Skip to comments.DEM FLASHED 'WRITE' STUFF AT DEBATE (KERRY PULLED OUT A BLACK PEN?)
Posted on 10/03/2004 11:56:26 PM PDT by kattracks
October 4, 2004 -- Was John Kerry trying to pull something at the debate last week?
That question was burning up the Internet yesterday after a slo-mo review of the footage showed the Massachusetts senator taking an object out of his right pocket before the first question.
Was it a cheat sheet as some conservative bloggers claimed or was it something innocuous?
Either way, it would violate the debate rules agreed to by both campaigns: "No props, notes . . . or other tangible things may be brought into the debate."
Many blogs offered links to the "Pocket-gate" footage. One, INDC Journal, even posted frame-by-frame stills purporting to show Kerry pulling out a notecard and placing it onto the podium.
But the mystery was solved when The Post reviewed a Fox News Channel feed from Thursday's debate: Kerry pulled out . . . a black pen.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
Great point! The Post really blew it on this, IMHO.
But in the case of a pen the glare is more likely to look like a white off-of-square parallogram or rhombus since the human hand usually doesn't move in just one direction in space.
Since pens are also a violation of the debate rules, the Kerry campaign should have said the white shape was just a goofy shirt sleeve cuff.
If you go thru hi res freeze frames of th efootage there is a split second where kerry placing whatever he had gotten out of his jacket with his left hand on the podium, that he raises his right hand onto the podium too.
I wish someone had a good clip of this.
Even if, for some reason, you discount the items he is either holding in one hand or pulling out of his coat... you can see him holding it afterwards. There's also a neat little "flip" action right before shuffles it down onto the podium. Either a flip notebook, cell phone, or PDA. Take your pick. Any of those sink him.
I haven't seen any "faked photos." Drudge doesn't mention anything either.
The only "fake" is Kerry's debating technique.
And even Seinfeld's "puffy pirate shirt" didn't have sleeves that big.
Kerry reached into his pocket as he turned his back to the audience. It was a practiced move. If there hadn't been cameras to the rear of him, he would have gotten away with it.
That is definitely not a
pen. Unless it's a new kind that unfolds
Great minds think alike... :-)
And also i just remembered one of my bad ass friends in junior high used to roll crib notes up inside pens and sneak them into tests that way.
A pen could be more than just a pen.
Which is why no one was allowed to bring any in with them.
I'm not a dude, and I did read the article. My point is the same as yours -- Kerry wasn't allowed to bring him own pen in, but the Post ignored that part of the agreeement.
In these photos from Drudge you can clearly see Kerry's cuff before he pulls whatever it was from his pocket.
Now take a look at the photo from Jeff head's post.
that is definitely NOT Kerry's sleeve/cuff.
no,, that was in the article ,, read this from the article's paragraph below and tell me they didn't mention that even the pen was illegal to use,, THE POST---,,,Was it a cheat sheet as some conservative bloggers claimed or was it something innocuous? Either way, it would violate the debate rules agreed to by both campaigns: "No props, notes . . . or other tangible things may be brought into the debate." ................ I hope it was an encyclopedia,, maybe the Enquirer is buying a closeup photo,, I hope so,,, after the Sandy Burgler episode I don't put anything out of bounds for those guys.
I think this debate about the pen is funny. What I think is funnier is that people here and especially at DU think that Kerry winning a debate, and getting a bump as people consider the new guy, actually think that means Kerry can win.
It wasn't a pen, or a piece of paper. It was the little bell he uises to signal his peanut butter butler, ok??
that white square is well above the lecturn,, he surely wouldn't have lifted cheat notes up that high,, and someone out of the hundreds of photographers have to have a closeup of that,, somebody needs to come forward,,
But the thing they're quoting specifically mentioned pens, and they left that out of the article:
"Each candidate must submit to the staff of the Commission prior to the debate all such paper and any pens or pencils with which a candidate may wish to take notes during the debate, and the staff or commission will place such paper, pens and pencils on the podium..."
So the New York Post, of all media outlets, misses the story.
exactly,, someone has to come over a non faked photo that really means something until then Bush still wins,,,,,,,
He can almost put his face to his groin...
he is well balanced...
he fears no obstacle..
he shows power in style....
he is manly....
..uhhhh...well sort of manly....
No make that manly!
He likes really really likes oranges
So much that he likes to look like one!
Just like the Oompa Loompas!
And he is racially sensitive....
Or maybe just sensitive to comrade Jane?
He can even flip flop on his race...He is way cool..He`s Irish when in Massachussets, he`s Jewish when in New York and now he`s a brother! Next week maybe he`ll be Asian!
And he is an expert on the John F. Kennedy patent bent back posture-thumb-index finger fist gesture...Wow, he is just like JFK! He even has the same initials! He even has the same haircut! Oh I must vote for him..
And he is intimidated by steelworkers (as we all are).
Plus he can step on the US flag while speaking about why he loves the flag...
But he is reporting for Duty!
And he gets soccer balls stuck to his forehead from the botox leaking out.......
Oh yes, and he is reporting for duty......
And he`s afraid of getting hit in the face by a football
Ouch I say!
And he knows how to cut in line and step over ropes for a photo op...
And he can imitate a monkey....
And he also has a cool finger that has mutated freakishly long from constant use pointing blame at other people..
So here he comes...
THE BIGGEST FREGGIN` DORK TO EVER RUN FOR PRESIDENT!
JOHN `EFFEN KERRY!!
"Mama! Wawa! Goo goo! Mama! Wawa!"
I saw the vid. That was NOT a pen.
He wasn't lifting anything that high, he was bringing it down from his pocket as he was turning.
good,, I trust your judgement Ronin,, I have only seen stills but someone has to have a closeup because that object was clearly higher than the lecturn in the pictures I saw above almost as high as the microphones, what do you think?
Whether any thing ever comes of this or not, one thing is clear here: Kerry will be watched like a hawk at the next debate. He won't get away with pulling any kind of stunt like this in the next debate.
that 3rd picture looks to me like it is out and higher than the podium but it could be covered by an open jacket flap and only visable from the side,, is that what you are seeing?
Ya'll make sure to check out how this is spun:
I would be rofl if I wasn't seeing kerry bumper stickers and yard signs.
In case anyone is still not sure, and fwiw (because, face it, we already knew he was a lying cheating xxx, and that they really really want to win this) check it out here:
Close up pics of Kerry's "notes" -- http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1234255/posts
During the debate there is a series of responses by Bush to Kerry and back to Bush where you can see Kerry's legal sheet of paper pushed up over over the lectern and up against the "time lights" box. You can actually see Kerry pull the sheet back down . This is where Kerry was referring to his cheat sheet. He had to push the legal piece of paper forward to read the illegal notes underneath. It's during the series of responses where Bush condemns Kerry for calling our allies coerced and bribed.
And kuntman writes for Newsweek. And he is a die hard lib dem.
Look at this precious bon mot:
American Beat: Indecision 2004
by Gersh Kuntzman (Gersh Kuntzman is also a reporter for The New York Post. His website is at http://www.gersh.tv/) | Jun 14 '04
Whether you're a liberal Democrat like me or a conservative Republican (you know, one of those people who annoy me), it's safe to say that you think this coming election presents the nation with a very clear choice: To dump Bush or not to dump Bush.
That's not the case, though, for the Undecideds, a group of 2-million to 20-million Americans who, despite a two-year-long campaign, millions of dollars in campaign ads, tens of thousands of news stories and dozens of Top 10 Lists on Letterman, still haven't quite figured outwhat they think of the president or ......
I am so confused at this point...I thought for sure it was a white piece of paper...looked at the quicktime movie for the umpteenth time...and thought I saw him clicking a pen!!!! Seemed more like a pen in the smaller split screen movie...but stills clearly look like he has card(s) in his hand! Perhaps there is some truth in him doing something with each hand!
Even better the second time.
The guy who wrote the article for the Post is a biased avid liberal democrat.
like I said, funny if wasn't so darn much at stake.
Take THAT, you nasty bloggers and pajamahadeen, you right wing conspiracists!
I'm waiting to see Kerry deny this, and then for someone to produce a clear close-up to show he's a liar.
Thats the pen that violated the rules and the spirit of the debate...Right???
lol, thanks, and bless you! it was a blow to see it vaporized -- good thing I generally save longer posts w/links!
Here's hoping David Wade's blaming this on the pajamahadeen gets wider coverage and the ridicule it deserves. His candidate broke rules like a common criminal and he dares make excuses?
Chieftain, this is just the latest in kerry's lifetime of lies and deceit, and his people try to cover up with more lies and deceit. Hope this continued overt misbehavior gives more fuel to the swift boat campaign.
It looks to me to be about the same height as the first photos. The height of an inside jacket pocket.
He's tall and he's orange.
Oh, I must vote for him. Often. Maybe in multiple states.
"For one thing it was white and square!"
...and so was the thing he took out of his pocket.
He broke the rules, and if the press does not like people speculating, then it should be a simple thing for them to post the feed they say proves it was a pen.
And instead of demeaning the swift boat vets, how about asking Kerry why he didn't sign a form authorizing the Pentagon to release his records to prove their charges wrong. And for the love of God's truth why doesn't the press jump on Kerry when he falsely claims he released all his records?
I am getting sick and tired of the press demanding that we shut up and take their word for everything.
That being said, I bet that the NY Post is right, and it was just a pen.
even if it was a pen, he still broke the rules...
and as innocuous as a pen might seem, it tells you that Kerry feels rules dont apply to him.
Someone on another thread thought he may have started with the paper in his right hand (not sure from where), while pulling something from his upper left pocket with his left hand.
When he turns the corner, it looks like something may be in his right hand ??
Not sure, just a thought.
a black pen?? look on the debate page here.....click on #7
"I can do better" ... make it FULL SCREEN....hes got a pen there alright but its a WHITE PEN....NO BLACK PEN....
I hope we hear more....because NOW we know HE DID take something out of his pocket AGAINST the RULES and if its SO INNOCENT where is a clear picture of it being a BLACK pen? its not..
You inspired me to do a google search on the author. He also writes for Salon.com.
Like Vietnam, the military is again being asked to clean up the detritus of a failed foreign policy.
I smell bias and cover up.
Are there any still shots of this?
Well, let me add one more oddity to the discussion.
Why would a right handed person reach into his jacket with his left hand to retrieve a pen? A right handed person would carry the pen where he could reach it with his right hand wouldn't he? We are asked to believe that Kerry carries a pen in his right breast inner coat pocket, then has to reach in with his left hand, remove the pen, lay it on the desk so he could later pick it up with his right hand. Even a klutz like Kerry would be smoother than that.
After seeing the photos and researching the reporter, I am changing my bet.