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Can men respect women if they're trained to be perverts?
WorldNetDaily ^ | 10/18/04 | Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Posted on 10/18/2004 6:43:11 PM PDT by wagglebee

In a culture that sexualizes women constantly, the line between water-cooler chat and harassment is increasingly thin.

Bill O'Reilly, the conservative talk-show host whose "The O'Reilly Factor" is the highest-rated cable news show, has been sued for sexual harassment by his former producer Andrea Mackris. Mackris alleges that on many occasions, both in person and over the phone, O'Reilly engaged in lewd and lascivious conversation against her will. She goes so far as to state that O'Reilly unlawfully engaged in, and gratified himself with, phone sex, with Mackris on the other end of the line.

To be sure, O'Reilly enjoys the presumption of innocence in the suit, until proven otherwise. I personally respect and greatly enjoy O'Reilly as a broadcaster and I am sorry to see his public standing undermined by these allegations. While some of the content of Mackris' affidavit seems possible, readers of it will discover that other parts seem directed squarely at Roger Ailes, the chairman of the Fox News Channel, thereby undermining her credibility. Furthermore, Mackris does not explain why she didn't just hang up when O'Reilly allegedly harassed her repeatedly over the telephone.

Be that as it may, this sordid and sorry tale brings to the fore all that is wrong with our increasingly perverse culture. The question that the growing phenomenon of sexual harassment in the workplace raises is this: Can we really expect to have a healthy office environment, where men treat women as colleagues and intellectual equals, when everywhere else in the culture women are being so completely sexualized?

Is it realistic to ask men to separate what they see on television and in magazines from their interactions with women in the boardroom? With men being deluged in virtually every electronic medium with the message that women want to be recognized for their bodies rather than their brains, is it reasonable to expect that men will suddenly think differently the moment a woman dons a business suit?

Never in history have women been so sexually exploited as they are today.

College girls expose their breasts in exchange for a T-shirt on the "Girls Gone Wild" videos. MTV has transformed the women's music industry away from an emphasis on vocals and toward an emphasis of cleavage. Posters of Victoria's Secret models, dressed in thongs and the most revealing lingerie, line our mains thoroughfares, billboards and buses. Are men really expected to shut all this off the moment they stand in front of a copy machine?

Can we really expect a pure office environment to emerge from a degenerate culture? Indeed, in an environment where everything from the Internet to sporting events is sexualized, it even becomes difficult to determine what exactly constitutes harassment in the work place.

Let's see. If a man watches "Sex and the City" and, knowing that his female colleagues love the show, mentions at the water cooler how much he enjoyed the previous night's episode of Samantha giving a stranger oral sex, is it harassment? Or is it small talk?

And let's say a boss comes into the office after watching the Super Bowl and asks his secretary if she saw Janet Jackson's breast pop out during the half-time show, is he making lewd and inappropriate comments? What if a guy sees some new movie about sex and comments on the nude love scene – is that harassment? And if it is, can we at least recognize that we have made a huge portion of American culture off-limits in the workplace, because of how perversely sexualized it has become?

So that I am not misunderstood, let me make it clear that my purpose here is not to let men's boorish, and possibly illegal behavior, off the hook.

On the contrary. I wish that all men were gentlemen, behaving in a dignified and refined manner, especially around ladies. And I also wish that it didn't take the threat of legal action to get them to behave as gentlemen. Lewd comments on the part of lecherous men is the last thing that women should have to tolerate.

But let's acknowledge the incredibly mixed, contradictory and unfair signals that are being given to men. In life outside the office, men's lechery is encouraged in order to persuade men them to watch television or part with their cash. Near-naked twins sell them beer, women in thongs advertise the Miss America pageant, and Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera simulate masturbation in coming attractions for their shows on HBO and Showtime.

After being fed the idea in every corner of the culture that women primarily desire sexual attention, these men are expected to believe that women are going to be insulted, rather than complimented, by uncouth comments about their bodies.

What complicates the question of harassment is the fact that women are being subtly conditioned to use their sexuality to get ahead in the office. No less a branding genius than Donald Trump advised women on "The Apprentice" to play up their sexuality in commercial settings in order to gain power over men. Many women fall for this degrading advice by coming to the office dressed like streetwalkers. Dress codes today are considered outmoded and draconian, and fashion dictates that many women wear blouses cut very low and skirts cut very high. Yet men are expected not to notice. A woman's breasts can be spilling out of her blouse at a board-meeting, and men are expected to see her intelligence.

