his accusations were true, and in fact now admits that his accusations were over the top. Over the top? They were untrue! And his falsifications harmed POWs, their families, and Vietnam Veterans in general.
POWs who were in North Vietnam prison camps when Kerry was telling his fabricated stories to the Senate and the American public to bolster his political ambitions were tortured and threatened to be placed on trial as War Criminals. POWs were told by their captors You will never go home because of Kerrys fabrications. Kerrys untrue accusations are unforgivable.
General Vo Nguyen Gaip , the Commanding officer of the North Vietnamese Military and Bui Tin who served on the General Staff of the North Vietnam Army and received the unconditional surrender of South Vietnam on April 30, 1975 both claim that North Vietnam was poised to negotiate a surrender because of the Communists military failures during the 1968 Tet Offensive and thereafter. But because of the Anti-War movement in America (led by Jane Fonda and John Kerry) they felt that the Demonstrations gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses."
America was kicking the Communists butt in every battle. General Westmoreland had the Communists number and was winning the war. Americas pullout of Vietnam was due to Kerry and his group of Demonstrators. Kerrys ant-war activities played a very significant part in causing America to lose the war in Vietnam.
Because of John Kerry and others like him there are more names on the Vietnam Memorial in Washington D. C. than there otherwise would have been. There was also the slaughter of 3.5 million South Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians when America pulled out that is significantly attributable to John Kerry and his now admittedly over the top accusations. John Kerry has blood dripping from his untrue accusations.
When I returned home to Los Angeles from Vietnam in 1971 my head was spinning as I walked through the Terminal at LAX, thinking about the culture of war that I had just left while looking around at the opulence in America. When I stepped outside onto the sidewalk a group of Longhairs walked by and one of them spat on me while the others called me a Baby Killer. I feel that the treatment that I received, and have lived with for the past 33 years, was due to John Kerry and his lies.
John Kerry does not have the moral integrity, honesty, or judgment to be the Commander-In-Chief of the worlds most powerful military. John Kerry IS, unfit for command.
Mekong Delta 1970-1971
very interesting ping.......
You are right about kerry.
Thank you for serving your country in Vietnam. You were then and are now one of my heroes. Not all of America felt that way then or do now; I am one of them.
> I've heard Kerry say he served TWO tours of duty.
That can only be literally true if Kerry was a tourist.
He put in only one full "tour", and that was not "in"
A short tour was one full year. He only served for
4 months in Vietnam on PCFs.
His time on the USS Gridley might have been a full
year, but it was only ever briefly off the coast of VN.
Now if Kerry is refering to his service to North Vietnam,
then yes, he probably gave them a full year of anti-war
"Tour of Duty"
The fictions begin with the title.
However, using this twisted logic, anyone who went on a SpecOp or served any temporary duty in VN could claim they served more than one tour in VN. Heck, if sKerry twists this enough, since he was assigned to 3 different swift boats, he can also claim that he served 4 tours in VN!
Wouldn't it be interesting if PEANUT was involved in this mess.
hubby was vet from that war. Got three years of stipend for education on GI bill,,,suspect Kerry got the same for law school.
Regarding Kerry's "two" tours. The first was on the USS Gridley, of which only five weeks was spent anywhere near Vietnam, on aircraft gaurd duty. The remainder was spent off the west coast of the US and in a transit from there to Australia and back.
His second tour, on the Swifts, was four months, of which the first full month was spent at Cam Ranh Bay, in the safety and comfort of a former French resort while he went through training.
As to his "volunteering" for combat, that's a distortion as well. He first applied for a student deferrment to study in, of all places, Paris. He was refused. So, he volunteered for the Navy, with less prospects for combat duty in-country. After his year on the Gridley, he volunteered for the swift boats. However, at that time, the Swifts were coastal patrol craft that hardly ever saw combat. Right after he joined, they were ordered into the rivers, the dangerous duty with which they made their mark on naval history. Kerry is reported to have complained bitterly at the change.
Thanks, that is great, and very interesting.
Kerry violated much more serious laws when he met secretly with the North Vietnamese while he was still on active reserve duty status. He should be hung or shot for treason to the United States.
But, as regards:
He might have gone for the pardon to prevent this from occurring
I do not believe he could have gotten any kind of pardon under Carter's pardon. Those pardons were for violations of the Army Selective Service Act...Kerry's crimes had nothing to do with that.
Thanks for the ping, SLB. Hammer on the head of a nail, alright!
The Purple Hearts and the medals are just annoyances to them but the anti-war activity hurt them.
It seems as if he was discharged in 1978.
Why the additional six years?
Based only on what's seen here, it looks like he signed up for another six years. Probably in the Active Reserve, which he promptly ignored. He came from a prominent blueblood family. He may not have a desertion behind him (as they accuse W of having), but he may have had to get his service record "touched up" for those missing years, which is why they're off-limits to us.
It also means he was still a commissioned officer while he was hob-nobbing with the North Vietnamese.
Yes, indeed. Why the additional six years?
That'll take years . . .
Check out the John F. Kerry Timeline. Email it to your friends.
Thanks. kerry is hiding something when he refuses to sign a release form for all his documents though. Never having been in the military I will have to trust those who have and know far more then me to sort this out. Doesn't change my vote either way, mine was promised to Bush long ago.
He was just waiting for a democrat to pardon his war crimes.
If he admits to being an informer, the anti-war crowd will turn on him. He can't afford to do that. Personally, I don't think he was an informer -- that would have required intelligence on his part.
It was thirteen (13) months for Marines!
You are on to something
No, he wound need to correct the record and the left would dump him.
I don't think him being an informant is the case however.
It's the Naval Bureau of Personnel Manual, probably 3830.300.
I'm still searching for the directive, its a bit elusive.
The swift boat vets are for real and they don't care and will not be deterred by what either political party has to say about their efforts. This is about things much more important than politics.
I believe Kerry's complete military records would reveal just how badly he pushed for his own medals and embelished things (lied) to get them. It would also reveal that he was still a naval officer when he colluded with the anti-war people and our enemies in Paris...a very BIG no-no, but thst just my opinion.
Either way, he's toast and should have been burnt badly long ago IMHO.
If ugly doesn't begin to describe what Kerry's sealed military records are hiding, and if the Naval investigation leaks at all...which it will, of course...Kerry will resign from the ticket. Perhaps RAT honchos are already demanding answers from Kerry in private on this subject. If so, no wonder TerAysa was hauled off by ambulance to the nearest hospital the other day. She's in total meltdown at the thought of what she married, (the humiliation of it all!), and Kerry is busy blaming his staff! Nothing can save him.
If events play out as common sense dictates, then Kerry will lose his meal ticket, too. TerAYsa will walk.