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CBS' “new” Bush guard memos a hoax (Update w/ conclusive proof of forgeries!)
ChronicallyBiased - keeping tabs on the Houston Chronicle ^ | 9/9

Posted on 09/09/2004 3:47:33 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist

(scroll down to the bottom of the article for the update section):

UPDATE: NEW PROOF OF FORGERY

Following the Little Green Footballs blog lead, CB decided to test the pantograph replication technique on another of the CBS documents to see if it held true. Using Microsoft Word on its factory default settings with 12 point Times New Roman font we copied the address line of CBS memo #1 and overlapped the two for comparison.

As you can see the test worked and, in doing so, inadvertantly uncovered more proof that the document is a forgery. The new evidence revolves around the fact that Microsoft Word auto-formats its text using the centering function. When the text alignment for “center” is selected each subsequent line will be precisely centered underneath the previous one with each word of the text readjusting to meet this alignment as new letters are entered into the line. Since typewriters mechanically stamp letters onto a sheet of paper one at a time, it is physically impossible to create a mechanical typewriter document that perfectly aligns two or more centered rows of text on top of each other. The address bar on CBS Memo #1 is perfectly centered and perfectly aligned, thus it had to have come from a computer word processor and not a typewriter. The replication experiment in Microsoft Word with an identical match further validates this origin.


TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: 2004electionbias; 60minutes; 60minuts; barnes; benbarnes; brownshirtsforkerry; bush; bushmemos; cbsmemos; ccrm; danrather; democratslie; dirtytricks; dncliars; forged; forgeries; forgery; fraud; goebbelswouldbeproud; hoax; hoaxmemos; kerrycampaign; killian; libel; lyingliars; mediabias; nationalguard; ratherbiased; rattricks; seebsnews; slander; smearcampaign; snopes; snopesmia; stephenfhayes; texasnationalguard; thebiglie
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To: Jorge
How could somebody be so stupid as to even attempt to pass something like this off?

You gotta wonder. Then again, how could somebody be so stupid as to vote for John Kerry? We see examples of the latter every day, and therein you find the answer to the former.

51 posted on 09/09/2004 4:04:57 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist ("Can Lincoln expect to subjugate a people thus resolved? No!" - Sam Houston, 3/1863)
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To: ScottFromSpokane

Not likely, since the improbability drive was replaced by Bistromathics. Plus, the sum of the improbabilities of Old Media actually being unbiased and truthful exceeds infinity minus 1.


52 posted on 09/09/2004 4:05:13 PM PDT by You Dirty Rats (WE WILL WIN WITH W - Isara)
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To: GOPcapitalist

Game, Set and Match. This is going to backfire soooo badly on both the MSM and Kerry. Idiots all.


53 posted on 09/09/2004 4:05:18 PM PDT by bootyist-monk (<--------------------- Republican Attack Machine)
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To: RightField
sheesh ...

"On other thing" = One other thing

54 posted on 09/09/2004 4:05:20 PM PDT by RightField (The older you get ... the older "old" is !)
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To: alnick

In all fairness, back in the stone ages we used to center on mechanical typewriters all the time. It's just that the typist did the math rather than having the computer figure it out. :-)

That's exactly true, and if it wasn't necessary, I didn't do it.
I'm like everyone else here on FreeRepublic, hung up on this exciting bit of news. Sure hope this evidence sticks.


55 posted on 09/09/2004 4:06:25 PM PDT by Auntie Toots
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To: GOPcapitalist

While skeptical at first about the forgery issue, I'm now convinced. I didn't even think about the centering. It's so commonplace to use centered paragraphs these days that you don't even notice it. Apparently, neither did the forgers.

CBS News AKA Weekly World News.


56 posted on 09/09/2004 4:06:48 PM PDT by mikegi
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To: Steven W.

"60 Minutes should be canned and Dan Rather FIRED immediately. Then SwiftVets get 1 hour for every week until the election."

The punishment should fit he crime.

Abuse of the first amendment to defraud the electorate is criminal.

All CBS hat aired his deception affiliates should have very stiff FCC fines imposed. Individuals in the decision chain to produce and air this document should face criminal charges.



57 posted on 09/09/2004 4:06:59 PM PDT by doblin
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To: alnick
In all fairness, back in the stone ages we used to center on mechanical typewriters all the time. It's just that the typist did the math rather than having the computer figure it out. :-)

I recall doing that, but I also remeber it worked out if you had an even number of letters in the line but not for an odd number of letters.

