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ABC News: Son of Late Officer Questions Bush Memos
ABC News ^ | 9-9-2004 | AP

Posted on 09/09/2004 4:15:11 PM PDT by Thanatos

DALLAS Sept. 9, 2004 — The authenticity of newly unearthed memos stating that George W. Bush failed to meet standards of the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War was questioned Thursday by the son of the late officer who reportedly wrote the memos. "I am upset because I think it is a mixture of truth and fiction here," said Gary Killian, son of Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who died in 1984.

Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a captain in 1991, said one of the memos, signed by his father, appeared legitimate. But he doubted his father would have written another, unsigned memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance review.

"It just wouldn't happen," he said. "The only thing that can happen when you keep secret files like that are bad things. ... No officer in his right mind would write a memo like that."

News reports have said the memos, first obtained by CBS's "60 Minutes II," were found in Jerry Killian's personal records. Gary Killian said his father wasn't in the habit of bringing his work home with him, and that the documents didn't come from the family.

CBS stood by its reporting. "As a standard practice at CBS, each of the documents broadcast on "60 Minutes" was thoroughly investigated by independent experts and we are convinced of their authenticity," CBS News said in a statement.

The White House distributed the four memos from 1972 and 1973 after obtaining them from CBS News. The White House did not question their accuracy.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; 60minutes; bush; bushmemos; camejo; cbs; cheney; dubya; edwards; election; forgery; fraud; gwb; kerry; killian; nader; napalminthemorning; nationalguard
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To: pbear8

Check for Carville's slimy fingerprints. This is their way to torpedo the Kerry campaign so the field will be clear for Hillary.


51 posted on 09/09/2004 4:46:42 PM PDT by ConservativeMajority
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To: VadeRetro

Save your efforts see #32!


ROFL!!!

Kerry just can't get good help anymore!!!!


52 posted on 09/09/2004 4:48:43 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: arbee4bush; Mo1; Texasforever
*snicker*

Why just snicker?

Join the rest of in ROFLMAO.

53 posted on 09/09/2004 4:49:58 PM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: Thanatos

What did Dan Rather know, and when did he know it?


54 posted on 09/09/2004 4:51:55 PM PDT by dfwgator (It's sad that the news media treats Michael Jackson better than our military.)
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To: Howlin
Read on down, it gets better...see #32!

ROFLMAO!!!!

55 posted on 09/09/2004 4:52:31 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Howlin; arbee4bush; Texasforever
Why just snicker? Join the rest of in ROFLMAO.

I've been laughing my butt off .. *L*

56 posted on 09/09/2004 4:53:34 PM PDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: Mo1

This thing is speading like wildfire.


57 posted on 09/09/2004 4:55:33 PM PDT by Texasforever (Kerry's new slogan "IT'S NOT THE STUPID CANDIDATE SO STOP SAYING THAT")
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Kerry just can't get good help anymore!!!!

He's getting help from Hillary the Lucky. ;)

58 posted on 09/09/2004 4:55:45 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Thanatos

Corrupt Broadcasting Company


59 posted on 09/09/2004 4:56:30 PM PDT by aculeus
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To: Mo1

Me, too! The phones been ringing off the hook and I'm just ignoring it!


60 posted on 09/09/2004 4:56:31 PM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: Howlin; Mo1

If these are typewritten and CBS has the originals then there should be the letters should be embedded into the paper...no?


61 posted on 09/09/2004 4:59:11 PM PDT by Texasforever (Kerry's new slogan "IT'S NOT THE STUPID CANDIDATE SO STOP SAYING THAT")
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To: The Bandit
CBS stood by its reporting. "As a standard practice at CBS, each of the documents broadcast on "60 Minutes" was thoroughly investigated by independent experts and we are convinced of their authenticity,"

Their "independent experts" apparently were about as independent as CBS and Dan Rather.

