Posted on 09/29/2004 8:36:42 PM PDT by Murtyo
Sometimes I think God should have put an "off" button inside every human being for when things just go off the scale in term of savagery commited against one's person. I don't know about other people but death doesn't particularly scare me. It is the pain to a lesser extent and the loss of control in particular that I think would be the most difficult to deal with.
Anyways, we should send our prayers to this man and his family.
Good point. However, in my opinion the most honorable thing is to be an example without condemning those who fail.
you talking to me?
Let me rephrase that.
WHAT HE HECK ARE YOU ON A DISCUSSION BOARD FOR???
Yeah, if things were perfect and we weren't faced with this sort of enemy. But without shame in the alternative, more people fail. 'Doing the honorable thing' gets harder when the alternative is 'OK'. It give the enemies of the West hope if we are OK with our failure.
These are tough times. We have to be strong, and if we can't always be strong, we can at least value strength above weakness.
Moral failure is no longer an option. It's unfortunate, but perhaps that's the difference between war and peacetime...
I understand. Thank you for your perspective. Certainly those people who have acted heroically should be remembered and help up as examples.
They know that they are going to kill him.
They just want to humiliate him and his family first.
That's exactly right. And when they do slaughter him the public will turn around and say what an evil man that Mr. Blair is. It's a win win for the beasts. I know the family is very concerned about his poor man, but they are acting disgraceful by siding with the beasts who have already slaughtered Mr. Bigley's co-workers. I've posted this a couple of times, but here it is again. It's from another thread and FReeper--a FReeper in Ireland:
The relatives of this poor man are on every news bulletin and condemning the US as much as they can. I understand that they will do anything to release Mr Bigley, but this pandering is music to every terrorist - blame Bush and Blair. There was a muslime on a radio show discussing the kidnapping with the brother of Mr. Bigley. The terrorist supporter openly admitted on radio that he 'rejoiced' on 9-11 and spoke at length how these beheadings are justified. This was on mainstream radio in the early afternoon! The brother of Mr. Bigley stated that he agreed with everything that the scumbag was saying!
because we're on a discussion/news board - there are stories from all kinds of sources here. Some of them you won't like, or I won't like, some of them have lies of ommission, some direct lies, that's the whole point of this board - for people who believe in freedom to discuss things, including things YOU don't argee with.
I was shouting for two reasons - you accussed me of "spreading propaganda" - a personal attack - because you seem to want to stop people talking about certain things here, or to stop certain points of view here.
And you don't seem to get the purpose of this site. There's a war going on and we're not supposed to talk about what's happening, we're not supposed to be aware of what the enemy in this war is up to??
The world is messy, you won't always agree with everything you read, heck I go nuts listening to NPR or trying to read a NY Times story, and sometimes they cross the line but this is a Free Country, a Free Republic and that gives people the right to write and it gives the rest of us the right to read it and comment on it.
This is enemy propaganda. Something they fully intend to be broadcast for its effect on opinion within the west. Carefully chosen, in fact, for its likely effects on that opinion - just not by you. You are spreading it. Note that the English word "spreading" is distinct from the English word "composing", and in this context distinguishes between rebroadcasting something planted by others and planting it in the first place.
Yes there is a war going on. You can certainly talk about what is happening. Now, if your talk about what was happening consisted in reports of friendly force movements, I'd come in here and post "loose lips sink ships. Thank you." And everyone would know why.
Naturally, such admonitions are meant for people who do not notice the full consequences of what they are doing, precisely because there is a war going on. Whether you, or other readers of such a thread. There would be no point in talking to people who would not care about those consequences when they are pointed out to them, or who actively seek them. The assumption is that does not cover the entire readership of these boards.
It has nothing to do with agreeing with what I read, or not. Our enemies, men pledged to destroy our country, and to reverse its policies precisely where those policies are in our interests rather than theirs, broadcast propaganda at us. It is one of their principle means of warfare. It is a means of warfare, as surely as shooting bullets to keep heads down while someone scoots from A to B.
The item reported on is a carefully scripted production made under conditions of absolute enemy control. It is specifically designed to show only the impression they wish to leave, directed at definite audiences within the west. Whether you are part of that intended audience is an open question. But they certainly designed it with their own, not with our, interests in mind. They might be idiots. Their propaganda might be ineffective. But it would certainly be ineffective if it were not broadcast.
And you are broadcasting it. It is their propaganda. In wartime, that is practically always a bad idea. Also, in this particular case you are broadcasting a bit of enemy propaganda that happens to be obscene, by design. Broadcasting the humanly obscene is rarely a good idea under any circumstances.
I tell you these things precisely because I suppose they might matter to you. They also might matter to other readers of the thread. The reason why it might matter ought to be obvious - it is unlikely to be in our interests in the war, when it is calculated by our enemies to be in theirs. If I thought point this out would not matter to anyone here, I wouldn't bother.
Please stop broadcasting obscene enemy propaganda in wartime. Thank you.
Here is what I posted, it's news that's widely available. It's got an angle; it written, evidently, by westerners. I think you're way off on your accusations - "Propaganda" is a loaded word. This may not be a straight news piece, but show me something that is.
People who read this board, people like me who pay for this service, are interested in "news" and opinion from all sources, even enemy sources. We're not a bunch of CNN Headline News watching Dan Rather believing idiots. We're, for the most part, very familiar with the news and that all organisations and individuals bring their "bias" to it. We're capable of reading things like this in context. It least I am. Here's the article again, just incase you were reading something else
New video shows caged captive pleading with 'uncaring' Blair
Irish Independent, Dublin ^ | Sept 30 2004 | Daniel McGrory and Philip Webster
Posted on 09/29/2004 8:36:42 PM PDT by Murtyo
THE family of Kenneth Bigley again made an appeal to his captors for his freedom last night after they released a new video showing him chained inside a cage and pleading with British Prime Minister Tony Blair for help.
Huddling in the corner of a cage, Mr Bigley (62) is heard saying: "Please, please, help me. I'm begging you, Mr Blair, I'm begging you to speak, to push."
The cage is barely wider than his shoulders and no more than a few feet high, and a heavy chain is running around his neck and hands, binding him to the bars.
Although the grainy footage appeared to confirm his brother Paul's reports that he had received news that Mr Bigley was still alive, officials pointed out that it was not possible to confirm when the film had been made.
"Tony Blair is lying. He doesn't care about me. I'm just one person," Mr Bigley said, looking exhausted and unshaven, at times clasping his head in his hands.
The video was clearly designed to add to the pressure on Mr Blair, but the message from the British government last night was that Mr Blair would not change his hardline stance against negotiating with terrorists, despite claims that the Italian government had brokered a deal to free two of its hostages.
Mr Bigley's family said last night that while they are distressed at seeing him in this state, it was "heartening" proof he is still alive.
His younger brother, Paul Bigley, said: "If Mr Blair still doesn't budge it will be the kiss of death for Ken. We don't have long."
Hours earlier Paul Bigley told how he had received a statement from the Tahwid wal Jihad group claiming they did not want to kill their hostage.
They say the British public should force Tony Blair to act to save the Liverpool-born engineer.
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