On my radio show, one man called in to say that there is a woman who works right across from his cubicle who wears see-through blouses nearly every day. "She's essentially wearing only a bra in the office, and I often have to put my hand in front of my face to block her out to stop myself from staring."

I am not blaming the victims or insinuating that women are inviting harassment. Far from it. No matter what they are exposed to and no matter how women dress, men must be in control of themselves and treat women as dignified and intellectual equals. I have never, and will never, excuse boorish behavior. But that does not change the fact that sexual harassment in the workplace is being vastly increased by a culture that both fosters the idea that women are primarily sexual objects, and that puts no emphasis on men and women dressing modestly and professionally.

And you can be sure that until such time that the sexual exploitation of women is reversed – and women reclaim their dignity by refusing to be portrayed on television and the Internet as the lecherous man's playthings – the number of women who have to suffer through male crudity is only going to increase.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: billoreilly; boteach; sexualharassment
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To: RavenATB
>>now that I've seen this girl, I don't believe it for a minute.

By O'Reilly standards she is a goddess.

151 posted on 10/18/2004 9:38:21 PM PDT by Graymatter (Defeat Kerry; shape his soul and let the glory out.)
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To: Centurion2000

"How hard is it to hang up a phone ?"

I say a woman should hang up the phone.

My brother says if a woman is getting a salary (just a guess) of $125,000 a year, and her boss is the one harassing, it is harder to hang up the phone. Most people might just believe the boss and think she's making it all up.

Hopefully, no matter what the salary, most women would hang up the phone.


152 posted on 10/18/2004 9:38:39 PM PDT by Cedar
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To: wagglebee
Generally speaking, men who are outright pervs and proud of it will not have happy marriages and will have kids who are screwed up. I've seen it time and again.

Beyond that, our republic can not be sustained by a nation made up of such men and their screwed up kids. A nation of such individuals will either be conquered from outside or taken over by authoritarians.
153 posted on 10/18/2004 9:41:51 PM PDT by Antoninus (Abortion; Euthanasia; Fetal Stem Cell Research; Human Cloning; Homo Marriage - NON-NEGOTIABLE ISSUES)
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To: irv
OK. Everyone knows how to deal with this! She said no. The rest is her emotional outlook. Yes, I have empathy for her, but the work place is a bitch not a therapy ward.

Crudeness is what should not be accepted. One way or another humans try for sex, male v female and reverse (I am excluding Democratic supporters of certain persuasions.) The crudeness comes in with promotions, IMHO. People of the same ilk promote others of that ilk, If the basis for promotion is sex, crudeness etc, then that is perpetuated in the corporate culture.

I would also suspect that the corporation may have rewarded other "alchies", flirtatious females etc. I am sure that the corporate culture in the entity was not acceptable to a number of people who were not promoted, but who merited a promotion They did not qualify in that corporate atmosphere / culture. I think she did the right thing in leaving, only she took too long. (BTW An office is not the place for a romance.)

154 posted on 10/18/2004 9:48:59 PM PDT by Henchman (Kerry: No guts, No Glory, No way!)
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To: familyop
That was very well written--that and the whole paragraph. It is contrary to current revisions of social history (the feminist implications that in the past, men were more often vulgar than not and got away with it), and it is very true.

Thank you -- I also enjoy a good compliment.

I recall reading an interesting anecdote about John Wayne. In one of his last films, the script called for his character to curse. He indignately and profanely refused. John Wayne, in real life, was a profane man but he also was of the old school: it was one thing for a man to curse behind closed doors, in the presence of other men, but not in public.

155 posted on 10/18/2004 9:52:59 PM PDT by Siamese Princess
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To: HitmanNY
If a man began acting significantly less than a gentleman, a woman would quickly put him in place with a slap, and otherwise tell him that if he kept it up her brothers, boyfrined, or husband would come by and kick the crap out of him.

That's always the problem with the hypothetical scenerio. The brother/father/boyfriend/husband is always able to kick the offenders ass in these scenerios. In real life, I saw two brothers, big guys even, learn a lesson in pain, blood and humility when the biker they were going to teach a lesson for comments to their sister literally tore them up swinging a heavy belt buckle.

Then to add insult to injury, the brothers were arrested in the ER for coming after the guy in the first place. The whole incident was a recurring party joke for at least a year.

Best that the gentle people remember that they're gentle people and not try to be badasses.

156 posted on 10/18/2004 9:56:20 PM PDT by Melas
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To: Melas

I didn't say that the guys would come over and kick the crap out of the guy, just that the woman would say that they would.

I wasn't suggesting at all that it would come to that, but that it is part of the convention of the woman putting a brutish sort in his place.


157 posted on 10/18/2004 10:00:29 PM PDT by HitmanLV (I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.)
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To: narses

Marry an import; there is a hell of a lot more of them than Yankee BS, and they love children. Buh bye!


158 posted on 10/18/2004 10:38:00 PM PDT by Tuco Ramirez (Ideas have consequences.)
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To: familyop

Yep, no doubt about it. Males should start behaving like gentlemen. Women should start putting boorish men in their place, too.


159 posted on 10/18/2004 10:58:49 PM PDT by HitmanLV (I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.)
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To: knarf; perfect stranger

No lipstick, tiny ear rings, turtleneck, jacket, hair pulled back...is she trying to look like a butch?

I'll bet she's pissed about her last pay raise.


160 posted on 10/19/2004 12:08:06 AM PDT by B4Ranch (´´Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; They are our teeth for Liberty)
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To: RavenATB

That's how she was looking for the press conference. She's not going to wear the skimpy outfits she enticed BOR with.


161 posted on 10/19/2004 12:30:21 AM PDT by beaversmom (Michael Medved has the Greatest radio show on GOD's Green Earth)
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To: Siamese Princess
Oooo, excellent post, Princess.

Those were the good old days... When people kept their sexual lives private, when men AND women were respectful (for the most part) to each other, and when society actually had expectations.

162 posted on 10/19/2004 12:43:50 AM PDT by Mockingbird For Short ("An irreligious fanatic is just as dangerous as a religious fanatic.")
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To: missyme

Don't ya' just LOVE the turtleneck? Gives the appearance of modesty. It's not even November yet; she must be sweating underneath that jacket....


163 posted on 10/19/2004 12:48:48 AM PDT by Mockingbird For Short ("An irreligious fanatic is just as dangerous as a religious fanatic.")
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To: RavenATB
O'Rielly is so hard up that his target is the frumpy spinster librarian from "Leave It To Beaver"?

I gotta tell you, its those frumpy spinster librarian types that really know how to shake the babymaker, if you know what I mean.

Not like I would know, though. I overheard that in a sports bar, once. :-)

164 posted on 10/19/2004 12:58:11 AM PDT by HitmanLV (I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.)
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To: perfect stranger

Re: Turtlenecks

I know a couple of very natural bosomy women who have resorted to turtlenecks when gravity started taking a big toll on them in their mid 30s. It's no biggie but they avoided showing cleavage since their chests had begun to sag at an early age.

In any case both were and are very lovely young women. The moral or my story - Don't let the turtleneck fool you: sometimes it's evidence that mommy is really 'packing' up top. ;-)


165 posted on 10/19/2004 1:06:22 AM PDT by HitmanLV (I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.)
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To: Advil

The young lady in the pic is clearly not unattractive at all. I think some Freepers are just being hard on her, that's all.


166 posted on 10/19/2004 1:07:34 AM PDT by HitmanLV (I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.)
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To: DefCon; weegee

Benny is back on TV on BBC America on digital cable. It's on for an hour at noon PST on both Saturday and Sunday. It is as funny as ever!

Check your local listings!


167 posted on 10/19/2004 1:12:18 AM PDT by HitmanLV (I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.)
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To: ml1954
Can women respect men when they are constantly portrayed as ignorant, stupid, self-centered, sex obsessed morons in sitcoms?

I've been consistently seen as an ignorant, stupid, self-centered, sex obsessed moron, and it hasn't been much of an obstacle in my life. :-)

168 posted on 10/19/2004 1:14:12 AM PDT by HitmanLV (I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.)
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To: wagglebee

(Benedict Arnold was for American independence before he was against it.)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Your tagline would make the best campaign poster that I have ever seen.


169 posted on 10/19/2004 1:35:04 AM PDT by omronnie (Wish I could come up with something cute here to say like others seem to do. !!)
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To: B4Ranch
"I'll bet she's pissed about her last pay raise."

Naaahhh ... O'Reilly got off and she didn't.

170 posted on 10/19/2004 3:43:06 AM PDT by knarf (A place where anyone can learn anything ... especially that which promotes clear thinking.)
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To: Mockingbird For Short
Oooo, excellent post, Princess.

Another compliment! Thanks.

171 posted on 10/19/2004 4:00:06 AM PDT by Siamese Princess
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To: Siamese Princess
I think that he is spot on. Excellent article.

Unfortunately, rather than prompting introspection, this article will fall on the deaf ears of those who seek to justify their sins, which is one reason why "some kinds can only be driven out by prayer and fasting."

172 posted on 10/19/2004 5:11:32 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: wagglebee

I always thought shows like 'Sex in the city' were going to corrupt this country. Having that show become 'successful' really ticks me off to this day because they bring down morality. There is no way I want to be remotely considered 'like' any of those pigs on the show. There is absolutely no self respect in it....it just promotes unfaithfullness and whores. The people that excuse it are just looking for an excuse for their corrupt behavior.


173 posted on 10/19/2004 5:21:29 AM PDT by benice (Be a pollster for Zogby--sign up--he needs the balance.)
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To: missyme
I value what GOD's creatures bring to humanity and believe the kindest people in the world are the ones that treat helpless animals right.

Amen.

174 posted on 10/19/2004 5:25:10 AM PDT by benice (Be a pollster for Zogby--sign up--he needs the balance.)
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To: omronnie
Your tagline would make the best campaign poster that I have ever seen.

Thanks.

175 posted on 10/19/2004 6:10:51 AM PDT by wagglebee (Benedict Arnold was for American independence before he was against it.)
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To: Melas
In real life, I saw two brothers, big guys even, learn a lesson in pain, blood and humility when the biker they were going to teach a lesson for comments to their sister literally tore them up swinging a heavy belt buckle.

Some lessons are best delivered with a Glock 21. ;)

A hundred years ago, that sort of "community policing" might have occurred without the authorities feeling any need to intervene, but we live in a Kinder, Gentler America (tm) now.

176 posted on 10/19/2004 6:25:22 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves
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To: wagglebee

Ping for a later read.


177 posted on 10/19/2004 7:26:28 AM PDT by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace (Michael <a href = "http://www.michaelmoore.com/" title="Miserable Failure">"Miserable Failure"</a>)
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To: RandallFlagg
I'm not a hermit - I'm just in the qualifiers for World Championship Hide-and-Seek.


178 posted on 10/19/2004 7:34:10 AM PDT by P.O.E. (John Kerry: The" you're rubber and I'm glue" candidate.)
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To: wagglebee

The flip side of the story are the women in the workplace who want all the recognition and pay the men get, but won't do the job. Most of the ladies at my workplace are valued employees, but some continue to demand special treatment because they're women. The management complies so they won't be accused of being unfair to women.

There are women at my workplace making over $80,000 a year who "work from home" 2 days a week and show up about 5 hours the other 3 days. I'm still not planning a sex change operation, though.


179 posted on 10/19/2004 7:40:47 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: knarf

Q: What is it when a man talks dirty to a woman?
A: Sexual harassment.



Q: What is it when a woman talks dirty to a man?
A: $6.99 a minute.


180 posted on 10/19/2004 9:44:44 AM PDT by B4Ranch (´´Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; They are our teeth for Liberty)
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To: swilhelm73
This is a textbook, real, centerist.

OK, It is probably accurate to descibe O'R as Center-Left. But honest to Gore, this guy never voted for a Republican in his life ... and never will. In fact, it hurts him to say anything good about any Republican.

Russert (the smartest), and Matthews,(the trickiest) are both Jesuit-trained and apparently drank deep of Christian Socialism as preached by Pius IX in the mid-19th century. O'R (the loudest)went to some jerkwater outfit, the Catholic equivalent of Wossamatta U State, and got the same message, in diluted form. Of course, Pope Pius IX was also a pious old fraud who ran an absolute dictatorship in the Papal States and would have thrown all three of these parlor pinkos into a papal dungeon.

The three of'em are America's answer to Europe's Christian Socialists. They are all just dying to be accepted by the real American Left, which won't happen because, in case these three bozos never noticed, the Lefties despise Catholics ...especially "working class" Catholics.

These three guys all discovered "the fair and balanced" thing after Fox proved it would sell, so they jumped on the bandwagon, but now, around election time, their true Democrap colors show.

181 posted on 10/19/2004 4:31:27 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk
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To: swilhelm73
This is a textbook, real, centerist.

OK, It is probably accurate to descibe O'R as Center-Left. But honest to Gore, this guy never voted for a Republican in his life ... and never will. In fact, it hurts him to say anything good about any Republican.

Russert (the smartest), and Matthews,(the trickiest) are both Jesuit-trained and apparently drank deep of Christian Socialism as preached by Pius IX in the mid-19th century. O'R (the loudest)went to some jerkwater outfit, the Catholic equivalent of Wossamatta U State, and got the same message, in diluted form. Of course, Pope Pius IX was also a pious old fraud who ran an absolute dictatorship in the Papal States and would have thrown all three of these parlor pinkos into a papal dungeon.

The three of'em are America's answer to Europe's Christian Socialists. They are all just dying to be accepted by the real American Left, which won't happen because, in case these three bozos never noticed, the Lefties despise Catholics ...especially "working class" Catholics.

These three guys all discovered "the fair and balanced" thing after Fox proved it would sell, so they jumped on the bandwagon, but now, around election time, their true Democrap colors show.

182 posted on 10/19/2004 4:32:40 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk
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To: wagglebee

Sexual banter flows freely at my employment. It should never be confused with harrassment. All in good clean (dirty) fun!


183 posted on 10/19/2004 4:34:26 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
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To: farmfriend

Where do you work, at a strip club?


184 posted on 10/19/2004 4:50:47 PM PDT by wagglebee (Benedict Arnold was for American independence before he was against it.)
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To: codyjacksmom

Have I mentioned that I respect you?


185 posted on 10/19/2004 5:26:07 PM PDT by SoDak
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To: SoDak
Even perverts need respect too... ;)
186 posted on 10/19/2004 5:58:19 PM PDT by codyjacksmom (Attention All Girlie-men...Please don't forget your foo foo's on the way out the door.)
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To: HitmanNY

I guess I now understand why the brown paper bag manufacturing industry hasn't gone under...


187 posted on 10/19/2004 6:15:14 PM PDT by RavenATB
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To: knarf

I think they should both pay a little attention to that facial hair...


188 posted on 10/19/2004 6:19:06 PM PDT by RavenATB
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To: knarf

Who says there's no such thing as a sasquach...?


189 posted on 10/19/2004 6:21:59 PM PDT by RavenATB
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To: nmh
SIGH!, "SELF CONTROL" is a Concept Equally Applicable to Women AND Men!!

The "Fantasy" that ONLY MEN desire Sex is PURE FICTION!

Human Biology Dictates that BOTH Men & Women are Sexual Creatures!!

The "Sociological Myth" that "Women" are the "Victims of Male 'Sexuality'", is PURE, Unadelterated "BS!!"

BY ALL REPORTS, WOMEN are AT LEAST as SEXUALLY DRIVEN as Men.

Doc

190 posted on 10/19/2004 6:47:18 PM PDT by Doc On The Bay
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To: cjshapi

Ping.


191 posted on 10/19/2004 6:48:49 PM PDT by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: perfect stranger

The unnatractive ones sue because once dumped they know they don't have another chance......

As el-Rushbo says, "Femminism was started to give ugly women better access to mainstream society"......


192 posted on 10/20/2004 6:56:13 PM PDT by festus (Whats the frequency Kenneth ?)
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To: festus

Trying to "guilt-trip" a soceity into sexual Marxism.


193 posted on 10/20/2004 7:05:04 PM PDT by perfect stranger (The Hummer is a regular Pat Buchanan on wheels." PJ O'Rourke from C&D magazine)
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