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MSNBC's Hardball Just Had Dean's Former Campaign Manager Float New "Theory"
Hank All-American | Sep 17, 2004 | Hank All-American

Posted on 09/17/2004 4:58:50 PM PDT by Hank All-American

Dean's former campaign Manager just mentioned a "theory" he heard that the documents were actually made in 1972, but were later scanned, changing the font.

Can you believe how desperate the liberals are? Did it also change the terminology from Air Force to Army? Did it also change the signature? Did it also change the retirement date for General Staudt?

They will never concede the documents are forgeries. This will live on in liberal mythology forever. Like the October Surprise.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: ang; bush; cbs; desperatedems; killian
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To: NeonKnight
LOL...Scanning is the same thing as copying of faxing. It just takes a pic of the doc. It doesn't change spacing. What a maroon.

Actually, you can scan a document as a text file, as opposed to an image. The words in the document are scanned as letters into some type of ASCII file (someone correct me on that if I'm wrong). That way you can actually work with the scanned text on a word processor.

That being said, scanning of a document with the intent of producing a text file generally alters the format of the original document, particularly if the document is old. Individual letters from a typewriter, most of which were probably a Courier font at the time they were typed, and which may be blurred on the original, could show up as anything in the scanned text file.

So where does that leave us? Text scanning will not correct military syntax, it will remove toner blemishes, and it will still require someone to reformat the translational blurbs which inevitably occur when scanning a typewriter document from the Vietnam era.

The scanning theory is utter BS......

101 posted on 09/17/2004 5:59:27 PM PDT by yooper (If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there......)
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To: counterpunch
I agree with you in technical concept - however - any theory on how the OCR did such a fine job copying the handwritten signitures? How about superscripts?

Did the lying Democrap make even the slightest attempt to prove this thoery?

These Democrats are buffoons.

Diva's Husband

102 posted on 09/17/2004 6:00:28 PM PDT by Diva Betsy Ross (It's not Bush's fault... it's the media's fault!)
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To: yooper
If you scan an image, the font won't change. If you OCR scan for text conversion, the signature won't be lifted.

The documents are fakes. They have Killian's purported signature but were generated on MS Word.

103 posted on 09/17/2004 6:03:43 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Dog Gone
Mine makes pencil marks and coffee stains into an alien language.

How do you know they're not forged?

104 posted on 09/17/2004 6:11:18 PM PDT by knak
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To: knak

I licked the coffee stains, and it tasted like Forgers to me.


105 posted on 09/17/2004 6:18:00 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone
LOL, I don't even want to know what they taste like.

Chicken?

106 posted on 09/17/2004 6:21:06 PM PDT by knak
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To: BoBToMatoE
That begs the question, still, where are the originals then? *gasp*

The originals are on somebody's c:/my documents/my forgeries.

107 posted on 09/17/2004 6:33:18 PM PDT by CSW (JFnK was either a coward who ran out or a cad who was run out.)
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To: Hank All-American
Like the October Surprise.

Shhhhh The October surprise is not a myth! Don't out us.

108 posted on 09/17/2004 6:34:39 PM PDT by Nov3 (They knifed babies, They raped girls, They forced children to drink their own urine)
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To: eno_
I was writing hand-crafted PDP-8 assembler to do it.

Wow. I am speechless.
109 posted on 09/17/2004 6:42:44 PM PDT by Mike Fieschko ("Daddy, are there bad men on your planes?")
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To: Dog Gone
I licked the coffee stains, and it tasted like Forgers to me.

"We've quietly replaced Dan Rather's regular Kool-Aid with Forger's CrystalsTM."

110 posted on 09/17/2004 6:46:17 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Hank All-American
How about the theory that a disgruntled and probably unstable individual with a vendetta against George W. Bush forged the memos to "get" the President?

Nah. Much to linear.
111 posted on 09/17/2004 6:52:05 PM PDT by Semi Civil Servant (Edward R. Murrow, call your office.)
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To: Semi Civil Servant

Don't be ridiculous. Clearly, somebody took the original documents and ran them through an optical character reader, converting them to text. Once the text was revisable, he changed the terminology for clarification. Then, he scanned, cropped and added the signatures. Proof that these were actually based on authentic original documents couldn't be clearer.


112 posted on 09/17/2004 7:29:46 PM PDT by Hank All-American (Free Men, Free Minds, Free Markets baby!)
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To: Hank All-American

More Bull Chit.....besides who the Yuck cares....Bush has proven himself as our leader...and nothin's going to stop Nov. 2nd LANDSLIDE....re-election of our President Bush.


113 posted on 09/17/2004 7:32:16 PM PDT by shield (The Greatest Scientific Discoveries of the Century Reveal God!!!! by Dr. H. Ross, Astrophysicist)
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To: Dr. Frank fan
Exactly how does "scanning" a document "change its font"?

It's kind of difficult to explain to non-techies, but it could have happened when Kenneth changed the frequencies.

114 posted on 09/17/2004 7:49:18 PM PDT by ScuzzyTerminator
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To: Diva Betsy Ross
any theory on how the OCR did such a fine job copying the handwritten signitures? How about superscripts?

The mission was to have damning evidence but the master doc did not contain enough 'evidence". So the page was scanned, or one similar to what they wanted so they had a "format" and some language; maybe even a real ANG/Killian one.

So you scan what you have to work with, make your content changes. Now you have a Times Roman word doc. Sloppiness make two kinds of "ths". Some scanned like the typewriter and any additions or corrections made a superscript. You print it out, paste on a copy of the real signature and xerox it 15 times.

115 posted on 09/17/2004 8:23:14 PM PDT by turbocat
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To: VadeRetro
I licked the coffee stains, and it tasted like Forgers to me.

I may get back to you on this one.

116 posted on 09/17/2004 8:24:39 PM PDT by turbocat
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To: Hank All-American

Voodoo politics?


117 posted on 09/17/2004 8:26:33 PM PDT by Thumper1960 ("It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed."-V.I.Lenin)
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To: Hank All-American

This theory suggest the originals exist. Let's run and get the originals - guess what - nobody STILL gives a cat turd.


118 posted on 09/17/2004 8:27:01 PM PDT by IamConservative (A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.)
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To: Hank All-American; Congressman Billybob; Howlin
A scanned document changed the font?

Do they have ANYBODY that works for a living in the democrat community?

Do they understand how utterly STUPID this makes them look?

Do they understand that, if they'd simply have said, at the beginning, "The memo's were re-typed four years ago, and, we're sorry, but the originals no longer exist" ..

They'd HAVE the story they wanted, and they'ed still have their power base. Sure. It would have been (another) lie. But nobody in the MSM would have called them on it!

But Dan Rather was so consumed by hatred, and the democrats and MSM were so stupid, and so consumed by their own self-inflatd images of power .............
119 posted on 09/17/2004 8:30:29 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Kerry's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: VadeRetro
Anything is possible when you don't understand how anything happens.

Excellent!

120 posted on 09/17/2004 8:31:35 PM PDT by Kowdawg
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To: Hank All-American
That's Trippi's theory????

Trippy, man.

121 posted on 09/17/2004 8:34:36 PM PDT by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

[119] Very good analysis.


122 posted on 09/17/2004 8:38:54 PM PDT by Diddley (C'mon Dan. 'fess up.)
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To: Diddley

Thank you, sir.


123 posted on 09/17/2004 8:40:01 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Kerry's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: jayef
Is he talking about some OCR scan of the documents? Here's my question . . . WHY? Again it's the same thing with these morons. They think that because soemone COULD do a thing that that means that possibility can't be closed off. It doesn't matter how ridiculous or how easily it can be demonstrated just how remote or implausible these things are they'll cling to it. It's PATHETIC, is it not?

I could be wrong but I think OJ played golf today.

124 posted on 09/17/2004 8:54:45 PM PDT by LittleRedRooster
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To: VadeRetro
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
125 posted on 09/17/2004 8:59:07 PM PDT by turbocat
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To: turbocat
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
126 posted on 09/17/2004 9:03:26 PM PDT by turbocat
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So, why don't they simply produce a document with a 1970's era typewriter and scan with OCR to show us how this theory works in reality. This should be simple enough.

Oh, because it's impossible!
127 posted on 09/17/2004 9:26:16 PM PDT by DocRock (Why don't the RNC protesters come down here and help clean up after Charley and Frances?)
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To: turbocat
Oh, we can make fun, but Dan's going to forge ahead in pursuit of the real story.
128 posted on 09/18/2004 6:39:13 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: knak

Where's Steven King when you need him? Another best seller coming to you soon.............


129 posted on 09/18/2004 6:45:18 AM PDT by OregonRancher (illigitimus non carborundum)
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To: Hank All-American

They truely belive the American public is THAT STUPID!!


130 posted on 09/18/2004 6:46:42 AM PDT by IC Ken
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To: Hank All-American

It's feasible that the originals were scanned into a OCR (Optical Character Recognition) package which would scan individual characters and substitute modern fonts.

The only reason for doing so, would be to EDIT the document, changing it's content.

Once the content was changed, they are FALSE! Let's see the originals, if they even exist.


131 posted on 09/18/2004 6:49:18 AM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: Dr. Frank fan

I heard this theory too but it was several days earlier by a caller on a talk radio program. The talk show host was not too knowledgeable because there is a simple question to ask when one scans a document and applies OCR (optical character recognition) and that is, why? For the purposes of electronic filing one would scan a document as a picture image or a fax. One would only apply OCR if one intended to modify, manipulate, edit, or otherwise, change the document. No one uses OCR for archiving such documents. So, when you and others hear about OCR just ask, why? Then tell them, all OCR proves is that the documents were indeed corrupted by the process, period.


132 posted on 09/18/2004 6:53:20 AM PDT by Final Authority
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To: TC Rider
"It's feasible that the originals were scanned into a OCR (Optical Character Recognition) package which would scan individual characters and substitute modern fonts."

If anyone has ever used OCR, then I'm sure they also had the occasional change of characters, also. I'm not talking about fonts, but actually changing letters such as "ln" to "h" or "in" to "m" or "cl" to "d". This was common, (at least when I used mine), and I don't see any substituted character indicating an OCR scan. Of course the new theory will be that they corrected them. *yawn* Where's my PJs?
133 posted on 09/18/2004 6:57:46 AM PDT by DocRock (Why don't the RNC protesters come down here and help clean up after Charley and Frances?)
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To: Hank All-American
the documents were actually made in 1972, but were later scanned, changing the font.

They must be true believers that we're all dumb as rocks.

134 posted on 09/18/2004 7:03:09 AM PDT by Heart of Georgia
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To: DocRock
If anyone has ever used OCR, then I'm sure they also had the occasional change of characters, also. I'm not talking about fonts, but actually changing letters such as "ln" to "h" or "in" to "m" or "cl" to "d". This was common, (at least when I used mine), and I don't see any substituted character indicating an OCR scan. Of course the new theory will be that they corrected them. *yawn* Where's my PJs?

I have used OCR through the years and hate it for the same reasons.

Regardless, if they scanned the originals into OCR to change/edit them that still makes them FRAUDS!

Where is the chain of ownership, where are the originals!

For all we know, Burkett found Killian's hand written to-do list for April and decided to flesh it out.

1. Bush needs physical
2. Bush wants transfer to Alabama
3. Call Staudt about golf on Saturday
4. Sugar coat doughnuts for breakfast tomorrow

135 posted on 09/18/2004 7:24:34 AM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: January24th
crumple marks on the PDF

Now this one is interesting:

Has anyone compared all the sets of PDFs to check for crumple marks?

This could tell us a few things, like:

Were the sending, and recieving, fax machines high-end grey-scale machines (or, the recieving machine could have been a fax server).

If the sending OR receiving machines WERE NOT high end grey-scale machines, someone at CBS may have crumpled the documents to "age" them - in which case, CBS is MASSIVELY fAx0rd.

Or, it may be the docs were scanned and emailed, instead of faxed, to CBS, or to an intermediary. That might explain the need to go to Kinkos - they could do they scan, which would almost certainly be a color scan, which would leave the crumple marks in.

Have any bloggers mined this vein yet?

136 posted on 09/18/2004 7:26:58 AM PDT by eno_ (Freedom Lite, it's almost worth defending.)
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