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Mexico Discovery Fuels Debate About Man's Origins
Deseret Morning News/Associated Press ^ | 10-3-2004 | John Rice

Posted on 10/11/2004 6:04:15 PM PDT by blam

Deseret Morning News, Sunday, October 03, 2004

Mexico discovery fuels debate about man's origins

Archeologists are baffled by hominid bones

By John Rice
Associated Press

MEXICO CITY — For decades, Federico Solorzano has gathered old bones from the shores of Mexico's largest lake — bones he found and bones he was brought, bones of beasts and bones of men.

Mexican professor Federico Solorzano shows the supraorbital arch from the fossil of an early hominid.

Guillermo Arias, Associated Press The longtime teacher of anthropology and paleontology was sifting through his collection one day when he noticed some that didn't seem to fit: a mineral-darkened piece of brow ridge bone and a bit of jaw that didn't match any modern skulls.

But Solorzano found a perfect fit when he placed the brow against a model of the Old World's Tautavel Man — member of a species, Homo erectus, that many believe was an ancestor of modern Homo sapiens.

The catch: Homo erectus is believed to have died out 100,000 to 200,000 years ago — tens of thousands of years before men are believed to have reached the Americas.

And archaeologists have never found a trace of Homo erectus in the Americas.

"Most people sort of just shook their heads and have been baffled by it," said Robson Bonnichsen, director of the Center for the Study of the First Americans at Texas A&M University.

"That doesn't mean it's not real. It just means there's not any comparative evidence."

Solorzano's find was described at a September conference here that drew academics from Europe and the Americas to discuss new research on early man in the Americas.

That primitive brow ridge from Lake Chapala "is in a category by itself," Bonnichsen said.

It is so strange — and so out of context — that it has been largely ignored even as other discoveries are raising basic questions about the story of human beings in the Americas: when they arrived and where they came from.

Until recently, most U.S. archaeologists believed that the first Americans arrived about 13,500 years ago when a temporary land corridor opened across the Bering Strait.

The migrant Clovis people, named for a site near Clovis, N.M., apparently hunted mammoths and other large animals, leaving scatterings of finely worked spear tips and other tools across North America and, some argue, South America.

A sometimes vehement minority still holds to that "Clovis first" position. The evidence of what could have come before remains sparse, scattered and controversial. Archaeologists have proposed possible alternative routes to the Americas — across the Pacific from Asia or Australia, across the Atlantic from Europe or Africa — though most say a trip from northeast Asia is most likely, perhaps by people advancing along a frozen coast in small boats.

South American researchers say they have found numerous sites that are 10,000 to 15,000 years old and argue that Clovis people could not have migrated all the way to Tierra del Fuego, at the southern tip of South America so soon after the ice-free corridor opened from Asia to Alaska.

Argentine archaeologist Laura Miotti agrees the settlers likely came from the north. But she and others say there are no Clovis-like finds in the part of Asia from which the migrants supposedly came, and they question why North American sites don't appear to be older than those in South America.

The evidence for earlier human habitation in the Americas, however scanty, is tantalizing. It includes:

— A possible handscraper splotched with blood more than 34,000 years ago at Monte Verde in Chile.

— Possible stone tools at a site in Brazil that is 40,000 to 50,000 years old.

— A not-yet-published report of human remains dated as much as 28,000 years old near Puebla in central Mexico.

Most crucially, a majority of archaeologists are convinced that a second site at Monte Verde dates to at least 14,000 years ago — some 500 years before the land bridge from Asia opened more than 9,000 miles to the north.

Yet the early dates are still often questioned.

A claim of 250,000-year-old human tools near Mexico's Valsequillo reservoir was widely laughed at in the 1970s, though other researchers are once again working at that area.

Clovis-first advocates suggest that the early dates may reflect variations or errors in the still-developing technologies of dating old samples.

They say natural breakage could account for some of what look like early tools and that the dating of others was likely confused, as when streams, floods or human beings mix new material into old.

As for human remains, only two teeth in Brazil seem to have been directly dated to clearly pre-Clovis times.

"If you are trying to break through a barrier that is well established, you need well documented, incontrovertible proof," said archaeologist Stuart Fiedel, author of a textbook on early Americans and a proponent of the Clovis-first model.

Both sides say that new research on DNA and climate history supports their claims, or at least fails to undermine them.

Solorzano's finds raise so many unanswerable questions that they have remained just a curiosity.

Solorzano, 83, is a respected researcher who has taught generations of university students in the city of Guadalajara.

He says the brow bone raises "many questions, one of them being its great and amazing resemblance to primitive hominid forms whose presence in the Americas has not been generally accepted."

The few other scientists who have analyzed the bones closely agree that they look human — not animal — and are very, very old.

"They were definitely human," said Joel Irish, a specialist in bioarchaeology at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks.

He suggested they could be from "a very primitive looking modern human" but said they would be "very early."

Efforts to date the pieces using modern techniques so far have failed due to lack of surviving tissue.

Most frustrating for archaeologists is that nobody knows quite where the bone came from or even when it was found.

It was apparently picked up when drought exposed a large ring of the Chapala lake bed from 1947 to 1956.

Archaeologist Stanley Davis, then at Texas A&M, spent several seasons accompanying Solorzano on surveys of the region and said he located places he would like to investigate further.

"It takes a lot of money. That's the reason I'm not down there working right now," he said by telephone.

Davis said other human bones in the same area that are about 6,000 to 7,000 years old lack the mineralized darkness of age found in the brow and jaw pieces.

Davis said the Chapala area is interesting because the lake is very old and is a likely spot for coast-hopping migrants to come inland.

Yet relatively few people have investigated the area so far. Until recently, Mexican archaeologists tended to focus on the spectacular indigenous cultures of the Olmecs, Mayas, Aztecs and others that arose in the last 3,000 years or so.

Davis said the Chapala-area finds included 12 scattered skulls of a long-extinct horse species. All have been smashed between the eyes.

"Either we have a herd of very stupid horses ... or we have some other action responsible for their death. That action is probably human," he said. He estimated the horses were likely 10,000 to 20,000 years old.

A cache of swamp-deer teeth included several that were grooved, apparently for use in a necklace, he said. A radio carbon test showed one was roughly 20,000 years old. "That tells us we may have something."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: about; americas; archaeology; australia; bering; clovis; debate; discovery; dna; fuels; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; mans; mexico; mtdna; multiregionalism; origins; paleontology; preclovis; precolumbian; primates; replacement

1 posted on 10/11/2004 6:04:16 PM PDT by blam
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo; SunkenCiv

This article was linked by Michael_Michaelangelo in another article. I believe it deserves it's own posting.


2 posted on 10/11/2004 6:05:49 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Walking from Alaska to anywhere would not be easy. Rivers were the highways before civilization arrived and moreso now, but rivers worked only one way before the motor except in winter when most people would not stray far from home anyway.


3 posted on 10/11/2004 6:11:21 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
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To: blam

BTTT


4 posted on 10/11/2004 6:14:37 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: SunkenCiv

Needs a GGG ping...


5 posted on 10/11/2004 6:15:42 PM PDT by null and void (Bring the War on Terror to an elementary school near you! Vote for Kerry...)
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To: null and void

velly velly intillessteenk


6 posted on 10/11/2004 6:19:24 PM PDT by ValerieUSA
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To: RightWhale
Aliens took them there....they rode dinosoars...they called AAA for trip tickets...
7 posted on 10/11/2004 6:20:22 PM PDT by Duaine (Peace is our profession....)
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To: blam
Their is the scientific method of obtaining data and then there is the scientists method of interpreting that data. A lot of unscientific undata has been widespread through the media and proclaimed to be factual. Difficult to sort it out. Good article. More research will be needed to check this out particularly since most of the third world governments are only interested in stuff that will deflect criticisms from them.
8 posted on 10/11/2004 6:21:03 PM PDT by crazyhorse691 (I volunteer to instruct JFK on the meaning of a purple heart!!)
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To: blam
The few other scientists who have analyzed the bones closely agree that they look human — not animal — and are very, very old.

Like this?

Sorry, this really is an interesting article, but I just had to post this pic.

9 posted on 10/11/2004 6:24:24 PM PDT by SirChas
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To: RightWhale
I wonder if we've found skeletons of these folks?

Calico: A 200,000 Year Old Site In The Americas?

10 posted on 10/11/2004 6:28:31 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Last Update: Sunday, October 10, 2004. 3:47pm (AEST)

Scientists search Chinese site for evidence of early man

Scientists have started drilling holes into the ground around the Peking Man site near Beijing in hopes of finding more relics from the ancient representative of the human race.

The project, jointly conducted by the Chinese Academy of Sciences and Electricite de France, aims to drill nine holes of up to 30 metres in depth, the Xinhua news agency reported.

The scientists hope the effort will result in evidence of early human activity in the area, as suggested by previous preliminary investigations, according to the agency.

The discovery of the 500,000-year-old Peking Man was one of the most decisive steps in the scientific quest to trace man's prehistoric development from the apes.

Since Peking Man was first unearthed in 1929, archaeologists have found fossils belonging to 40 different individuals and more than 100,000 stone implements and other objects.

The Zhoukoudian area, where the Peking Man's cave is located, was listed by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation as a world heritage site in 1987.

11 posted on 10/11/2004 6:48:14 PM PDT by blam
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To: SirChas
Ewwwwe.. Demosaurus Uglinanis....
the ancient ancestor of Demotrollis Henri Waxmanus
12 posted on 10/11/2004 6:59:08 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; SunkenCiv; 24Karet; 2Jedismom; 4ConservativeJustices; ...
Thanks Blam, saved me the effort, and it looks great!
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

13 posted on 10/11/2004 10:47:20 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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"Clovis-first advocates suggest that the early dates may reflect variations or errors in the still-developing technologies of dating old samples." Yeah, right. My favorite remains, "any dude could have put that there," regarding a pre-Clovis spearpoint found in a strata left by an ice-age glacier. :')


14 posted on 10/11/2004 10:52:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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To: blam
I always look forward to your posts.

Not 6 miles from me is the site of "Sandia Man Cave". The humans and their tools there dated to 27,000 years ago.

The 'Out of Africa' myth is starting to crumble...

15 posted on 10/11/2004 10:59:53 PM PDT by Cogadh na Sith (--Scots Gaelic: 'War or Peace'--)
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To: blam; ValerieUSA
About 30 years ago a book The Descent of Woman by the following author failed to make a case against the savannah theory of hominid evolution. This book continues that struggle. The Aquatic Ape theory is at least somewhat respectible now (among feminists), but there's so much in the way of anachronistic politics involved that I can't get fired up about it. I first saw the info about the baboon virus in this book. Quote follows the URL.
The Scars of Evolution
by Elaine Morgan
"The most remarkable aspect of Todaro's discovery emerged when he examined Homo Sapiens for the 'baboon marker'. It was not there... Todaro drew one firm conclusion. 'The ancestors of man did not develop in a geographical area where they would have been in contact with the baboon. I would argue that the data we are presenting imply a non-African origin of man millions of years ago.'"
Morgan obviously uses this to buttress her Aquatic Ape, since the area where (in her view) hominids turned to Homo Sapiens was in a supposedly isolated chunk of eastern Africa, temporarily separated from the mainland by open water. It was a nice safe place, free of predators, kinda like Disneyland, and the hominids just lucked out when the land split. Without a catastrophic split, this is untenable. : )

By far the oldest primate fossils come from Asia. While not Asian myself (unless one counts Europe, or my Hun ancestors), and generally Multiregionalist (rather than Replacement) and catastrophist, I regard the triumph of the African origin bias to be the result of the loss of the Peking Man fossils as well as the political chaos of eastern Asia during the first half (and more) of the 20th century.

16 posted on 10/11/2004 10:59:55 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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To: blam

Why are so many archaelogists and anthropologists landsmen? Their ignorance of the sea is astounding, to say the least.


17 posted on 10/11/2004 11:01:25 PM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: blam
Homo erectus died out over embarrassment because of their name.
18 posted on 10/12/2004 5:49:16 AM PDT by escapefromboston (green lantern returns!)
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To: Frumious Bandersnatch

The Herd instinct triumphs!!!!! Even, nee especially, in academia!!!


19 posted on 10/12/2004 5:57:42 AM PDT by PaRebel (Fight for liberty or die a slave!)
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To: blam

"The discovery of the 500,000-year-old Peking Man"

I prefern Peking Duck, myself.


20 posted on 10/12/2004 6:28:01 AM PDT by adam_az (Call your State GOP office and volunteer!)
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To: Cogadh na Sith

The "Out of Africa" theory isn't in danger. It only says anatomically modern man emerged from Africa 100-120,000 ya.