62 posted on 09/09/2004 5:00:35 PM PDT by TheClintons-STILLAnti-American (Stupid is as stupid does. -John Forrestgump Kerry)
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To: Texasforever
I'm not an expert and the type writer my parents had that I used back in the 70's was OLD

But yes, those letters were embedded in the paper
63 posted on 09/09/2004 5:02:04 PM PDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: TheClintons-STILLAnti-American

Amid questions raised on Internet weblogs about the authenticity of National Guard documents potentially damaging to President Bush, CBS News told WorldNetDaily it stands by its claims.

Spokeswoman Kelli Edwards said she was aware of the charge that the documents, purportedly produced in 1972 and 1973, appear to have been forged with a modern word processor.

"As is standard practice at CBS News, each of the documents broadcast on '60 Minutes' was thoroughly investigated by independent experts, and we are convinced of their authenticity," said Edwards.

Edwards refused to comment further, referring back to her statement as the final word.

Later, however, she sent an e-mail to WND, adding, "CBS verified the authenticity of the documents by talking to individuals who had seen the documents at the time they were written. These individuals were close associates of [Bush commander] Colonel Jerry Killian and confirm that the documents reflect his opinions at the time the documents were written."


64 posted on 09/09/2004 5:02:48 PM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: Texasforever

Uh.....see #32!

They screwed up in ways other than using a 1972 typewriter....


65 posted on 09/09/2004 5:03:20 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Thanatos
The White House did not question their accuracy.

Nor did the White House question their inaccuracy.

66 posted on 09/09/2004 5:04:03 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (If you decide to kick the tiger in the ass...you'd better be prepared to deal with the teeth.)
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To: Mo1
I also remember typewriter paper being much flimsier than we use for printers.
67 posted on 09/09/2004 5:04:48 PM PDT by Texasforever (Kerry's new slogan "IT'S NOT THE STUPID CANDIDATE SO STOP SAYING THAT")
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To: Sacajaweau
Let's think about this. If Lt Col Killian kept these memos on 1Lt George Bush over a period of several months in some sort of "personal file", then he must have kept many, many more such memos on those who really screwed up. Perhaps CBS (Danny boy) would be kind enough to confirm that "Yes indeed, Lt Col Killian did in fact have quite a large number of memos in his 'personal files' regarding all the screw-ups in the 147th Fighter Grp. By the way from Oct 1963 to Oct 1966, I was assigned as a radio maintenance technician in the 747th AC&W Sq. which provided all of the radar and communications support for the 147th Fighter Grp. Just for info from many previous posts, two F-102's were kept on alert at all times, not just in "special 24 hour periods" as has been stated before.
68 posted on 09/09/2004 5:11:38 PM PDT by txbill
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To: GrandmaPatriot; Howlin; SierraWasp; Mo1; MEG33
Talk about a MOAB. Folks, we are seeing it happen.

In a big way, CBS is still defending the memos....

See Howlins post at #64!

Memo was dated

August 18, 1973

referencing pressure from "Staudt has obviously pressured Hodges more about Bush"........however

General Staudt, who thought very highly of Lt. Bush, retired in 1972.

69 posted on 09/09/2004 5:13:15 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
RATHER GATE!!!

Heard it on Huge Hewitt... pass it on!!!

70 posted on 09/09/2004 5:17:19 PM PDT by SierraWasp (Success is still the best revenge... In the land of the free... Because of the brave!!!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
I FEEL SO SORRY FOR THEM!!!!!
NOT!!

Ahhh... come on Ernest... where's your compassion???

Bwaaaaaaahahahhaaaaaaaaa!!!! LOL.

...this just keeps gettin' better and better... thanks for the ping :-)

71 posted on 09/09/2004 5:19:31 PM PDT by calcowgirl
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To: Diogenesis
Dio;

I usually stay out of these but its just too much fun playin' T-Ball with LEFTIST heads. So, I thought I'd dust off my ol' 40 ounce Louisville Slugger.