58 posted on 09/09/2004 4:07:34 PM PDT by FairWitness
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To: TheBattman
You just go to the center (you measured it), then backspace once for every two characters or spaces....

I tried this. I counted 34 characters in the line
111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron

That puts the center between characters 17 and 18, if monospaced. ("t" and "e")
Then I counted 14 characters in the line
P.O. Box 34567

That puts the center between characters 7 and 8 ("o" and "x").

Draw a line between "t" and "e" on the first line, and between "o" and "x" on the second. The lines don't meet.

59 posted on 09/09/2004 4:08:03 PM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: GOPcapitalist

Bookmarked for later


60 posted on 09/09/2004 4:08:25 PM PDT by Federalist_In_Michigan (History teaches that wars begin when governments believe the price of aggression is cheap. -RWR)
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Comment #61 Removed by Moderator

To: alnick

The Kerry/Edwards Campaign aka Portrait of a Train Wreck...


62 posted on 09/09/2004 4:09:02 PM PDT by Lurking2Long
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To: GOPcapitalist
John Kerry might have been a master with a typewriter in Vietnam making fake documents but CBS got FU**ED!!!
63 posted on 09/09/2004 4:09:31 PM PDT by FesterUSMC
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To: Republic
Would you be willing to post a detailed uptake on the discussion on Brit's panel? Thanks. (Gave up our cable a few months back!)

Well, I was reading this thread, listening to Mark Levin, and watching the Round Table all at once, so I'll give you what I can from memory, for what it's worth.

Britt pointed out that one of his producers did a test by producing the same text with Word and superimposed it, with the results being identical to the original.

Mort mentioned that while the superscript was in one or some of the documents, at least one had the regular sized "th," so he concluded that that one document might be authentic.

Fred immediately pointed out that while it's true that the "th" was not in superscript on that document, there was an unusual space inserted between the numbers and the "th," which would be the only way to prevent the "th" from automatically switching to superscript.

Britt jumped in to clarify, asking Fred if what he meant is that the software will autmoatically convert the "th" to superscript if it is typed in immediately following a number without a space, which Fred agreed with.

Fred seemed very forceful in his belief that the documents are not authentic.

Brit did mention that Killian's son stated that he thinks that there is a mixture of truth and fiction to what the documents state. I don't think Brit elaborated on that. Killian's son said he does not believe that his father would have had documents like those in his personal files.

Brit asked the panel if they think the National Guard issue is basically a non issue, which everyone on the panel, except for Jeff Birnbaum agreed with. Birnbaum said that he finds it interesting that the National Guard issue could blow back to hurt KERRY's campaign if it's proven that these documents are faked; otherwise he dosen't think the NG issue hurts Bush.

64 posted on 09/09/2004 4:09:55 PM PDT by alnick (US forces armed with what? Spitballs??)
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To: Ronin

Tom Harkins rushed to the media.......and made a fool out of himself again. What is wrong with those people out there that they keep re-electing this embarrassment to the U.S. Senate!!!??


65 posted on 09/09/2004 4:10:55 PM PDT by Winfield (sham)
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To: YOUGOTIT
No Ltc would have written a military rank abbreviation as 1st Lt. The proper military abbreviation I have been told, for the Air Force was lLt.

Actually "1st Lt" is the correct abbreviation. It is the Army that uses "1LT."

That doesn't mean the documents are genuine. The correct abbreviation for lieutenant colonel is "Lt Col" (no periods), not "Lt. Colonel." And the 147th Fighter Interceptor Group is "147 FIG."

The documents have serious, serious problems.

66 posted on 09/09/2004 4:11:07 PM PDT by JCEccles
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To: Republic

Oh, I meant to add it seems obvious to me that the panel on the Round Table were Freeping today. :oD


67 posted on 09/09/2004 4:12:00 PM PDT by alnick (US forces armed with what? Spitballs??)
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To: Izzy Dunne

Great details work!!!

Furthermore, if you draw a line striaght down, the "o" would be dissected by the line.


68 posted on 09/09/2004 4:12:12 PM PDT by Bryan24
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To: TheBattman; Howlin; Congressman Billybob
Yeah right.

You're going to EXACTLY CENTER the top line (in proportional font in Capital letters on a very expensive typesetting machine of a memo you're writing to yourself that nobody else will ever see!) and then you're going to "carriage return" and go to the second line of that memo, EXACTLY CENTER IT and then backspace up the EXACT NUMBER of "points" (calculating those "points" in your proportional fonts (before there were calculators even!) to start the second line, then "carefully" space the entire second line to EXACTLY CENTER IT below the first, then carriage return to the third line of your header, and count the letters in the third line of your header, and c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y calculate the starting points in "points" for the third line to EXACTLY MATCH the center of the first and second lines, and EXACTLY back up to the EXACCT place to start typing the third line of your "header"
69 posted on 09/09/2004 4:12:18 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Kerry's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: alnick
In all fairness, back in the stone ages we used to center on mechanical typewriters all the time. It's just that the typist did the math rather than having the computer figure it out. :-)

Right you are. I was a technical editor and our typists did that routinely. Don't think anyone that skilled on mechanical typewriters is still on the job. Also, there were devices called Varitypers in which perforated tape was coded by the operator to accomplish centering and varied spacing (common until early '70s)). If these docs were forged it undoubtedly was through the anachronistic (to 1972) and unbiquitous MS Word or WordPerfect programs, whose inherent advances would be manifestly obvious in the forged documents. This must be investigated. But by whom? If forgery and a change of content did take place, would it have violated any law?

70 posted on 09/09/2004 4:12:22 PM PDT by luvbach1 (President Bush is conservative only when compared with the commies allied against him.)
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To: GOPcapitalist

ABCCBSNBCCNNMSNBC ARE ALL LIARS....NOT JOURNALISTS

They are simply propaganda platforms for the 3rd Way-Marxists.....and their newest proxies
muslim terrorists....

imo


71 posted on 09/09/2004 4:12:28 PM PDT by joesnuffy (Two Heads Are Better Than One...Unless They're On The Same Person -Andy Sipowicz)
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To: The Duke

The reason the Th is not superscripted is because a space was plaaced after 111 and befor the Th was typed.


72 posted on 09/09/2004 4:13:12 PM PDT by moodymare
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To: FairWitness

An odd number of 'picas' only needs one tiny pica to make it an even number. On a proportional typewriter, that one pica can be easily placed unnoticeably between two words. Old repro typists knew which letters were better at masking such practices. People don't even notice now, but the only way that any text is right-hand justified is by adding or subtracting spaces between words.


73 posted on 09/09/2004 4:13:12 PM PDT by RightField (The older you get ... the older "old" is !)
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To: FairWitness
I recall doing that, but I also remeber it worked out if you had an even number of letters in the line but not for an odd number of letters.

That's right, and one of the lines in the above example had an odd number of spaces. Also, it just occurred to me that with a proportional font, the little trick we used to use to center a line becomes much, much more complicated.

74 posted on 09/09/2004 4:13:35 PM PDT by alnick (US forces armed with what? Spitballs??)
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To: Izzy Dunne

Right!

See what I wrote in nbr 69.


75 posted on 09/09/2004 4:13:39 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Kerry's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: RightField
It is hot too difficult to manually center lines using an old proportional typewriter. As a typist, you would know the pica or width value of each letter. A lower-case 'm' for instance, might be worth 5, while a lower-case 't' might be worth 2. As I recall, the widest of all letters on the old IBM Executives was 7 (upper case W). Then it's just a matter of totalling the value of each letter, adding an average of 3 picas between each word, dividing by 2, finding the center point, backspacing the required number of units, and then typing the line. The typist had the freedom to add or subtract units between words (or even units between letters in a word) so as to make an individual line or word come out "right." I have done this exercise hundreds, if not thousands, of times, in my old life as a "repro" typist in the 1970's.

I agree that it's possible. But what is the point? This was military records, not a sales brochure. The appearance should not have been a paramount concern. As I understand it, there is plenty of other evidence that it wasn't (spaces missing after commas and parentheses). More basic typing rules were disregarded, but centering to the nearest pica was followed?
I doubt it.

Are there other documents from this same unit in the same time period?
Do they show the same attention to detail?

76 posted on 09/09/2004 4:13:44 PM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: alnick
In all fairness, back in the stone ages we used to center on mechanical typewriters all the time. It's just that the typist did the math rather than having the computer figure it out. :-)

Yep. Count the letters, divide by two, find your center mark and backspace. Been there, done that. And damn the line with an odd number of letters...