This find is pretty interesting because of what it might say about Homo Erectus. Apparently he was more sophisticated than believed. He is now thought to be a seafarer and is known to have survived in southeast Asia until the coming of modern humans. Maybe he did the same in America.


21 posted on 10/12/2004 7:03:51 AM PDT by Varda
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related:

First Americans - Homo Erectus in America
http://home.pacbell.net/tcbpfb/
January 01, 1999 | Tom Baldwin (apparently)
Posted on 09/24/2004 7:54:26 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1226526/posts

10 posted on 09/24/2004 11:27:29 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1226526/posts?page=10#10


22 posted on 10/12/2004 9:38:05 AM PDT by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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To: blam

Weren't the American continents supposed to have separated from the old world millions of years before any kind of hominids or humans evolved?


23 posted on 10/12/2004 10:09:15 AM PDT by judywillow
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To: judywillow
"Weren't the American continents supposed to have separated from the old world millions of years before any kind of hominids or humans evolved?"

South America and Africa seperated 120 million years ago. They continue to seperate at about the same rate as your fingernails grow.

24 posted on 10/12/2004 3:06:12 PM PDT by blam
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To: Varda
Early (Ancient) Hair Sample Raises Questions
25 posted on 10/12/2004 3:10:17 PM PDT by blam
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To: Frumious Bandersnatch
Why are so many archaelogists and anthropologists landsmen?

Natural selection? ;)

26 posted on 10/12/2004 3:12:33 PM PDT by mewzilla
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To: msdrby

ping


27 posted on 10/12/2004 3:17:41 PM PDT by Professional Engineer (I sent JohnRob 39 cents to supersize my tagl)
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To: blam
The hair from Oregon is interesting. I wonder if they have published anything. I think that if the hair weren't anatomically modern human (AMH) they would have trumpeted that. The fact that it doesn't match any racial groups is consistent with the theory that racial groups are a Holocene adaptation. I think back that far most AMHumans were pretty much alike.
28 posted on 10/12/2004 4:15:16 PM PDT by Varda
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To: SirChas

"but I just had to post this pic."

LOL!Don't tell us- it is obvious- the devil made you do it.


29 posted on 10/12/2004 4:26:56 PM PDT by F.J. Mitchell (Ve haf unpleasent vays of dealing mitt doze who oppose Herr Kerry.)
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To: mewzilla

Do you perhaps mean Au Natural?


30 posted on 10/12/2004 8:33:38 PM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

31 posted on 10/28/2005 8:40:41 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated my FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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Just a Blast from the Past.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
Gods, Graves, Glyphs PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

32 posted on 08/20/2006 2:34:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv; blam
Drilling the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. LINK.

RRS James Cook cruise JC007, 5 March 2007 – 17 April 2007

Scientists have discovered a large area thousands of square kilometres in extent in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean where the Earth's crust seems to be missing entirely. Instead, the mantle - the deep interior of the Earth, normally covered by crust many kilometres thick - is exposed on the seafloor, 3000m below the surface. It has been described as being like an open wound on the surface of the Earth. What scientists don't know is whether the ocean crust was first developed, and then ripped away by huge geological faults, or whether it never even developed in the first place.

...an image from the tripod camera, showing the rig sitting on bare rock, covered in the foreground by a dusting of white sediment. Note the leg of the drill rig, and a sea urchin for scale in the centre of the picture.

From EIU 'The Bottom of the Atlantic' :

'The absence of thick sediment on the level floor presents "another of many scientific riddles our expedition propounded." It indicates that the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean on both sides of the Ridge was only very recently formed. At the same time, on the flanks of the Ridge the layers of sediment in some places are "thousands of feet thick, as was expected."

(V quotes from 'New Discoveries on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge' National Geographic Magazine, Vol XCVI, No. 5 (November 1949).

There's no mystery...the continents moved apart, the Mexican did what Mexicans do; he WALKED!

33 posted on 12/17/2007 9:19:30 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Fred Nerks

Nice shot of Atlantis... :’)


34 posted on 12/17/2007 9:35:54 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Monday, December 10, 2007____________________https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

...I can see the outline of it in the centre of the ridge, almost straight across from the Pillars of Hercules...


35 posted on 12/17/2007 10:00:46 PM PST by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: blam

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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36 posted on 09/17/2009 5:04:05 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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