What is KERNING ?

kern·ing
noun
adjustment of space between letters: the addition or removal
of space between individual characters in a piece of
typeset text to improve its appearance or alter its fit

Kerning could only be done by TYPESETTERS in the 1970's and early 1980's. Even early versions of WordStar and its famous DOT commands on 1980's CPM Z80 machines couldn't do Kerning.
72 posted on 09/09/2004 5:20:40 PM PDT by pyx (Freedom of the press is limited to those who own one.)
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To: SierraWasp; GrandmaPatriot
AS GrandmaPatriot said .....they may have just dropped a MOAB...... on themselves of their own making!!!!!!

This is just hilarious....what clowns.....

73 posted on 09/09/2004 5:20:52 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: calcowgirl; SierraWasp

This is so fun....

Not enough people know about this yet ....

everyone should ping ten people....

I've done better than that but I might have a few yet I could ping.....


74 posted on 09/09/2004 5:24:56 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: arbee4bush

Bump for later...


75 posted on 09/09/2004 5:26:12 PM PDT by Bayou City
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To: All

I am a bit confused. What is the forged document, and is it harmful for Kerry or Bush if it is forged. (forgive my ignorance, I am very tired and am having trouble thinking)


76 posted on 09/09/2004 5:28:10 PM PDT by chalkman (Three can keep a secret if two are dead)
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To: Texasforever
I also remember typewriter paper being much flimsier than we use for printers

Yes I remember that type of paper also

77 posted on 09/09/2004 5:30:49 PM PDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: Thanatos
The White House distributed the four memos from 1972 and 1973 after obtaining them from CBS News. The White House did not question their accuracy.

Snicker....WH: "Shooting yourself in the foot? Here, let me help you with your ammo."

78 posted on 09/09/2004 5:39:46 PM PDT by citizen (Write-in Tom Tancredo for President/Jeff Flake VP 2004!)
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To: Thanatos

The Clintonistas job is to DESTROY Kerry, and they are doing a FINE job!


79 posted on 09/09/2004 5:41:38 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Diogenesis

The MSM makes me puke.


80 posted on 09/09/2004 5:42:07 PM PDT by Ciexyz ("FR, best viewed with a budgie on hand")
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To: finnigan2
The source of the forgeries?

Vince Foster?

;-)

81 posted on 09/09/2004 5:42:45 PM PDT by longshadow
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To: Diogenesis

Correct - 1Lt not 1st Lt.


82 posted on 09/09/2004 5:44:35 PM PDT by Ciexyz ("FR, best viewed with a budgie on hand")
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To: chalkman
One of the Memo's dated August 73 claims pressure from a higher ranking officier to help Bush .....it looks forged ....but it is really dubious since the General retired in 1972......

See this for details:

Kerry Spot [ jim geraghty reporting ]

They Kerry DemonicRats just dropped a MOAB on themselves!!!

83 posted on 09/09/2004 5:46:51 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: chalkman
(forgive my ignorance, I am very tired and am having trouble thinking)

Drink a warm glass of milk and go to bed.

You might think better in the morning.

84 posted on 09/09/2004 5:47:33 PM PDT by CROSSHIGHWAYMAN (3 Purple Hearts? No blood? No Way!!)
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To: The Bandit
If that is true then why didn't at least the superscript catch the experts attention?

As soon as the documents were posted on cbsnews.com, freepers were pointing out the anachronistic nature of the memos. It doesn't say much for CBS, and their expert, that they missed these obvious errors.

85 posted on 09/09/2004 6:10:00 PM PDT by NYCVirago
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To: Thanatos
Updated AP story here.
86 posted on 09/09/2004 6:11:47 PM PDT by TexasNative2000 (When it's all said and done, someone starts another conversation.......)
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To: Thanatos

Bump


87 posted on 09/09/2004 6:13:26 PM PDT by VOA
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To: kcinnh

No,Dan's Dem daughter who wants to be in politics.


88 posted on 09/09/2004 6:16:24 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Diogenesis
Diogenesis has provided the most complete summary of the problems with this hoax. Thanks.
89 posted on 09/09/2004 6:21:31 PM PDT by Malesherbes
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To: Diogenesis

bttt


90 posted on 09/09/2004 6:22:21 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: VadeRetro
"Can't prove it can't be done, but I haven't done it easily as reportedly happens with MS Word."

Would you guess, as I would, that it's a federal crime to possess/use forged and altered government documents for the purpose of committing massive fraud over state lines in an effort to interfere with a federal election and to do so under color of a federally granted broadcasting license?

And further, if there were reasonable cause to believe this had occured, wouldn't the Attorney General, in response to citizen complaint, have authority to order an FBI investigation of such alleged crime?

And, if such an order were given by the AG, wouldn't the FBI have ample resources for determining how these documents were made, what machine/s they were typed on, and when they could and could not have been composed? Wouldn't the FBI be in position to determine where that stationary came from, how old it was, whether the Texas/Alabama ANGs used it back then, as well as similar information about the ink/s?

My answer to all of these question is "yes."

91 posted on 09/09/2004 6:30:36 PM PDT by Bonaparte (and guess who sighs his lullabies, to nights that never end...)
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To: Bonaparte
I'm not sure what somebody did and what the law says about it. I'm pretty sure Dan Rather was candy for some fraudster because he'd have wanted to forge these documents himself if he dared.
92 posted on 09/09/2004 6:36:25 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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The White House distributed the four memos from 1972 and 1973 after obtaining them from CBS News. The White House did not question their accuracy.

He not so dumb.

93 posted on 09/09/2004 6:39:14 PM PDT by mingusthecat (Mingus has again opined. Like any cat, she doesn't really care what YOU think.)
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To: VadeRetro
Incidentally, the point of this experiment is to show that it's very, very hard to get superimposable text with two different modern word processing programs. WordPerfect and MS Word don't seem to want to agree to that degree.

Nevertheless, CBS standing by its story and all that, MS Word and some long-ago typewriter apparently make text that shadows. Furthermore, it's reportedly EASY to do with the default font and character size of MS Word.

94 posted on 09/09/2004 6:43:07 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Diogenesis

Also: The letter format is IAW today's standard, not those in use in 1972. Killian's signature is right of center on these memos...USAF change to that style in the 90's. Killian's signatur should have been left justified.


95 posted on 09/09/2004 6:48:03 PM PDT by TankerKC (R.I.P. Spc Trevor A. Win'E American Hero)
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To: Thanatos
The White House distributed the four memos from 1972 and 1973 after obtaining them from CBS News" Is it just possible that someone in the Bush Whitehouse is smart enough to figure this forgery out and distributed them without comment to sink Dan Rather forever? Just thinking Karl Rove is that smart is scary. But nice scary.:-)
96 posted on 09/09/2004 7:07:25 PM PDT by wildbill
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To: Thanatos

PING


97 posted on 09/09/2004 7:20:43 PM PDT by chaosagent (It's all right to be crazy. Just don't let it drive you nuts.)
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To: Thanatos

I didn't have time; I was just heading out the door for a meeting to paint signs for our 9/11 rally, then I had a meeting of BC '04 Precinct Chairs, then I went out to help set up the GOP booth at the county fair.

(Someone remind me again why I signed up for this?)

Anyway, I figured if I called everyone's attention to it, someone else would post it.

Now I've got to catch up on the news.


98 posted on 09/09/2004 9:15:27 PM PDT by ScottFromSpokane (Re-elect President Bush: http://spokanegop.org/bush.html)
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To: Thanatos

http://www.wrko.com/listingsEntry.asp?ID=177492&PT=


99 posted on 09/09/2004 9:15:46 PM PDT by joyce11111
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To: ScottFromSpokane


http://www.wrko.com/listingsEntry.asp?ID=177492&PT=


100 posted on 09/09/2004 9:20:03 PM PDT by joyce11111
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