Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Measure could block Kennewick Man study
Seattle Post Intelligencer via AP ^ | October 1, 2004 | Matthew Daly

Posted on 10/01/2004 7:12:56 PM PDT by Bernard Marx

WASHINGTON -- Scientists hoping to study the ancient skeleton known as Kennewick Man are protesting a bill by Colorado Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell that they say could block their efforts.

A two-word amendment would change an Indian graves-protection law to allow federally recognized tribes to claim ancient remains even if they cannot prove a link to a current tribe.

Scientists say the bill, if enacted, could have the effect of overturning a federal appeals court ruling that allowed them to study the 9,300-year- old bones.

(Excerpt) Read more at seattlepi.nwsource.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Miscellaneous; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: amendment; archaeology; campbell; clovis; dna; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; indiangraves; kennewick; kennewickman; mtdna; preclovis; precolumbian
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-71 next last
To: yankeedame
My,my, I just can't imagine what these "Native Americans"[sic!] find so reverential* about this 9+k year old mummy discovered in the sands of in-land Washington state.

It has nothing to do with reverence. They are scared to death that it will turn out to be a race other than American Indians. This would suggest that the current batch of American Indians committed genocide against the previous inhabitants of North America.

21 posted on 10/01/2004 8:41:48 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Bernard Marx
Who Were The Si-Te-Cah?
22 posted on 10/01/2004 8:48:45 PM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

"I used to not care about this. Now I am getting curious as to just what it is people are trying to hide"

It's quite simple, really. Northwest American Indians are trying to hide the fact that when they came to the continent it was already populated by a caucasian tribe from whom they took the land, and who they wiped out.

IOW, they are the same as the European explorers and colonists who returned the favor centuries later.


23 posted on 10/01/2004 8:50:25 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

What they are trying to hide is the skeleton is caucasion.


24 posted on 10/01/2004 8:51:32 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (What did Kerry know and when did he know it?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
It's also possible that it's just a religious matter. Many Indians believe that it's wrong to dig up their dead ancestors and display them in museums, and you can't really blame them for that"

You can't, I can.

25 posted on 10/01/2004 9:12:12 PM PDT by norton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: ModelBreaker

There are significant implications for all of the entitlements that American Indians now get, if it can be proven that they are not the original inhabitants. A good lawyer could make hay out of it.

Consider this... their entitlements are entirely based on race. If they are found to have derived from Caucasian as well as Mongol or other sources, the proper court case could "Jeopardize their Satanding"... after all, nobody has yet managed to deicide whether someone who is half Jewish is really Jewish or German OOPS EXCUSE ME... Wrong National-Socialist country here - I meant to say, whether someone who is half Black is really Black or American... Or rather, actually what I'm trying to say is -

I think I better shut up now


26 posted on 10/01/2004 9:24:45 PM PDT by fire_eye (Socialism is the opiate of academia.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
It's just possible that Kennewick Man might provide evidence that people of a different racial background were here in America before the Indians crossed the Bering Straits.

Which time? We all came over in waves - there wasn't like one big migration, but many over the course of thousands of years - My own people have been here for 10,000 years.

I personally think its unfortunate that the Washington tribes are not allowing study of the remains, but I also find it unfortunate that indian-haters (and I'm not saying that you are one - not an accusation) are trying to use it for nefarious purposes...

27 posted on 10/01/2004 9:35:14 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (How do you ask a hamster to be the last hamster to die for a mistake?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: ModelBreaker
This would suggest that the current batch of American Indians committed genocide against the previous inhabitants of North America.

Wow! You can tell all that from one 9300 year old set of remains? Wow! You ARE good!

28 posted on 10/01/2004 9:38:54 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (How do you ask a hamster to be the last hamster to die for a mistake?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Chad Fairbanks; Cicero
I personally think its unfortunate that the Washington tribes are not allowing study of the remains, but I also find it unfortunate that indian-haters (and I'm not saying that you are one - not an accusation) are trying to use it for nefarious purposes...

Then just what are you saying, Chad? Who are the "indian-haters" and what are their "nefarious purposes?"

29 posted on 10/01/2004 9:40:39 PM PDT by Bernard Marx (I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Bernard Marx

Well, people who, without one single trace of evidence, state as fact that indians committed genocide against earlier caucasian inhabitants, for example.

The bottomline is, look through ANY American Indian related thread on this board, and you will see the hatred. Just open your eyes.

The nefarious purposes? Why, they would like to do away with every treaty, agreement, and everything else. Ya know, renege on legally, constitutionally binding agreements because they are just "race-based entitlements" etc...


30 posted on 10/01/2004 9:43:53 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (How do you ask a hamster to be the last hamster to die for a mistake?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: ModelBreaker
This would suggest that the current batch of American Indians committed genocide against the previous inhabitants of North America.

Or maybe American Indians just had better survival skills than this so-far ficticious race that people are hoping and prayer were here before.

31 posted on 10/01/2004 9:44:47 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (The police never think it's as funny as you do.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet

Well, I say let these people go crazy about a set of 9300 year old bones. Big deal. We have one set of bones that MIGHT be caucasian... If, as is being said, we indians committed genocide against earlier white people, one would think (call me crazy here) we'd find a heck of a lot more sets of remains, wouldn't you? I mean, where are the other hundreds of thousands of sets of remains of earlier caucasians that we supposedly displaced? Where?


32 posted on 10/01/2004 9:48:22 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (How do you ask a hamster to be the last hamster to die for a mistake?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Chad Fairbanks

(Somewhat rhetorical question to start:)

Why did the U.S. Government enter into treaties - which I feel we should honor, because I don't believe you renege on a deal, unlike a lot of folks, apparently - with American Indians? I don't see why "Kennewick Man", should he turn out to be what people are wishing for, would change one thing about the circumstances under which our government made agreements with the tribes.


33 posted on 10/01/2004 9:53:08 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (The police never think it's as funny as you do.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Nowhere Man

The bottom line here...is if you are a researcher, and come across suspicious bones from now on...you take them to your study quietly and don't report nothing until the final report is conclusive. It may be bad ethics...but looking at how the federal government has gotten itself involved in the control of bones...its the only way. And one can be sure of one thing. If the Kennewick dude was around...he's got relatives who were here, and their bones will eventually be found...and we won't repeat this performance with the government laws.


34 posted on 10/01/2004 9:54:27 PM PDT by pepsionice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
Oh, and another funny thing - Here's what National Park Service Chief Archaeologist Francis P. McManamo had to say about Kennewick Man:

His ancestors almost certainly were Asian. These distant ancestors were part of the initial movement of people from northeastern Asia that gradually crossed the Bering Land Bridge or paddled along its shoreline when the land bridge was exposed, thousands of years before their descendent lived along the Columbia River. Other relatives of these same distant ancestors of Kennewick Man moved south into what is now Japan, coastal China, and onto the islands of the Pacific."

So far, EVERY study up to now about Kennewick Man shows him to be culturally Asian - Anthropologists were also excited because the skeleton was 90 per cent complete and had unusual features differing from those of Europeans or modern native Americans.

Shortly after the discovery, a select group of government scientists were allowed to study the remains. They concluded that Kennewick Man's ancestors came from Japan, Polynesia or south-east Asia.

35 posted on 10/01/2004 9:56:51 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (How do you ask a hamster to be the last hamster to die for a mistake?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Chad Fairbanks
I agree the genocide accusation is a giant leap with no evidence. But if the Kennewick or other remains prove to be non-Indian it would certainly muddy Indian claims to be the "first Americans." Maybe the Siberian immigrants lived in peace with the [possible] earlier North American inhabitants, maybe not. I'll wait for evidence on all counts.

But political interference with the scientific investigation of the evidence doesn't pass the smell test. Maybe there are some nefarious motives on both sides of the issue. I don't see all the Indian threads but I don't recall anyone suggesting the abrogation of treaties and agreements.

36 posted on 10/01/2004 9:58:01 PM PDT by Bernard Marx (I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet

It wouldn't - except, as shown above, people are really hoping a slick lawyer could change that.

However, what people continuously fail to mention is one simple fact - The scientists WERE allowed to stufdy the remains after they were found, and EVERY conclusion was of someone who was NOT Caucasian and not a MODERN American Indian - they were of Asian ancestry. Period. End of story.

However, because some stupid clay modelling done that made Kennewick Man look like Patrick Stewart, some people decided it must have been a white guy who was killed by newly-arriving indians blah blah blah...

People can be ignorant about some things, is the bottm line.


37 posted on 10/01/2004 10:00:17 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (How do you ask a hamster to be the last hamster to die for a mistake?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Bernard Marx
But if the Kennewick or other remains prove to be non-Indian it would certainly muddy Indian claims to be the "first Americans."

My point is, so what? Such findings would impact bragging rights, but little else. It is completely irrelevant, as far as I can see, to the agreements our government made with American Indian tribes. Some people here seem to be arguing that it would change everything.

I don't see why.

38 posted on 10/01/2004 10:04:19 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (The police never think it's as funny as you do.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Chad Fairbanks
It wouldn't - except, as shown above, people are really hoping a slick lawyer could change that.

It's completely irrelevant to our government's relationship with American Indians. It annoys me to see people advancing the notion that we should go back on our part of an agreement based on some junk like this.

39 posted on 10/01/2004 10:05:57 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (The police never think it's as funny as you do.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Bernard Marx
I agree the genocide accusation is a giant leap with no evidence. But if the Kennewick or other remains prove to be non-Indian it would certainly muddy Indian claims to be the "first Americans." Maybe the Siberian immigrants lived in peace with the [possible] earlier North American inhabitants, maybe not. I'll wait for evidence on all counts.

I think we may be on similar pages here. AS an American Indian who's people have lived here for over 10,000 years, I don't have any vested interest in proving whether anyone was here first, or second etc... That doesn't define who I am.

There were waves of migrations to this continent - over thousands of years, varoius groups came here and passed through the northwest on their way to other places. Some stayed, some didn't. Not all of those groups are going to be the same. There is a huge difference between those arriving cultures, and those cultures that developed here.

Kennewick man wasn't what we would consider a modern American Indian - cultures and people change after thousands of years - but he was an ancestor, most certainly. He was of Asian stock, based on all the studies. So, he doesn't really prove anything, other than that 9300 years ago there was a guy here with asian ancestry.

But political interference with the scientific investigation of the evidence doesn't pass the smell test. Maybe there are some nefarious motives on both sides of the issue.

I'm sure there are. However, I think there is a valid point that having on'es ancestor dug up and studied kinda sucks if you think about it... Other than that, they have no valid reason to stop the studies...

I don't see all the Indian threads but I don't recall anyone suggesting the abrogation of treaties and agreements.

It happened even in this thread... not by you, but by others...

40 posted on 10/01/2004 10:06:29 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (How do you ask a hamster to be the last hamster to die for a mistake?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-71 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson