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ABC News: Son of Late Officer Questions Bush Memos
ABC News ^ | 9-9-2004 | AP

Posted on 09/09/2004 4:15:11 PM PDT by Thanatos

DALLAS Sept. 9, 2004 — The authenticity of newly unearthed memos stating that George W. Bush failed to meet standards of the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War was questioned Thursday by the son of the late officer who reportedly wrote the memos. "I am upset because I think it is a mixture of truth and fiction here," said Gary Killian, son of Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who died in 1984.

Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a captain in 1991, said one of the memos, signed by his father, appeared legitimate. But he doubted his father would have written another, unsigned memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance review.

"It just wouldn't happen," he said. "The only thing that can happen when you keep secret files like that are bad things. ... No officer in his right mind would write a memo like that."

News reports have said the memos, first obtained by CBS's "60 Minutes II," were found in Jerry Killian's personal records. Gary Killian said his father wasn't in the habit of bringing his work home with him, and that the documents didn't come from the family.

CBS stood by its reporting. "As a standard practice at CBS, each of the documents broadcast on "60 Minutes" was thoroughly investigated by independent experts and we are convinced of their authenticity," CBS News said in a statement.

The White House distributed the four memos from 1972 and 1973 after obtaining them from CBS News. The White House did not question their accuracy.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; 60minutes; bush; bushmemos; camejo; cbs; cheney; dubya; edwards; election; forgery; fraud; gwb; kerry; killian; nader; napalminthemorning; nationalguard
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1 posted on 09/09/2004 4:15:12 PM PDT by Thanatos
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To: Thanatos
*snicker*

The house of cards are falling down...and blowing in the wind..........

2 posted on 09/09/2004 4:17:03 PM PDT by arbee4bush ( I expressed myself forcefully and felt better after I did it-VP Cheney)
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To: Thanatos

Another problem with internal evidence:

http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/kerry200409091911.asp


3 posted on 09/09/2004 4:17:09 PM PDT by ScottFromSpokane (Re-elect President Bush: http://spokanegop.org/bush.html)
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To: Thanatos

Man these guys will stop at nothing. Do you think Kerry has promised "Dan Ratter" a post in his administration? These new democrats are bad news.


4 posted on 09/09/2004 4:17:45 PM PDT by kcinnh
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To: Thanatos

It is not enough for CBS to state that they stand by their story and fail to respond to the specific concerns raised. So long as they fail to indicate their source of the documents, and explain the technical discrepancies, one has to provisionally assume the worst.


5 posted on 09/09/2004 4:17:56 PM PDT by thucydides
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: Thanatos
Developing Brief Partial Summary of the Forgery Elements of the CBS/Rather Faked letter
Insightful Comments Made by FReepers
=================================================

1-- proportional spacing not generally available
2 -- superscripts not generally available
3 - "th" single element not generally available
4 - Smart quotes. Curved apostrophes and quotation marks were not available
5-The blurriness of the copy indicates it was recopied dozens of times, tactic of forgers
6--Signature block. Typical authentic military signature block has name, then rank, then on the next line the person's position. This just has rank beneath the name.
7--Margins. These look like a computer's unjustified default, not the way a person typing would have done it.
8 -- Date usually with three letters, or in form as 110471.
9 - words run over consistent with word processor
10 - may be a Times Roman or similar font not generally available then (per Haas Atlas)
11 - signature looks faked
12 - no errors and whiteout
13 - no letterhead
14 - exact match for Microsoft Word Processor
15 - Paper size problem, Air Force and Guard did not use 8 1/2 x 11 inch paper until the 1980s.
16 - Overlap analysis is an exact match
17 - absence of hyphens to split words between lines, c/w 1970's typewriter.
18 - 5000 Longmont #8 in Houston Tx. does not exist
19 - Box 34567 is suspicious, at best
20 - it would have been nearly impossible to center a letterhead with proportional spacing without a computer.
21 - Bush's grade would "normally" be abbreviated "1Lt" not "1st Lt"
22 - Subject matter bizarre
23 - Air Force did not use street addresses for their offices, rather HQ AFLC/CC, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433.
7 posted on 09/09/2004 4:19:49 PM PDT by Diogenesis (Cuius rei demonstrationem mirabilem sane detexi hanc marginis exiguitas non caperet.)
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To: arbee4bush

ABC is trying to distance themselves for what they now realize is inevitable. ABC is now excited because CBS market share is now up for grabs. Jennings is piss'n himself he's so excited.


8 posted on 09/09/2004 4:19:50 PM PDT by mlbford2 ("sycophantic kerry koolaid sucker" -- S. Hannity)
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To: ScottFromSpokane

that article deserves its own thread.


9 posted on 09/09/2004 4:20:10 PM PDT by aft_lizard (I actually voted for John Kerry before I voted against him)
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To: ScottFromSpokane
Well, isn't that interesting, curiouser and curiouser methinks.
10 posted on 09/09/2004 4:20:13 PM PDT by highlander_UW (" Just bear in mind that there is no Botox for the soul.". - Sam Smith)
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To: Thanatos

Is this the "eating their own" part we all hoped would happen?


11 posted on 09/09/2004 4:20:14 PM PDT by dagar
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: ScottFromSpokane

you should post that as a seperate article.. it's a good'un


13 posted on 09/09/2004 4:20:52 PM PDT by Thanatos
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To: dagar

too bad this is not happening in mid to late october


14 posted on 09/09/2004 4:21:27 PM PDT by Thanatos
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To: Diogenesis

Need to add another part of it from powerlineblog via Kerryspot.com

Kerry Spot [ jim geraghty reporting ]
[ kerry spot home | archives | email ]

ONE MORE ARGUMENT

As much as the Kerry Spot has tried to keep up with this, PowerLine has been on top of this story all day long. That site just presented what ought to be the straw that breaks the camel's back:

In the August 18, 1973 memo "discovered" by 60 Minutes, Jerry Killian purportedly writes:
Staudt has obviously pressured Hodges more about Bush. I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job.
But wait! Reader Amar Sarwal points out that General Staudt, who thought very highly of Lt. Bush, retired in 1972.


Okay, CBS. The ball's in your court. Explain all this. Make all of this make sense. Don't completely ignore all of this, like you just did on the CBS Evening News.

If CBS ignores this, and gives no counterargument, no defense, then the general public will have no choice but to conclude that the network ran with a hoax - and now refuses to retra


15 posted on 09/09/2004 4:21:44 PM PDT by aft_lizard (I actually voted for John Kerry before I voted against him)
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To: Thanatos
The White House distributed the four memos from 1972 and 1973 after obtaining them from CBS News. The White House did not question their accuracy.

Yes they did, inside. This is Rove at his best. Release 'em, they're fake and it will be found out. Man that guy has this game down to an art!

16 posted on 09/09/2004 4:22:37 PM PDT by chesty_puller (USMC 2D Combined Action Group Viet Nam 70-71)
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To: Thanatos

Sorry folks but the verbage in the unsigned memo was not written by a senior military officer.
1. Lingo not used by military
2. Not signed or initialed
3. Not in any format that any military person would use

It's a phoney and will be discovered as such.


17 posted on 09/09/2004 4:23:52 PM PDT by conshack
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To: Diogenesis

Verrrry Interesting!


18 posted on 09/09/2004 4:24:20 PM PDT by talleyman (Proud graduate, Attila the Hun School of Diplomacy)
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To: kcinnh
Do you think Kerry has promised "Dan Ratter" a post in his administration? He's a true believer. I imagine that it has been rough on him to see how the Democratic Party in Texas has fallen apart.
19 posted on 09/09/2004 4:25:24 PM PDT by RobbyS (JMJ)
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To: bhlewis
News reports have said the memos, first obtained by CBS's "60 Minutes II," were found in Jerry Killian's personal records. Gary Killian said his father wasn't in the habit of bringing his work home with him, and that the documents didn't come from the family.

So where did they come from? I think CBS owes an answer here.

20 posted on 09/09/2004 4:26:48 PM PDT by umgud (speaking strictly as an infidel,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
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To: Diogenesis

Great summary. Am forwarding to my typist/word processor sister.


21 posted on 09/09/2004 4:27:19 PM PDT by LisaFab
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To: aft_lizard

Great find. This should not only collapse the Kerry campaign, Dan Rather and CBS it should annihilate them. Talk about a MOAB. Folks, we are seeing it happen.


22 posted on 09/09/2004 4:27:53 PM PDT by GrandmaPatriot
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To: Thanatos

Source URL not working for me - old? Did they spike it?


23 posted on 09/09/2004 4:27:54 PM PDT by talleyman (Proud graduate, Attila the Hun School of Diplomacy)
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To: Thanatos

You gotta love this.


24 posted on 09/09/2004 4:27:57 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (God bless Senator Zell Miller.)
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To: chesty_puller
I certainly agree with your line of thought.

I also agree with Killian's son that putting memos accusing "sugar coating" etc would simply not happening.

That's not covering your A**, that's setting yourself up.

25 posted on 09/09/2004 4:29:20 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: chesty_puller
"The White House distributed the four memos from 1972 and 1973 AFTER obtaining them from CBS News."

Chuckle. Chuckle.
26 posted on 09/09/2004 4:29:27 PM PDT by jimbo123
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To: rogercolleridge

Your thoughts?


27 posted on 09/09/2004 4:29:30 PM PDT by LisaFab
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To: Thanatos
CBS stood by its reporting. "As a standard practice at CBS, each of the documents broadcast on "60 Minutes" was thoroughly investigated by independent experts and we are convinced of their authenticity," CBS News said in a statement.

If that is true then why didn't at least the superscript catch the experts attention?

As usual, CBS will stand by its story up to the last minute.

28 posted on 09/09/2004 4:30:25 PM PDT by The Bandit
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To: Thanatos
The White House did not question their accuracy.

And why would they........they could have no idea what was in Killian's personal files.

29 posted on 09/09/2004 4:30:58 PM PDT by MamaLucci (Libs, want answers on 911? Ask Clinton why he met with Monica more than with his CIA director.)
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To: Thanatos
Working link:

Here

30 posted on 09/09/2004 4:31:10 PM PDT by stinkerpot65
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To: umgud
So where did they come from?

It's soooooo obvious--Sandy Berger's pants.

31 posted on 09/09/2004 4:32:03 PM PDT by pbear8 (Swifties plus POWs = Senator Kerry)
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To: aft_lizard; Diogenesis; NormsRevenge; Grampa Dave; SierraWasp; Mo1; McGavin999; Howlin; MEG33; ...
MSM NAILED AGAIN!!!!

Memo dated August 18, 1973 written by General Staudt, who thought very highly of Lt. Bush, retired in 1972.

32 posted on 09/09/2004 4:33:27 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Diogenesis
Box 34567 is suspicious, at best

Now you're making me nervous. People who forge documents don't leave trails like this (or the other 22) unless THEY WANT TO GET CAUGHT. Question: Is there any way that this can come back and bite us big time?

And remember, just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that people aren't really out to get me.

33 posted on 09/09/2004 4:34:05 PM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: talleyman
"Source URL not working for me - old? Did they spike it? "

Looks like it, but no big deal.. AP has the story all over the wires so it is easy to find.. here's the same story from another place: Son of Late Officer Questions Bush Memos

34 posted on 09/09/2004 4:35:50 PM PDT by Thanatos
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; TaxRelief

Oh, Wow


35 posted on 09/09/2004 4:36:03 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security)
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To: bhlewis
What morons to go out stating all this crap.

That depends on who started this. If it was lib'rals, then yes, they're morons. If it's conservatives, however, then I applaud their ingenuity and expertise at roping and doping.

36 posted on 09/09/2004 4:36:42 PM PDT by randog (What the....?!)
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To: aft_lizard

Fred Barnes on Fox said that someone at National Review was working on a report on this "curious memo".......

BAWAAAAAA.....


37 posted on 09/09/2004 4:36:51 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: All

Has anybody checked to see if the zip code is correct.. the US Postal Service will change zip codes over the years if population grows..


38 posted on 09/09/2004 4:37:12 PM PDT by Thanatos
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To: Thanatos

LSM Quack up ...


39 posted on 09/09/2004 4:37:44 PM PDT by snooker
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To: mlbford2
ABC is now excited because CBS market share is now up for grabs. Jennings is piss'n himself he's so excited.

ABC has lots of explainin' to do itself concerning the outright lies it broadcast yesterday about the so-called "assault rifle" ban. Next to "Fahrenheit 9-11" it was one of the rankest, most dishonest propaganda pieces ever broadcast in the U.S. It was a blanket of lies from beginning to end, aided and abetted by the L.A. police chief.

40 posted on 09/09/2004 4:38:06 PM PDT by Bernard Marx (Is Karl Marx's grave a Communist plot?)
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To: chesty_puller
** Yes they did, inside. This is Rove at his best. Release 'em, they're fake and it will be found out. Man that guy has this game down to an art!

You have nailed it. They sent that garbage to the WH, they saw it for what it was and KNEW freerepublic would be all over it. Absolutely brilliant I tell ya!
41 posted on 09/09/2004 4:40:12 PM PDT by four more in O 4 (God Bless George Bush and God Bless YOU.)
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To: GrandmaPatriot; SierraWasp; Dog; Coop; Cap Huff; tubebender; calcowgirl; farmfriend; FairOpinion; ..
Talk about a MOAB. Folks, we are seeing it happen.

I FEEL SO SORRY FOR THEM!!!!!

NOT!!

42 posted on 09/09/2004 4:41:26 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Thanatos
if the zip code is correct

The Zip Code would have been correct in the '70's.

43 posted on 09/09/2004 4:42:13 PM PDT by chesty_puller (USMC 2D Combined Action Group Viet Nam 70-71)
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To: chesty_puller
"Yes they did, inside. This is Rove at his best. Release 'em, they're fake and it will be found out. Man that guy has this game down to an art!

That dawned on me this morning. Man they played this beautifully.
44 posted on 09/09/2004 4:42:56 PM PDT by moehoward
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To: kcinnh
Do you think Kerry has promised "Dan Ratter" a post in his administration?

I don't think Dan is "all there," mentally, and would be incapable of serving in a Kerry Administration (ptui! gag!). My father died from Alzheimer's Disease, so I don't say this flippantly, but Dan's irrationality, paranoia, etc., remind me of someone suffering from that or a similar affliction.

Of course, this is nothing new for Gunga Dan. What's the frequency, Kenneth?

45 posted on 09/09/2004 4:43:16 PM PDT by mountaineer
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To: conshack
Would he write it after he retired>>>>>>>>>?

Kerry needs to pay his help better!!!!

46 posted on 09/09/2004 4:43:30 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

The source of the forgeries? My money is on Fred Barnes (who when caught, will probably argue that he got them from the widow Killian).


47 posted on 09/09/2004 4:43:32 PM PDT by finnigan2
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To: Diogenesis
exact match for Microsoft Word Processor

I am so far unable to produce a similar match using Word Perfect. Have played with 12, 13, and 14 point Times New Roman, auto-centering on. Have tried using bold lettering, as WP's version of TNR seems too hopelessly skinny to match the target.

Can't prove it can't be done, but I haven't done it easily as reportedly happens with MS Word.

48 posted on 09/09/2004 4:43:59 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
I hear ya... ka... BLEWEY!!!
49 posted on 09/09/2004 4:45:05 PM PDT by SierraWasp (Success is still the best revenge... In the land of the free... Because of the brave!!!)
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To: SierraWasp

I am laughing so damn hard that their desperation!!!!!


50 posted on 09/09/2004 4:46:18 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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