GONE IN A DAY: YEAR'S SUPPLY OF 'SKILLED' VISAS

Miami Herald ^ | Oct. 06, 2004 | Herald Staff and Wire Reports

[Toddsterpatriot]

Piece of paper. If any organized group of people wanted to, they could come and take it. Maybe only one or two. Who would stop them? Mexican police?

You're right. So, what's your point?

[Regulator]

So, what's your point?

Think about it. Get back to me.

[Toddsterpatriot]

No, still don't get your point. Spell it out.

[Regulator]

Here's a clue. You said you disagree with the government taking property.

So who's the government?

[Toddsterpatriot]

Uhhh, my next store neighbor? Me?

So, quit dancing around, what's your point?

[Regulator]

Uhhh, my next store neighbor? Me?

That's a start. Gosh, yer fast. High school civics an' all.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Wow, your point is so profound you're gonna keep it a secret.

Shucks, I'm sure it woulda been interestin'.

[Regulator]

Wow, your point is so profound you're gonna keep it a secret

Right out in the open. Secret of the country. The reason it exists.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Right out in the open. Secret of the country.

Sorry, missed civics class when they talked about your secret.

[magellan]

My company is offering nice referral fees for finding good quality employees too. Most of the positions are only open to a U.S. citizen who can acquire a Secret or better clearance.

The only jobs my company is offering referral fees for do not require clearances. Someone from an H-1B country will not have the experience we need. We are looking for people with 5 years of experience in high-end ASIC or microprocessor design in a team design environment. You are mostly going to find that experience in the U.S. You can find some in Japan and Israel, and maybe in Taiwan. Israel and Taiwan would be the only likely H-1B sources. But you will not find this experience in China, Russia, or India.

[Regulator]

missed civics class

Oh well

[MTOrlando]

First... economic conditions can be good and bad in different areas...

True.

Secondly, this IS a free trade issue.

It absolutely IS NOT a free trade. People and Jobs cannot be traded among countries in the same way wheat and coffee are. The only way to make this a "free trade" issue is to subscribe to the view that employees are human capital, not human resources. Doing so is tantamount to declaring slavery to be permissible as a "free trade" issue as well - and that's a debate we ended in this country a few hundred years ago.

Thirdly, ... an American Engineer hires some of the foreign Engineers to work FOR him ...

Most likely the American engineer won't have the opportunity. Offshore companies will run him into the ground - "management" is cheaper there too. He will be in the same boat as all the American engineers he chose not to hire.

Fourthly, the American consumer gains big,

If the American consumer does not have money to spend because he has no job, this is a moot point.

Fifthly, Foreign investment is encouraged.

You actually thing this is a good thing? I am extremely uncomfortable with any policy that, at it's core, maintains that increasing foreign ownership of assets in the USA is a good thing!

We are not a third-world country, and we don't need inflows of foreign capital to "develop" our economy. Encouraging foreign investments here is selling our country out from beneath us.

Sixthly, ... If a company can lower costs 10% by hiring cheaper engineers, then maybe they can boost exports 40%...

Maybe the company could boost compensation by 10%, and in turn receive a 40% increase in productivity from it's staff? The Suits never try that.outside of the CxO suites.

The more savings they can get here the less likely they are to outsource.

So American workers should work for the same wages as people in third-world hellholes, to avoid having their jobs shipped overseas to aforementioned hellholes? Insane.


Finally, all you people who are sooooo upset about this are almost reacting just like liberals...

No, we are reacting like conservative populists. We are reacting like the founders of this country, who put America and her needs above those of the rest of the world, and certainly would not sacrifice Americans for the almighty dollar at the altar of Free Trade.

Free Trade IS a conservative idea.

Free Trade may be a conservative idea. The idea that you can trade in people the way you would in goods and services absolutely is not, and that's what everyone who claims that offshoring and H1B are "Free Trade" issues implicitly admits.

[Chemist_Geek]

Precisely! It's impossible to reconstitute, overnight, a war materiel manufacturing capability. Therefore, we should not lose it in the first place.

[sevry]

We need to draw the best and brightest here to remain competive economically. What a discrace!

You're being sarcastic - aren't you? Because the skilled people are everywhere. They just want to be paid what they're worth. Aren't you the same way?

[sevry]

subscribe to the view that employees are human capital, not human resources.

I think any reasonable conservative would disagree even with that. People certainly are not disposables, or costs or production, or time-management drones, etc. But they aren't resources, either. People are people. They are not capital equipment, and should never be treated that way. They are, even since the rise of Protestant-based industrial capitalism, and the collapse of small business and lifelong apprenticeships in favor of the new mass production and 'mobile workforce'.

Encouraging foreign investments here is selling our country out from beneath us.

I'm not so sure. What you want isn't that foreign ethos. But you might get the foreign culture, in certain areas, especially if the foreigners hire only foreigners like themselves - which you can see in many small businesses. And so there are quite a few in a cluster of neighborhoods. Perhaps the difference, today, is that they don't ASPIRE to an American culture, as many did in the days of the 'melting pot', not to destroy the virtues of their faith and culture but to adopt whatever virtues are found only in the hard-won freedom of America, precisely because of that freedom. If they no longer see America that way, if there's nothing to learn from being here, then it's a far different sort of immigrant, than in the past.

The more savings they can get here the less likely they are to outsource.

To some extent, we've all been there, on either side. And the 'it's just business' excuse is only an excuse if other options aren't exhausted to favor Americans, in America, or at least virtuous foreigners who you know to be so. If there is no alternative, then one has to start looking for the benefit of outsourcing, as Limbaugh always does. But if it doesn't have to come to that, if there are alternatives given the specific people and their abilities, then all effort should be made to encourage them, particularly if they are American citizens. There's no question. And it might be something a company needs to advertize, along with the rest of its product - we treat our American workers fairly. I'd buy. It's actually one of the last things I admire about unions (cause they're not very likeable or productive, otherwise).

The idea that you can trade in people the way you would in goods and services absolutely is not,

Just a far as it goes, as I mentioned above, I completely agree with you. People are not capital equipment. They are not disposables. They are people. And it's worth reminding other people, management from line to penthouse, of that. It's worth shouting about. It's worth putting your own job on the line. And where companies understand this - where they get it - I think people, as customers, should know. They might prefer to buy from such companies, and not from those which don't get it. And besides, I think everyone also knows that the worst turnover in companies is precisely in those companies that don't treat employees well, that DON'T pay well, that don't communicate, and otherwise don't get it. They can 'outsource' all they like. If they don't get, they're still looking at shutting the doors - at some point (though maybe an outsourcee won't if they, ironically, actually get it).

[Clemenza]

South Florida is dominated by doctors, lawyers, tourism, and crime. Silicon Valley it isn't.

Don't forget money launderers,er, "Private Bankers."

[TexasCowboy]

"Three, some people want a living, but don't want to work for it."

I can remember when truck drivers pulled up to the rig and fell over the steering wheel to get a few minutes sleep while the roughnecks hooked up their hoses.
Even without the DOT regs, people won't work like that anymore, no matter how much they make on time and a half.
Why should they when their uncles and cousins are making it just fine with the Lone Star Card?

[Willie Green]

Reagan was a HUGE free trader (although like Bush Jr I believe he made some exceptions out of political necessity).

Ronald Reagan always placed America First! in his priorities.

THE REAGAN RECORD ON TRADE: RHETORIC VS. REALITY

[investigateworld]

NAFTA has been so successful the "coyotes" who smuggle the poor of Mexico have raised their rates to what the market can now afford. ICE buddies advise the going rate was $500 ten years ago, now runs $2000.

[Paul Ross]

Free Trade IS a conservative idea.

Wrong.

Reagan was a HUGE free trader

Not precisely (he instituted a plethora of quotas and other barriers), and to the extent he was, he never did fully shake the FDR dogma he had been indoctrinated with.