77 posted on 09/09/2004 4:13:52 PM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Official RKBA Landscaper and Arborist, Duchess of Green Leafy Things)
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To: alnick

>>>> It's just that the typist did the math rather than having the computer figure it out. :-)

That would be a heck of a lot of math for what purport to be personal memos!!!!


78 posted on 09/09/2004 4:14:01 PM PDT by dubyain04jebin08and12
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To: narby
Yes, that was certianly easy to do, IF YOU DON'T USE PURPORTIONAL TYPE!

Great point, which escaped me when I made my initial comment about centering.

79 posted on 09/09/2004 4:14:30 PM PDT by alnick (US forces armed with what? Spitballs??)
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To: VadeRetro
But when I called Dan Rather...

I know you did just that because Dan does answer his phone.

80 posted on 09/09/2004 4:14:55 PM PDT by luvbach1 (President Bush is conservative only when compared with the commies allied against him.)
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To: 2nd amendment mama
Now I'm showing my age.

You're showing mine too. A really GOOD typist could eyeball it and get it centered. :-)

81 posted on 09/09/2004 4:14:57 PM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Official RKBA Landscaper and Arborist, Duchess of Green Leafy Things)
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To: Izzy Dunne
Brit Hume just covered something similar to this on Fox News Channnel. He showed the centered address on a document and the focused on the superscripted "th" in 87th Air something or other. The point he brought up is that the "th" was not only superscripted, it was tiny, the letter spacing was narrow, and that it matched perfectly the way Microsoft Word's Times New Roman font handles superscripting "th" after a number. He also said that no typewriter from that period could do that. He said that one of his producers typed the memo into Microsoft Word using the default spacing, margins, font, etc. and it came out spaced exactly the same as the letter.
82 posted on 09/09/2004 4:15:28 PM PDT by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: dfwgator

Another case of "rope a dope" or Arkancide. I have visions of Wile E. Coyote opening up his package of forged documents from Acme and they explode in his face. Beep Beep


83 posted on 09/09/2004 4:15:34 PM PDT by toomanygrasshoppers ("Hold on to your hats.....it's going to be a bumpy night")
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To: GOPcapitalist

It is one thing to have a national press that overlooks (spikes) stories unflattering to their agenda. It is another thing entirely when they start manufacturing news to suit their agenda.

The "Mainstream Press" and CBS in particular has crossed the line one too many times. They are no longer news organizations. They are willing propagandists for the DNC and the Left Wing.


84 posted on 09/09/2004 4:15:59 PM PDT by spodefly (I've posted nothing but BTTT over 1000 times!!!)
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To: dubyain04jebin08and12
That would be a heck of a lot of math for what purport to be personal memos!!!!

Nah, the little trick was that you would start in the center and backspace once for every two spaces in the line. As has been pointed out to me, though, is that you would need to have each line with an even number of spaces AND it wouldn't work with proportional spacing, so the little centering trick we used to use doesn't really apply to this document.

85 posted on 09/09/2004 4:16:26 PM PDT by alnick (US forces armed with what? Spitballs??)
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To: dubyain04jebin08and12

How's teh "typist" gonna figure the distance to the center of those proportional font "points" in the three lines before there were calculators?

What? Use a slide rule?

Then, so what?

he still has to put the typewriter at the ".xxx point" position to start typing!


86 posted on 09/09/2004 4:16:46 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Kerry's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: JCEccles
I got the same education today about the difference between Army and Air Force abbreviations. Looks like the forger screwed up the Air Force abbreviation anyway.

In the Army, the signature on a letterhead document would be "Commanding" not "Commander." True for the Air Force?

Compare the alleged Memo/Order with one of Kerry's orders from his own website, which is typical of the format I saw in the Army, adjusting for service differences. Note the different typeface and format. http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Bupers_Orders_To_Gridley.pdf

87 posted on 09/09/2004 4:17:13 PM PDT by colorado tanker (wanna see my happy hat?)
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To: centurion316

If it's not close, they can't cheat.


88 posted on 09/09/2004 4:17:17 PM PDT by GEC
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To: InterceptPoint
"Not a chance. Not one in a billion."

You forget ... these are Godless evolutionists.

There was a big bang at the DNC, algoregoop sprayed all over the place, x42 just happened to be around to interpret the results and it was all determined to be authentic.

DanBlather stands on his belief.

89 posted on 09/09/2004 4:17:37 PM PDT by knarf (A place where anyone can learn anything ... especially that which promotes clear thinking.)
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To: centurion316

"Because of Freepers like you who come forward and stand tall when the times demand and lay out the truth for all to see. "
AMEN! AMEN!


90 posted on 09/09/2004 4:17:43 PM PDT by Winfield (sham)
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To: GOPcapitalist

You would think they would have chosen a more convincing address. P.O. Box "34567"? What's up with that? A straight flush!


91 posted on 09/09/2004 4:18:38 PM PDT by mcg1969
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To: luvbach1
#70
Don't think anyone that skilled on mechanical typewriters is still on the job.

How right you are. Back in the mid-1990's, when I was manager of a large proposal documentation group, I earned the respect of the whole crew when I was able to make last minute corrections at 2:00 am when the typists had left, by using my Exacto knife, small light table, and some words pulled off error sheets that had been thrown away. I left the cut and mortised pages for the word processors to update their computer files the next morning.

92 posted on 09/09/2004 4:18:40 PM PDT by RightField (The older you get ... the older "old" is !)
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To: luvbach1
If forgery and a change of content did take place, would it have violated any law?

I believe so. You may dummy up a lot of documents for a lot of reasons without worry (as long as it is not intended to defraud someone of their property)--but don't try to dummy up a document and try to pass it off as an official document of an entity of the United States government (and the Guard has a sufficient federal nexus, I'm sure).

93 posted on 09/09/2004 4:18:55 PM PDT by JCEccles
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To: GOPcapitalist
See my COLOCALIZATION of an "original" and a Microsoft Word version posted earlier in the thread this post appears on.
94 posted on 09/09/2004 4:19:12 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: Jeff Head; GOPcapitalist; Howlin; Bob J; Luis Gonzalez; JohnHuang2

<< .... if 'they' ever can trace this thing back to its roots, we may well find that it all just adds more fuel to the fire regarding the theory that the Clinton's and their operatives are undermining Kerry so Hillary can be in position for 2008. >>

You are right on, of course.

But by suggesting he needs the Cli'ton's undermining You simultaneously flatter Kerry, give the Cli'ton gang way too much credit for the failure of his candidature -- and insult the inherent good common sense of the American electorate!

Not a bad days work.


95 posted on 09/09/2004 4:19:23 PM PDT by Brian Allen (I am, thank God, a hyphenated American -- An AMERICAN-American -- AND A Dollar-a-Day FReeper!)
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To: ScottFromSpokane

Are there any hyphens at the end of sentences? I was a secretary back then, and I couldn't type any document without hyphens.


96 posted on 09/09/2004 4:19:51 PM PDT by Twinkie
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To: spodefly

Rather's complicity in a willful hoax is becoming more and more obvious. This thing, if we play it right, could make the Jayson Blair shakeup look like a walk in the park. At first I was skeptical that the story would go anywhere other than the internet. Then I heard it on Hannity and now Brit Hume. It'll probably make a paper or two tommorrow like the Washington Times. We gotta keep pushing it though. Dan Rather resigning in disgrace would be wonderful, or if not a major apology on the air. Quite frankly with the way this thing is developing, neither is completely out of the question.


97 posted on 09/09/2004 4:21:06 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist ("Can Lincoln expect to subjugate a people thus resolved? No!" - Sam Houston, 3/1863)
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To: SandyInSeattle
But we couldn't center it like these were....no matter how hard we tried! The technology just wasn't there then. If there were an odd # of letters it was "off" just a little bit to either the right or the left.

I'm lovin' watching the dems and especially mr. blather go down in flames about this...LOL

98 posted on 09/09/2004 4:21:52 PM PDT by 2nd amendment mama (Can The Ban - let the AWB sunset • www.2asisters.org • www.cantheban.net)
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To: RightField

Also, EXCUSE ME, but there is no man in the world or who has EVER been in the world who would count spaces to get centering right. That's a woman thing.


99 posted on 09/09/2004 4:21:54 PM PDT by Twinkie
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

I know proportional font typewriters were available at the time. But I don't believe for a second that any line unit, Air Force or Army, would put the bucks out for one. We're supposed to believe that a unit that didn't even have letterhead stationary spent extra for a fancy typewriter?


100 posted on 09/09/2004 4:22:50 PM PDT by colorado tanker (wanna see my happy hat?)
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