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Blogger Challenge: Let's start with Iraq, shall we?
Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 9 15 2004 | Kathleen Parker

Posted on 09/16/2004 9:41:11 AM PDT by Stallone

The article is quite complimentary to the new media.

It ends with a challenge to help solve world problems that media organizations only whine about.

So, taking up the challenge:

Freepers, in all seriousness, how to we best resolve the Iraq situation.

(Excerpt) Read more at sltrib.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: blogger; freerepublic; iraq; parker
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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Tell it straight:

Bomb them to oblivion?

Get out fast?

Relocate the UN there?

Leave it alone, they're doing great?

Let's use this thread to consolidate the best ideas for helping to expedite the Iraq situation, and teach old media a few things.

1 posted on 09/16/2004 9:41:24 AM PDT by Stallone
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To: Stallone
Bomb them to oblivion?

In a word: Yes!.
2 posted on 09/16/2004 9:45:22 AM PDT by Thrusher (The timing of this post is suspicious.)
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To: Stallone
Bomb them to oblivion?

In a word: Yes!.
3 posted on 09/16/2004 9:45:27 AM PDT by Thrusher (The timing of this post is suspicious.)
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To: Stallone
First of all, you wait until after the election and then look at the real picture. You get the media to report the truthful story that is believable for better or worse. Ignore the UN. Ignore Albright. Send in Powell and the old guy that worked for Bush Sr who is negotiating the debates and tell them to strart cutting deals. Ignore the crazies and get the sane leaders protected.

Did I leave anything out?

4 posted on 09/16/2004 9:49:06 AM PDT by Thebaddog (Dogs for Bush!)
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To: Stallone
I hate it when people get the general idea but can't grasp the SPECIFIC INSTANCE.

She misses the SPECIFIC point made by recent events.

THe internet is no better a "problem-solving" tool than more traditional tools, unless it is an INFORMATION based problem. What distributed processing represents is an exponentially better way to PROCESS INFORMATION.

Journalism, if it is fact based and not just political activism in disguise -- journalism is mainly just information testing and publishing. Document analysis is information.

Many of life's problems are not just information-processing tasks, but also involve supra-information, like politics.

Iraq is a political problem. Iraq is a religious problem. Iraq is a military problem.

The bloggers have dethroned the Old Media. The bloggers cannot "solve" political problems any better than any model already in existence.

5 posted on 09/16/2004 9:51:13 AM PDT by Taliesan (fiction police)
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To: Stallone

You aren't serious are you. We spent thousands of hours talking about the Kosovo/Serbia war as a cover for the Terrorist to move into Europe through the door opened by Bill Clinton. We were called tin-foil haters etc etc. We discussed at length the TWA 800 bombing and were called tin-foil hate types and even Rush ridiculed us. Now that the media has been shown to be the incompetent commie/fascist/socialist/dumb dums we all knew they were..........your suggesting we do What. Make a case for what a great guy Saddamn is, question WMD's which the French so nicely helped Saddamn smuggle to Syrian. What? Be specific.


6 posted on 09/16/2004 9:51:14 AM PDT by marty60
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To: Taliesan
THe internet is no better a "problem-solving" tool than more traditional tools, unless it is an INFORMATION based problem. What distributed processing represents is an exponentially better way to PROCESS INFORMATION.

Well stated. You saved me from making the same point.

7 posted on 09/16/2004 9:55:19 AM PDT by Snuffington
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To: Stallone

The following has some relevance to the discussion:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1217886/posts


8 posted on 09/16/2004 9:58:18 AM PDT by Ben Chad
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To: Stallone

Here's my two cents:

The Arab mind, through a combination of religious training and culture, respects only power and desires to follow. It simply cannot lead.

The Arab mind is not comfortable, nor is it competent, in being self-directing.

The terrorists are masters at exploiting this vulnerability, seen only in the west with left-leaning Socialists.

The coalition must seize the initiative.

Since the religious leaders hold such sway over the Arabs, it is past time that the coalition find and promote religious leaders to finally start declaring loudly and publicly that resistance is futile and that terrorism is wrong.

Remember: The most likely form of 'democracy' that can ever take hold within the next century will be one guided by a Giuliani, an iron-fisted maverick who first necessarily demonstrates control and earns the respect of the Arabs.


9 posted on 09/16/2004 9:59:44 AM PDT by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: Stallone
Re locate the UN to Iraq...of course, at the expense of the Iraqis. Then, saturate the airways, media, etc., with sitcoms, ads for feminine hygiene products, Lavern and Shirley re-runs...and after they have had enough of that and the 'Kofi show'...we'll see if they have the 'right' perspective.
10 posted on 09/16/2004 10:00:09 AM PDT by SMARTY ('Stay together, pay the soldiers, forget everything else." Lucius Septimus Severus, to his sons)
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To: Stallone
Great article, forward looking.

As to Iraq, my guess is things are going much better there than CBS is portraying.

11 posted on 09/16/2004 10:01:12 AM PDT by JPJones ("We'll cross all our tee's and dot all our.....lower case j's")
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To: Taliesan
The bloggers have dethroned the Old Media. The bloggers cannot "solve" political problems any better than any model already in existence.

Plus assist in muddling situations further.

12 posted on 09/16/2004 10:06:51 AM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: marty60

Information-based problems are often a snap.

Geo-political ones require a different level of thinking.

But in watching even this very worthy administration, we have all witnessed seriously incoherent strategies.

Remember the earliest bifurcations on the issue of Palestinian terrorism shortly after 9/11, i.e. still not justifying Israeli pre-emptive action in the opinion of America (Powell!).

The ridiculous Al-Sadr strategic truces we honored whenever we cornered him, parroting the Arab historical precedence with similar consequences.

I really think we can add a LOT to even geo-political discussions.

Don't be shy - speak out!


13 posted on 09/16/2004 10:08:03 AM PDT by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: Stallone

We have been at that one for a long time. Simply point out all the information FR has provided on Iraq and you will see what the MSM has not covered.

For original content, any FReeper that knows a soldier that has come back from Iraq should get a first hand account from them. Many have stories of all the good the U.S. is doing and that they have been involved with directly.


14 posted on 09/16/2004 10:11:16 AM PDT by BJungNan (Stop Spam - Do NOT buy from junk email.)
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To: Stallone
The best way to resolve Iraq is to take the gloves off so that there is no where to hide in Iraq for insurgents. If the next time a group of insurgents hold up in a mosque it is turned to dust within 24 hours the insurgents will know they no longer have sanctuary anywhere in Iraq.

Having said that the left has tied the hands of our military once again and the politicians even Bush have acquiesced to a certain degree prolonging the war and getting more of our young people killed then need be. Did we learn nothing from Vietnam?

The solution to this is to help Iraq hire some of the mercenary organizations available to handle the insurgents. These organizations are highly professional and skilled and will clean up Iraq with less manpower and resources and faster then we can because they are not as easily influenced by politics etc. We all know the private sector is always more efficient then government otherwise they can't stay in business.

They do scare governments because government fears loosing it's power but they have a proven track record. A group called Executive Outcome went in to Sierra Leone with just 300 men against tens of thousands in the rebel army and stopped the genocide and entire war bringing peace and order to the region until the UN had a fit a private army was involved in a state conflict. Well the UN influenced the government to terminate EO's contract and sent in 17,000 troops to keep the peace however it soon degraded right back to slaughter and genocide because UN troops could not handle the rebels and hundreds of thousands were murdered since the rebels were smarting for getting their asses handed to them by 300 highly skilled and trained men. Remember the news reports of atrocities in Sierra Leone?

The history channel did a story on mercs a while back that was pretty good called Soldiers for Hire. You can still buy the video at their website I believe.

There are already quite a bit of mercs as they are called in Iraq mostly hired by the US. But I think a group Like EO could really do wonders for Iraq and get our boys out of there quicker.
15 posted on 09/16/2004 10:21:13 AM PDT by hawkiye
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To: Stallone

I say we table the issue of Iraq until Iran and Syria have been dealt with.


16 posted on 09/16/2004 10:21:21 AM PDT by thoughtomator ("With 64 days left, John Kerry still has time to change his mind 4 or 5 more times" - Rudy Giuliani)
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To: hawkiye

Excellent!


17 posted on 09/16/2004 10:22:20 AM PDT by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: thoughtomator

There is no doubt that the Socialists 'round the world have somewhat tied America's hands on further pre-emptive action.

No doubt it was their intent from the outset, and in the biased on-going reportage.

The political costs for proceeding in this environment would be enormous.

Yet, many of us know that it must be done.

Perhaps the real lesson is to first destroy old media which does so much to undermine American success and progress.

RatherGate could be just the opportunity to make an example of the costs of helping to incite world hatred against America.


18 posted on 09/16/2004 10:27:50 AM PDT by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: Stallone

The first thing need to be done is for Bush to all out France by name, which is refusing to provide Nato Troops to train the Itraqi Force. After that, they also need to point out that France is stonewalling the Sudan, and attempts to block the USA from taking actions - again, because it has 'Oil Interests' in that country, as it had in Iraq. The troublemakers should be eliminated first, before re-focus can occur.


19 posted on 09/16/2004 10:30:57 AM PDT by Inge C (,)
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To: Stallone

Something everybody should know also: France is providing currently weapons to the insurgents, which kill our soldiers.


20 posted on 09/16/2004 10:31:50 AM PDT by Inge C (,)
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To: Stallone

The Net's already doing their job--we're getting the stories out about Iraq that the MSM refuses to. Part of the problem in Iraq is that the MSM is cheerleading for the terrorists in an effort to disparage an American President they don't like. Shining the Web's White-Hot Spotlight in that direction will disinfect the crime scene and go a long way towards honest discussion on Iraq and what to do there.


21 posted on 09/16/2004 10:32:34 AM PDT by randog (What the....?!)
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To: Inge C

Seriously?

France is CONTINUING to provide arms?

Can you provide documentation/links?


22 posted on 09/16/2004 10:32:39 AM PDT by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: Stallone

Reporting for duty .. on November 3, 2004. :^}


23 posted on 09/16/2004 10:34:30 AM PDT by snooker (French Fried Flip Flopper still Flouncing, be careful out there.)
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To: randog

How much has this abuse been invited because of the personalities/values/styles of President Bush, say, in contrast to Clinton?

One thing I do know - Clinton made his 'enemies' pay, and pay dearly.

While I certainly don't condone it, it seems to me that the good nature of President Bush is abused by those critics and weasels who know that they can get away with abusing him with impunity, with no consequences.

Remember my theory about the Arab mind respecting brute power - the exact same truth applies to the Socialist Left.


24 posted on 09/16/2004 10:36:03 AM PDT by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: Stallone

Yes, it is a testament to the values and good nature of our President that he lets criticism roll off his back.

But that does not endear him to the weasel Left.

I think the best thing President Bush can do to win back the support of the national media and world leaders is to appoint unleash those surrogates who have brute power.

The success of the GOP Convention in large measure was due to the power and ridicule generated by Giuliani and Schwarzenegger.

President Bush needs much, much more of this, year-round, particularly at the UN.


25 posted on 09/16/2004 10:42:04 AM PDT by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: Stallone
The wealthy people living in mansions after the socialist Allende took over Chile were driven out by stopping up their sewer lines. One home blew up when a resident lit a cigarette and the methane gas ignited. That was all it took.

As armchair general, I would cut off sewers, electricity and fresh water to the "no-go zones". Then conduct full body cavity searches to all who evacuated to waiting camps. Finally, go in and kill remaining holdouts.

And, from lessons learned from Kemel Attaturk, I would silence any mullah who preached insurgence.

26 posted on 09/16/2004 10:42:43 AM PDT by bukkdems
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To: Stallone
Geo-political ones require a different level of thinking.

Oh really. Now that wouldn't be that America is the case of ALL the problems of the world. Or, that because Israel won't lay down ( or better yet get on the box-cars)for the commie/fascist/socialist/ dumb dums in the U.S. , they should be turned on by the world community. Yes all those tired old arguments have been made. The problem with the media types is that The United States (and Israel for a lot longer period) will not turn the other cheek anymore.

27 posted on 09/16/2004 10:45:14 AM PDT by marty60
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To: Stallone

The U. N. oh my gawd you have got to be joking. it's one big elitist money grubbing bunch of third worlders. and that includes France.


28 posted on 09/16/2004 10:47:48 AM PDT by marty60
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To: Snuffington
"THe internet is no better a "problem-solving" tool than more traditional tools, unless it is an INFORMATION based problem. What distributed processing represents is an exponentially better way to PROCESS INFORMATION. Well stated. You saved me from making the same point."

I disagree the Internet is a much better problem solving tool because it allows many minds to put out their thoughts in the market place of ideas. Where as the old media was a few elites trying to influence local state and world events. and stifling information and communication.

Your model seems to be that it is just reporting facts or information. However it is an exchange of ideas also, a type of electronic brainstorming if you will. The Internet cannot solve problems in and of itself when looking at it as just a means of conveying information, however it is much more efficient in doing so facilitating more ideas and solutions faster then ever before hence is a better tool!

For example the fair tax initiative has been around for decades but was stifled by the old media as just a fringe idea. Now it seems to be gaining momentum through the Internet and talk radio that perhaps it will at least have a chance to be voted on.

So when you say the new media is no better tool then the old unless it is an information based problem it makes no sense to me. Aren't all problems and solutions information based? It appears to be a much better tool empowering the rank and file who were once mostly bystanders to be much more involved in the marketplace of ideas and solutions What am I missing?

29 posted on 09/16/2004 10:50:20 AM PDT by hawkiye
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To: Stallone

MSM doesn't set the agenda.
Blogs do.
This isn't where they are, I'm afraid.


30 posted on 09/16/2004 10:55:04 AM PDT by mabelkitty (Watch for a CBS employee in a trench coat going by DeepWord.....)
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To: Stallone

Proposed Arab religious leader---
JIM JONES

He could start his own brand of moose-limb kool-aid.


31 posted on 09/16/2004 10:59:16 AM PDT by bicyclerepair
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To: bukkdems

Agreed!

Mullahs inciting with impunity is absolutely a root cause of the problem.

Where the hell exactly is the CIA in pre-empting this?


32 posted on 09/16/2004 11:02:43 AM PDT by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: Stallone

Promote free elections in those local areas that are more amenable to the concept and let them govern themselves, including their own Iraqi security forces. This will do in miniature what the advocated goal is for Iraq as a whole, create more liberal (in the 19th century sense of the word) government amidst a sea of dictators and warlords to act as an example and goal to the rest. Iraq may ultimately split up, but so what? Avoid the splitting up of Iraq is a rather arbitrary goal and only hinders what we are trying to do.


33 posted on 09/16/2004 11:05:06 AM PDT by nosofar ("I'm not above the Law. I am the Law!" - Judge Dredd)
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To: marty60

I only suggest using the UN as America's bully pulpit.

Imagine what Giuliani could do there?

We cannot participate weakly, and meekly stand by while Kofi declares our defense 'illegal'.

Let's use it to kick ass, loudly.


34 posted on 09/16/2004 11:06:13 AM PDT by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: Stallone

Yes, I would agree that Bush's 'turn the other cheek' approach is wearing thin. He needs to continue to speak softly - it's in his nature - but he also needs to go down to The Big Stick Shoppe and make a major purchase.


35 posted on 09/16/2004 11:06:27 AM PDT by randog (What the....?!)
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To: randog

What do you think of the surrogate approach?

Spineless RINO's won't do, of course.


36 posted on 09/16/2004 11:08:59 AM PDT by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: Stallone

Another UN point:

The French derived much of their supposed world stature in this forum.

Can we not start to discredit, diminish and undermine the weasels there and elsewhere?

I agree with Inge C that France should be bounced from NATO.


37 posted on 09/16/2004 11:11:55 AM PDT by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: Stallone

this argument is moot. It is not the way Bush works. Ann richards tried the running around the room hair on fire, personal attack campaign tactics on him. she lost big time. bush is steady, resolute and does not rattle easily. Unlike I might add the skerry dumb dums.


38 posted on 09/16/2004 11:12:04 AM PDT by marty60
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To: marty60

The question is whether this style will lead to the support from the American public and coalition partners for continuing necessary pre-emptions in Iran, North Korea, Syria.


39 posted on 09/16/2004 11:17:37 AM PDT by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: Stallone

What is the Iraq situation? (Define what we are to work on, first).:)


40 posted on 09/16/2004 11:44:38 AM PDT by Diddley (Hey Kerry: The swiftees are comin' for ya')
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To: nosofar

nosofar said
"Promote free elections in those local areas that are more amenable to the concept and let them govern themselves, including their own Iraqi security forces. This will do in miniature what the advocated goal is for Iraq as a whole .."

I like this idea, reward the behavior you want to encourage.

On a slightly different tack, I think the war effort, and especially the setbacks and difficulties, would be better received if Bush imitated Churchill in the respect of constantly warning of how difficult the road ahead will be, talking frankly about the obstacles, the efforts to frustrate Iraqi freedom by Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and others. Openly accuse the bad guys. Promise to remain steadfast to our friends through thick and thin.

Outrageously high expectations, fueled by the ease of victory over Saddams army, create a climate of public disappointment whenever the inevitable setbacks occur. We need to lower expectations, and get tough.


41 posted on 09/16/2004 11:47:46 AM PDT by Jonah Lomu (John F. Kerry plan for Iraq "When the going gets tough-I pull out")
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To: Diddley

a. A situation in which national sentiment and world opinion runs counter to the positive results on the ground, thereby diminishing the continuing use of pre-emption;
b. A situation in which terrorists continue to hold sway over some of the Iraqi landscape.


42 posted on 09/16/2004 12:01:52 PM PDT by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: Stallone
Leave it alone, they're doing great?

Although we have no basis for knowing if it is working. The real story in Iraq is not generally covered.

The Najaf situation made the US strategy perfectly clear. We are playing rope-a-dope until a sufficient Iraqi force is trained and equipped to do the heavy lifting. In the meantime.. minimize casulties and to do as much good as possible.

We have become a remarably impatient nation.
43 posted on 09/16/2004 12:46:07 PM PDT by self_evident
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To: Jonah Lomu
On a slightly different tack, I think the war effort, and especially the setbacks and difficulties, would be better received if Bush imitated Churchill in the respect of constantly warning of how difficult the road ahead will be, talking frankly about the obstacles, the efforts to frustrate Iraqi freedom by Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and others. Openly accuse the bad guys. Promise to remain steadfast to our friends through thick and thin.

Good point. And not just Bush. I think the only person that has been consistent in saying this is Rice.

If Kerrey would have taken this tact.. I think Bush would be defeated, but instead it's clear he wants to jump ship and then we are back to square one (or worse).
44 posted on 09/16/2004 12:52:48 PM PDT by self_evident
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To: self_evident
We have become a remarably impatient nation.

Yup, but the administration must take this into account in their policy making. They can't just wish it were otherwise. It does seem like Bush and his advisors were trying to wage this war based on the election cycle.

45 posted on 09/16/2004 1:44:45 PM PDT by nosofar ("I'm not above the Law. I am the Law!" - Judge Dredd)
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To: self_evident
If Kerrey would have taken this tact..

Expect him to start.

46 posted on 09/16/2004 1:45:51 PM PDT by nosofar ("I'm not above the Law. I am the Law!" - Judge Dredd)
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To: marty60

What is with the attitude? I've read two of your posts so far that have been nasty.

What's your problem?


47 posted on 09/16/2004 2:33:12 PM PDT by texasflower (How appropriate...... the pro abortion party is the "D 'N' C")
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To: Stallone

Thanks.


48 posted on 09/16/2004 2:37:15 PM PDT by Diddley (Hey Kerry: The swiftees are comin' for ya')
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To: self_evident

The GOP desperately needed coherent and organized talking points throughout the last year, and were nearly left defenseless as the bar was defined and raised by the weasel left - delivery of stockpiles of Iraqi WMD, or else.

Now, either the GOP is performing (still) the rope-a-dope of the century and are sitting on WMD stockpiles or equivalent, or more likely they were left with their pants around their ankles and mouths open. And so were we in their defense. The Bush administration completely lost control of the issue in the public domain.

Of course, there were innumerable reasons to take out Saddam irrespective of WMD, but I wonder did this administration get setup?

And how did they permit the 'discovery of WMD stockpiles' to be allowed to judge all measurement of success in Iraq in the first place? And why didn't they change the premise quickly?

The repair of this public relations disaster is going to be slow and ugly, even with a Bush mandate in November.

I still don't believe they've seized control of the issue, particularly on the world stage.


49 posted on 09/16/2004 2:58:27 PM PDT by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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To: Stallone

Here's a thought I haven't seen posted yet:

Hillary, 2008. (Sorry, I know it is dinner time for some of you out East...).

If we allow that there will be no last minute bait-and-switch candidacy for Hillary this time, or some other October surprise, then Kerry/Edwards loss puts Hillary on the books as the clear leading 'Rat candidate for '08.

So, what do you imagine will be the strategy to oust the GOP then?

Here's my prediction:

Hillary leads an Iran-Contra style smear attack on the Bush administration in the waning years to weaken the nation's GOP appeal leading into '08. Expect an attempt at an impeachment-equivalent scandal to dominate the headlines.

You heard it here, maybe first...

What to do? How do we prevent it?

Really, the ONLY thing that will help is for mainstream media to continue to be diminished, possibly with our help, in the intervening years.

But the 'Rats, on the other hand, will try to reign in the bloggers and bulletin boards, including Free Republic, to once again regain control of the news Pravda-like.

So we might also look for the 'Rats to seize upon or create a Columbine-style national Internet scandal to falsely trumpet and increase the public's desire for control of this forum. We must be ready well in advance!

Comments?


50 posted on 09/16/2004 3:11:57 PM PDT by Stallone (Warrior Freepers Rule The Earth)
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