Dumb show (UK's Guardian Cries Out for Bush Assassination)

The Guardian (UK) ^ | 10/23/04 | Charlie Brooker

[Tommyjo]

Again, it's all in your mind. Stop deluding yourself! Please explain why a serving member of HM Forces would wish harm to President Bush? It still stands that your accusations are groundless and only exist in your mind. Over to you to provide that quote.

[Tommyjo]

Again, you are deluding yourself. No Tornado operations were curtailed or reduced in the initial low-level air campaign. The Tornado was the only aircraft capable of deploying the JP233 (anti-airfield) weapon. It was vital that those anti-airfield missions continued. As planned after the low-level phase the Tornadoes moved to medium level deploying laser-guided munitions.

Most of the heavy lifting was done by the superb America f-1117A, B2 bombers (for which the British don't even come close to having an equivalent), F15's etc etc .You guys where essentially the bus boys. Didn't prevent you from making plenty of noise though, as usual. :)

Again, you are deluding yourself. The only heavy strategic bomber used during the 1991 campaign was the B-52. The B-2 was not operational until 1993. The first combat operations of the B-2 didn't take place until March 24 1999 over Yugoslavia. The only nation on earth that can afford the B-2 is the US. No other country could even afford the cost of development or operations.

The US offered the F-117 to the RAF via Lockheed - the offer was not taken up. The RAF had participated in exchange tours with the USAF flying the F-117s since the late 1980s. During the period of the 1991 Gulf War Squadron Leader Wardell was undergoing training in the US on the F-117. He was not therefore deployed for combat operations. The first RAF pilot to fly the F-117 in combat was Squadron Leader Monkman during 1999 over Yugoslavia. He received the US Air Medal and the US Distinguished Flying Cross.

[KwasiOwusu]

"Again, you are deluding yourself. No Tornado operations were curtailed or reduced in the initial low-level air campaign. The Tornado was the only aircraft capable of deploying the JP233 (anti-airfield) weapon"

You continue to leave in dreamland, dude.
You vastly overestimate British air capabilities.
The vast bulk of the very dangerous initial attacks to take out Iraqi Command and Control and AAA's , Scud missile sites, etc etc, were done by the stealthy America F-117A's backed by some F-15's
The British Tornado , is not even on the same planet as the F-117A which has vastly superior technology .
And the Tornado's participation in the first Gulf Way WAS reduced, after their performances proved below par, and it was determined that they were highly vulnerable to Iraqi fire.
I lived in Britain at the time, and I pretty much followed most of the war on the BBC and ITV news.
Bottom line, most of the heavy lifting in the first Gulf War was done by the USAF, F-117A's, F15's , F14's F-16's etc etc., accounting for some 90% of the damage to the Iraqis.
British role was strictly of a very limited nature, even though you wouldn't know it at the time by listening to the chest beating on the BBC. :).

[Tommyjo]

"Dude" you are also living in dreamland. This is the second time that you have completely misconstrued what I have posted. Where the hell was I challenging the percentage of missions flown by US air assets? You stated that the US commanders pulled off the Tornado fleet. This is completely untrue. The RAF had a limited but vital role with the JP233 (anti-airfield weapon) and ALARM (anti-radiation missile).

There were no US commanders pulling off RAF Tornadoes from any assigned target. The US was originally in the initial JP233 programme, but pulled out at an early stage. They decided to go with the French Durandal runway cratering munition which they eventually bought and operated from their F-111 fleet. The ALARM anti-radiation missile deployed from the Tornado fleet was also highly prized by US air planners. Unlike the US HARM the ALARM had a loiter capability. This enabled it to zoom climb and hang on a parachute waiting for an emitting radar to activate.This was a highly prized asset as the Iraqi's quickly learned to minimize their radar emissions due to suppression of enemy air defences assets in their airspace. There was no other airframe in the Coaliton inventory that fielded the JP233s or ALARMs but the Tornado. The targets were assigned in the long-run up to the conflict and nothing was re-assigned.

The RAF Tornadoes continued to do their role delivering JP233s and ALARMs even during the losses of a number of airframes.. Reserve aircraft and crews replaced the losses and the missions continued. Where on earth was I saying that the Tornado was in the league of the specialist F-117A? You are talking to someone who actually served during that conflict and who still serves.

After the initial low-level suppression missions the campaign was moved up to medium-level operations in a bid to take Coaliton forces out of the high threat AAA. This was pre-planned and the Tornadoes also went to medium-level. The aim from then on in was delivery of laser-guided munitions. The Tornadoes in this case were supported by Buccaneers who acted as laser-spike aircraft. Buccaneers also delivered laser-guided munitions during the campaign.

Instead of watching it on "BBC" and "ITV" try actually watching it in real time from an operations centre like I did back in 1991. This very small contribution by the RAF Tornado fleet delivered hundreds of JP233s, over four thousand free fall bombs and nearly 1,000 laser-guided munitions in the course of the conflict. Some 67 Tornadoes were deployed to the region of which 61 saw combat. