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Thin Glaciers Get Thinner in Antarctica
Reuters ^ | 9/24/2004 | Maggie Fox

Posted on 09/24/2004 12:01:10 PM PDT by TChris

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Some of Antarctica's glaciers are melting faster than snow can replace them, enough to raise sea levels measurably, scientists reported on Friday.

Measurements of glaciers flowing into the Amundsen Sea, on the Pacific Ocean side of Antarctica, show they are melting much faster than in recent years and could break up.

And they contain more ice than was previously estimated, meaning they could raise sea level by more than predicted, the international team of researchers writes in the journal Science.

"The ... Amundsen Sea glaciers contain enough ice to raise sea level by 1.3 meters (4 feet)," the researchers wrote in their report.

"Our measurements show them collectively to be 60 percent out of balance, sufficient to raise sea level by 0.24 mm (nearly 0.01 inch) per year," they added.

(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antarctica; climatechange; environmental; environmentalism; environmentalist; glacier; glaciers; globalwarming; globalwarminghoax; meltdown
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To: TChris

An unbiased reporter might write "After thousands of years of abnormally cold weather, global tempretures are gradually warming to their historical norms, causing the polar ice caps to melt and ocean levels to rise to their pre-ice age levels..."


51 posted on 09/24/2004 12:34:28 PM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: Darksheare

well, at least we could see the Yeti try to swim


52 posted on 09/24/2004 12:34:59 PM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (I am not late for Zots, I have stealth Zot capability.....)
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To: Sam Cree

True.
There was the 'mini' ice age that froze the Vikings out of North America, and that ended a couple hundred years later.
So we are due for a warmup and then another ice age.
The only question is how long it will take and what it will look like.
I'm wondering if wacky weather, like what has been the recent experience lately, is the precursor to an Ice Age.
There weren't any records kept 'round the world when the last one hit, so no data to compare exists.
Hmm.
This is out of my scope of ponderment.


53 posted on 09/24/2004 12:36:17 PM PDT by Darksheare (Liberalism is political domestic abuse.)
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To: TChris
Tree Hugging Green-Psychos make me sick with their non-science of our society's greenhouse, CO2 crap about how we're warming the Earth. TOTAL B.S. !!!!!

Anyone with half a brain who has been to the Smithsonian, or bothered to research the thermal history of the Earth would immediately come to the conclusion that every ~hundred million years the Earth cycles up and down in temperature by several degrees. The Earth is significantly cooler than it has been in the past. Overall, as a billion years have passed, the earth is predictably cooling off. You can't stop it, Thermodynamics dictates that heat flows from that which is warmer (the Earth's core) toward the cooler (the cold of space). The Earth is not a perfect thermos bottle.

We just happen to have passed a minimum in the predictable thermal cycle of the Earth. The periodicity of this thermal profile is repeated many times and is fairly constant. The Earth is now warming up to the next minor maximum, which will be by several degrees over the next numerous millenia, BECAUSE IT'S SUPPOSED TO !!!!!!!!!!

And the mass of the earth and power involved in this phenomena is so great that man would have to try pretty damned hard to have any measurable deliterious impact to it at all.

I actually traveled to DC to get numerous photos of the thermal cycle charts to set my beliefs straight, and as a degreed scientist and life member of the American Geophysical Union, I don't think I'm speaking out of my anal orifice, like the majority of these false scientist types who perpetuate the myth that the existence of man is bad to the planet's thermal nature.

Looking at the Earth's planetary thermal cycle through its history, and noting that man has only existed with an ability to modify his environment in the past <100,000 years, and I can't find the least bit of a glitch in the charts to indicate that man even exists on the planet Earth differently than has existed in the previous billions of years.

I hope some of yo out there remember this and perpetuate the facts the next time some anti-mankind idiot in California wants to make a movie about the imaginary disaster "Day after Tomorrow", just remember it's only science FICTION - a fictitious story - get it !!!

Anyone is free to express their opinion, but not everyone who has an opinion in which they feel strongly has a right to be correct. Being correct, or even being taken seriously, is not a right - something our actor classes in California ought to learn.

Otherwise, leave the real science to the real scientists !!!!
54 posted on 09/24/2004 12:36:37 PM PDT by Gary - Peters (Kerry Insecure to relinquish Congrssional Job.)
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To: TChris
I remember watching a documentary about the mid-Atlantic ridge.

Of th four known seismic areas along the ridge, two of them have become active in the last fifty years spewing super heated water around 700o F.

I know the ocean is big and thease regions are very small, but over fifty years they must have some impact.
55 posted on 09/24/2004 12:36:39 PM PDT by HEY4QDEMS
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To: branch1

Read it.
Thanks!


56 posted on 09/24/2004 12:36:39 PM PDT by Darksheare (Liberalism is political domestic abuse.)
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To: pabianice

That's actually a very good movie, more a journalistic procedural than a sci-fi movie as reporters in London try to discover why the weather is getting hotter and hotter and government leaders are stonewalling. Turns out simultaneous Russian and US nuclear tests on opposite sides of the world have wobbled earth out of orbit and it's now circling the drain into the sun.Nonsense, of course, but a good movie nonethless. Featuring a young(er) Leo McKern.


57 posted on 09/24/2004 12:37:35 PM PDT by Heyworth
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To: Zavien Doombringer

LOL!
Give 'em surfboards, bet they could rip a curl like mad.
/ joke.


58 posted on 09/24/2004 12:37:39 PM PDT by Darksheare (Liberalism is political domestic abuse.)
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To: Darksheare
I have been surfing for years...the image of a Bigfoot surfing just made me loose yet another keyboard...

Imagine having a natural wetsuit...I could surf Jersey's SandyHook all year!!!

59 posted on 09/24/2004 12:39:48 PM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (I am not late for Zots, I have stealth Zot capability.....)
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To: TChris

Of course they don't tell you that there is a volcano under that glacier.


60 posted on 09/24/2004 12:42:05 PM PDT by Zathras
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To: TChris
Each year, the global warming subject was raised. The boys' school would print the same old cartoon in their paper, proudly exclaiming that the melting problem could be solved simply by having the local girls' school students sit on the glaciers/icebergs, etc.
61 posted on 09/24/2004 12:42:30 PM PDT by LurkedLongEnough (W+4 = Let Liberty Century Begin)
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To: TChris

So, are saying maybe the west coast could be the western border of Nevada? I knew I liked global warming.


62 posted on 09/24/2004 12:43:54 PM PDT by Casloy
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To: TChris
Here's a test you can do at home to debunk the theory, that when glaciers melt the sea levels rise.

Fill a glass full of ice cubes, then add as much water to it as you can and wait for it to melt. The glass will NOT overflow. It's all about displacement and gases in ice.
63 posted on 09/24/2004 12:45:09 PM PDT by RetSignman (Forever Optimistic Never Complacent)
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To: Paradox

---
Actually, it will increase, these are ANTARCTIC Glaciers, which means they are on LAND. They are not currently displacing the oceans.
---
Except that their weight does cause the landmass to sink. I have never seen any studies on how much the continent of Antarctica will rise when relieved of trillions and trillions of tons of ice.

Of course, the weather patterns that are causing the glaciers to flow at an increased rate may also wind up causing the snowfall over Antarctica to increase significantly as well.


64 posted on 09/24/2004 12:45:39 PM PDT by frgoff
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To: Zavien Doombringer

Sorry about the keyboard!
I guess you shouldn't see the MTV2 Video Mods where they have the game SSX 3 snowboarding.. and they have a band member from one of the bands featured in said dementia rendered as a Yeti complete with dancing skeletons.
I forget the band name, and they don't have all the video mods listed on their site yet..
*grr*


65 posted on 09/24/2004 12:48:16 PM PDT by Darksheare (Liberalism is political domestic abuse.)
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To: RetSignman

How much of the Glaciers is above water and not at water level. So much for your displacement theory.
We are skating on thin ice- Reason, your guess is as good as mine. It appently has happened millions of years ago and will probably happen again.


66 posted on 09/24/2004 12:49:26 PM PDT by snakeoil (A+Bert)
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To: TChris
Thankfully the planet is only 100 years old and we know everything there is to know about it's cycles.

Thankfully.

I think that maybe, just maybe someone has too much time on their hands and or can't handle getting a real job or just simply researching something they can hope to have some real insight into.

Now if they could tell me how to get rid of all the spam in my inbox -- that -- would be something.
67 posted on 09/24/2004 12:53:15 PM PDT by four more in O 4 (God Bless George Bush and God Bless YOU.)
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To: Zavien Doombringer

Some of the Antarctic and Greenland glaciers are coming off land rather than forming in water.


68 posted on 09/24/2004 12:54:52 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
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To: TChris

It's about time. My office is freezing.


69 posted on 09/24/2004 12:55:02 PM PDT by Serb5150 (Look at me! I don't need subtitles!)
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To: snakeoil
Two thirds is under water because of weight, as the one third melts, the glacier rises and IT will melt.
Now about the gases?
70 posted on 09/24/2004 12:55:43 PM PDT by RetSignman (Forever Optimistic Never Complacent)
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To: RetSignman

Belch!


71 posted on 09/24/2004 12:58:44 PM PDT by snakeoil (A+Bert)
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To: TChris
"The ... Amundsen Sea glaciers contain enough ice to raise sea level by 1.3 meters (4 feet),"

Cool! Four foot isn't very deep.
Even little short people (5'2") can wade through that without getting on their little tippy toes.
Besides, I'm kinda curious about what's been under those glaciers all these years.
Maybe the Discovery Channel will run a new documentary about it.
This could save an awful lot of digging!

72 posted on 09/24/2004 12:59:21 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Alan Go!!!)
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To: Willie Green

You too?
I've wanted to know what's under the ice near lake Vostok.
Especially since the lake's currents apparently are driven by thermal vents of one kind or another.
Or so a Scientific American article guessed a couple years back.


73 posted on 09/24/2004 1:01:14 PM PDT by Darksheare (Liberalism is political domestic abuse.)
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To: Willie Green

Jimmy Hoffa?


74 posted on 09/24/2004 1:01:51 PM PDT by erikm88 (9/11 and Pearl Harbor have changed the face of America forever -- Never forget...)
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To: four more in O 4

This is great. All it takes is a bit of babbling froma neurotic enviro-liberal who thinks (s)he can save the earth or make a difference. Isn't that cute ?

But it brings out the few scientists on line who set the matter straight.

Ever try to argue with one of these green-psychos with real facts, science, mechanics. Those were the "bio" majors we went to school with who couldn't handle the rigors of the hard science and math.

You can't argue scientificaly with a green-psycho, they only yell back louder. The weight of the truth is wasted on them. Their coalition is as grouped for political liberal effect as it is concerned about real environmental science.

Just watch their eyes glaze over and roll back into their heads as you speak a little something simple like Newton's exponential law of cooling.


75 posted on 09/24/2004 1:02:05 PM PDT by Gary - Peters (Kerry Insecure to relinquish Congrssional Job.)
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To: Puppage
And, Johnny's get'n laaaarger

Thank you, I really needed a laugh, took me almost 50 post to get-up out of the floor to reply though.

76 posted on 09/24/2004 1:03:31 PM PDT by phil1750 (Love like you've never been hurt;Dance like nobody's watching;PRAY like it's your last prayer)
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To: phil1750
My pleasure. Have a great weekend.

Pete

77 posted on 09/24/2004 1:05:06 PM PDT by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: erikm88
Jimmy Hoffa?

Maybe.
But that'd be a pretty disappointing anti-climax.
If they find him there, I'd hope they keep it secret just to keep people guessing.
I'm hoping they find something MUCH more exciting than Jimmy.
Maybe something like a Stargate! Now THAT would be cool!

78 posted on 09/24/2004 1:12:40 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Alan Go!!!)
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To: TChris

More Fear mongering.

But think of the good benefits, like homesteading in Greenland!


79 posted on 09/24/2004 1:21:18 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Labyrinthos

Someone needs to help me here with the exact numbers -- but I took my family on a trip to the Canadian Rockies several years ago and we walked out to the Athabasca ice fields and glacier. They have monuments in the ground to show how much the ice has been melting and receding for many years. Help me here -- is it about 150 or 160 years or so? At any rate, the ice has been melting steadily for a long time, and long before automobiles started making greenhouse gasses.


80 posted on 09/24/2004 1:23:19 PM PDT by Designed
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To: Designed

Why let the facts get in the way of a good story.


81 posted on 09/24/2004 1:27:52 PM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: RightWhale
I understand that...

Even with that, the water level still wouldn't rise, but level out to the lower land area.

82 posted on 09/24/2004 1:33:12 PM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (I am not late for Zots, I have stealth Zot capability.....)
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To: Darksheare
It'd be great if we ended up in another ice age.

It would not be great, because it would almost certainly mean widespread human death. Global warming, by contrast, would make the Earth generally more hospitable to life than it is now, as evidenced by the fossil record.

It has long been my opinion that the observed changes in Earth's climate are due to changes in the sun.

83 posted on 09/24/2004 1:37:37 PM PDT by Physicist
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To: TChris

think of the ocean like a glass of coke with ice. if they ice melts does the glass overflow? neither will the atlantic.


84 posted on 09/24/2004 1:43:18 PM PDT by q_an_a
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To: Physicist

True, but another ice age would shut the global warming fanatics up.
Especially the really strident greens here in NY that claim that SUV's are evil and no-one should own one, and then drive home in their SUVs..
*chuckle*


85 posted on 09/24/2004 1:43:38 PM PDT by Darksheare (Liberalism is political domestic abuse.)
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To: Physicist

D'oh!
You notice that the climate 'norms' seem to shift eastward, like the monsoon rains that used to hit certain parts of Africa in historic past are no longer hitting there?
Wonder why exactly that would seem to be.

Probably all driven by the sun, since it's output isn't constant.
And Earth's orbit itself varies slightly, sometimes more circular than other times.
(Supposedly according to mid 80's science classes.)

With variables such as solar output and Earth's natural cycles, how can anyone seriously say that mankind can effect climate?
(Short of destroying most of the planet in nuclear conflict?)


86 posted on 09/24/2004 1:47:49 PM PDT by Darksheare (Liberalism is political domestic abuse.)
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To: TChris
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Some of Antarctica's glaciers are melting faster than snow can replace them, enough to raise sea levels measurably, scientists reported on Friday.

Measurements of glaciers flowing into the Amundsen Sea, on the Pacific Ocean side of Antarctica, show they are melting much faster than in recent years and could break up.

Ah, more of the usual crap from journalists who know squat about any of the physical sciences. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but the continental landmass of Antarctica is below freezing all year - it's just even nastier in the winter. Now, the ice does flow and it's possible that it's flowing faster than it is accumulating, which would say more about patterns of moisture and precipitation than it would about temperature.

If they continue to flow into the ocean faster than they're accumulating, then that would represent a net gain of water volume to the ocean, which would could increase sea levels if not balanced out somewhere else. Call me skeptical, though, but these appear to be pretty short-term observations, there may be cycles in play that we don't know about, and it has yet to be proven that there is any such thing as global warming caused by a "greenhouse effect" - a colourfull metaphor which doesn't accurately describe the physical processes at work.

87 posted on 09/24/2004 1:49:52 PM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: Zavien Doombringer

For the land-based ice the land under the glacier would rebound. However, land is about 3X the density of water so it would rebound about 1/2 as much as the volume of ice melted and the bed of the oceans would subside 1/2 as much as the water would rise. This would increase the volume of water in the oceans more than the ocean bed would equally accomodate. So the ocean will rise, not to the full volume of the ice, but to about 1/2 the volume of the ice. Floating ice when it melted would not have an effect on ocean level, as you noted.


88 posted on 09/24/2004 1:58:17 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
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To: Gary - Peters
Maybe it's not just a thermodynamic cycle.
A few years back, I was in a museum and noticed a correlation between ice ages and certain animal populations. In particular, the recent "mini ice age" started about the time that whale hunting took off. The recent ban on whaling correlates with the recent "global warming". IMHO, an important contribution to global warming is an overlooked greenhouse gas: Whale farts.
The solution to global warming: Kill all the whales. Perhaps by feeding them Jane Fonda.
89 posted on 09/24/2004 2:01:26 PM PDT by Ragnar54
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To: pepperdog


"the once hot and fiery caldera on MT St, Helens is now covered in 600 feet of ice"

pepperdog wrote:
Really? Are you joking or is it really snow cover now??


yes ice....

From: USFS Volcano Review, Summer 2002, contribution by Charlie Anderson, Director of the International Glaciospeleological Survey

In the unique laboratory of Mount St. Helens, scientists that study glaciers and glacier caves are observing and documenting a newly formed glacier. Over the last 21 years, snow, ice and rock debris have accumulated behind the Lava Dome to an average depth of 100 meters (325 feet) thick. The snow has been stacking higher each year compressing the past years' snow into a dense crystalline ice body, as deep as 190 meters (600 feet). Giant cracks in the ice, called crevasses, and other flow features, indicate that the ice body is transforming into a glacier. Scientists, known as Glaciospeleologists, have been studying the movement and growth of the glacier as it creeps around both sides of the Lava Dome, flowing north.

http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/MSH/Glaciers/description_msh_glaciers.html


90 posted on 09/24/2004 3:40:10 PM PDT by seastay
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To: TChris; abbi_normal_2; Ace2U; adam_az; Alamo-Girl; Alas; alfons; alphadog; amom; AndreaZingg; ...
Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.
91 posted on 09/24/2004 6:12:36 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
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To: farmfriend

>>by 0.24 mm (nearly 0.01 inch) per year," they added.<<
1/100th of an inch! Wow that's drastic!


92 posted on 09/24/2004 6:55:14 PM PDT by B4Ranch (´´Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the people´s liberty´s teeth.)
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To: TChris
Next thing you know, those loosers will be saying we are having an increased number of hurricanes striking Florida.
93 posted on 09/24/2004 6:57:55 PM PDT by Doe Eyes (Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life.)
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To: Alberta's Child
In addition, water is the only substance on earth that contracts as it melts.

Except for bismuth.

94 posted on 09/24/2004 7:40:11 PM PDT by Dan Evans
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To: TChris

BenchMark Glaciers (US)

Wolverine, Alaska 1966-2003 .2 meter net loss
Gulkana, Alaska 1966-2003 .02 " " "
South Cascade, 1953-2002 .55 " " GAIN
Washington State

3 Glacier Mass Balance Summary, USGS

s


95 posted on 09/24/2004 8:01:23 PM PDT by SouthTexas
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To: farmfriend

BTTT!!!!!!!


96 posted on 09/25/2004 3:07:33 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: Doe Eyes; farmfriend
Four hurricanes in one year in Florida??? Still MORE proof of the truth of global warming, and FURTHER evidence of Bushes' (George AND Jeb) failing that state, AND America...!!!

/sarcasm

SOS..."same old ...er...'stuff'..."

97 posted on 09/25/2004 9:55:47 AM PDT by Seadog Bytes (OPM* - The Liberal solution to all of society's problems. (*...Other Peoples' Money))
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To: Zavien Doombringer

Yes, but that doesn't work for Antartica because the ice there is allready sitting on mountain tops.


98 posted on 09/25/2004 8:54:36 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (God is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: Zavien Doombringer

P.S. But you are correct, floating ice will not raise the level of the water. If anything, it will decrease because water takes up more volume when it is frozen.


99 posted on 09/25/2004 8:56:38 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (God is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: TChris
"Democrats trolling for the Clueless vote" BUMP !!
100 posted on 09/25/2004 8:57:50 PM PDT by HP8753 (Bypass Online News Sites Registration>>>> www.bugmenot.com)
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