China overtakes United States as top destination for foreign investment

channelnewsasia.com ^ | 23 September 2004 0213 hrs | AFP

[LowCountryJoe]

And then let's get back to answering this:

What else could you have meant. If the only thing that is falling is the dollar then domestic products and domestic ability to consume does not change. If you explain that we are now poorer I can only assume that this means that those foreign goods that we were/are purchasing are costing more and therefore making us poorer (relatively to where we were). In the past, you have ripped foreign goods as crap, no? Did you have a change of heart? Or is it still "crap"? And if it is still crap, then why would we be poorer for buying it with a devalued dollar?

[Destro]

Since they are not made here we have to use more of our income to buy them. That they are cheaper does not make it better.

Gerald Ford wanted his employees to earn enough to be able to buy his cars. I guess we will do alright on Walmart incomes if we shop in Walmarts is your point. No thanks.

[A. Pole]

So, let me get this straight...if the purchasing power of the dollar decreases due to capital outflow and this lowers the real costs of American goods from the point that they were at (in the foreigner's eyes)...and when this creates more exportation of our products because foreigners are now demanding more of our goods..

You try to put a positive spin, but if the other countries are more protectionist and Americans do not have a leading manufacturing anymore the situation will not get any better.

There is no God given right to be number one. Decline of Spanish or English currencies did not restore imperial Spain or England to their former position. What will be left is the debt and private fortunes of free marketeers.

Once upon a time Poland was a great and prosperous state (in XVIc and XVIIc), but arrogance and shortsightness of her elites led Poland to the decline. So Polish poet lamented in 1901 AD:
"Boor, you had the horn of gold, Boor, you had the feathered cap, The wind has carried off the cap, The horn sounds through the forest, And you are left with only the rope."
(Miales chamie zloty sznur, miales chamie czapke z pior, czapke wicher niesie, rog huka po lesie, ostal ci sie ino sznur, ostal ci sie ino sznur")
(Wesele/Wedding by Stanislaw Wyspianski)

[searchandrecovery]

Perhaps America is paying the price for it's bogus public educational system. Or over taxations. Or too many environmental regulatzons. I don't know. But economy good - not many unemployed. Life good for workers.

[Destro]

We have many unemployed - the unemployment figures are for those looking for work but can't find it. Many have fallen from the job seeking ranks and are no longer counted. These are what used to be two income households trying to make by with one income (when just a generation ago one income was all that was needed now two incomes are required to be in the shrinking middle class) or they take low paying jobs off the books.

Education has zero to do with it since when we were an industrial giant of a nation all one needed was a 6th grade education - if that.

There is just so much education that can go around - not everyone can earn a masters. What will we do wwith those that just want to get a job after high school and start a family? Tough luck? MBA's need only apply?

As we increase immigration of unskilled uneducated workers who have no jobs beyond serf like ones?

Sure - lower taxes all you want - but when a manufaturer can pay a Chinaman pennies vs an American wage the tex rate could be zero and the jobs would still flee.

[searchandrecovery]

Well, I actually kind of agree with you. The free trade agreements seem to uniformly screw over the us worker. But the bigger picture seems to me to be "legislation without representation". Who the f knows who these mo's are? Not me. Who knows what corporate agenda they be following? Not me. Too late for Kerry this time (perhaps his major bluner), but hopefully will resonate with the unemployed.

[Destro]

.....we are better off without a middle class anyway - they are too demanding of our politicians and active in public life. The poor have the benefit of shutting up when they get their benefits thus leaving the plutocrats and their bureaucrats to run things as they see fit.

If there is an agenda, that is what I see as the agenda.

[oceanview]

this is no different then many of us have been saying on all the offshoring threads - only to be trash talked by the free trade crowd. the investments in china for the semiconductor industry alone are immense, they will have own the industry in less then 10 years.

but not to worry, we have plenty of lawyers, health care workers, public school teachers, real estate agents, and service industry workers making $8 an hour, competing with legal and illegal immigrants to hold onto those jobs.

[oceanview]

america was once a country where someone with a high school diploma and some vocational training could get a job, afford a home, a car, a wife who did not work, a child - and generally have a middle class life. my father was one of them.

is that true today? even college educated kids are still living at home with their parents in many cases.

[Wolfie]

Europeans must see a lot of money in the land of bondage...

I don't think we want to throw stones at that particular glass house. Been to Wal-Mart lately?

[phil_will1]

tax reform bump

[BrucefromMtVernon]

Didn't Shakespeare say something to the effect: "The first thing we do is kill all the lawyers!"

[Finalapproach29er]

Yep. Nothing changes.

[BrucefromMtVernon]

Whew! At least someone is starting to catch on as to what tariffs are all about! They certainly served the United States Treasury well during the second part of the 19th Century, seeing that there was no income tax during that much-celebrated phase of American economic history. And yes, it is the duty of a sane, sovereign nation-state to defend its developing industries (in part) through tariffs and other regulations.

[Ciexyz]

btt

[Destro]

I will go one more - For democracies to work well you need a yeoman class - i.e. Hoplite or the so called middle class. That is a self sufficient class of people that work but work enough to have some free time to ponder and conduct the affairs of the state.

That should be the only economic policy of a democratic republic. Not looking out for businesses or for business efficency models.

Since in my view a succesful economical system for a democracy maintains or expands the middle class base then the last 30 years as manufacturing declined and teh middle class declined America's economy has been failing.

[BrucefromMtVernon]

America's once-thriving, modern economy has been poisoned by five major toxins: (1) floating exchange rates among currencies, (2) free trade, (3) globalization, (4) privatization, (5) deregulation. Add to this kettle of brew the x-factor of Primitive Accumulation (i.e., we take out of the work force, investment pool and capital goods sector MORE than we put in)....Well, look around and see what's left of the U.S. Economy: a broken-down shell compared to what it was, say, 35+ years ago. The Soviets allowed for Primitive Accumulation in their economic system, a factor which was directly responsible for the fall of Soviet Socialism.

[ApesForEvolution]

Nothing like slitting YOUR OWN throat America...

[applemac_g4]

>China's strong manufacturing industry helped the country
>attract FDI last year worth 53.5 billion dollars, compared
>with 52.7 billion in 2002, the United Nations Conference on
>Trade and Development (UNCTAD) said in its annual report on
>investment flows.
>
>Meanwhile, foreign investment in the United States,
>traditionally the largest recipient of such money, plunged by
>53 percent last year to reach 30 billion dollars, the lowest
>level in 12 years, according to data from UNCTAD's World
>Investment Report 2004.

And it will go lower still. This decrease in demand will be reflected as a decreased demand for the dollar (a weaker dollar, imports becoming more expensive, and therefore inflation at home). It will also be reflected in the Fed forcing up interest rates regardless of the domestic economic situation. Remember, the #1 job of a welfare-state government like ours is to keep its debt servicable, and let the people eat cake.

There are dark skies ahead indeed, and a shell game can only go on for so long.

[LowCountryJoe]

they will have own the industry in less then 10 years.

Do you mean that they'll dump their goods on the market, push all the competition out, monopolize the market for "chips", and then raise prices and gouge the consumers? Think that'll work for China?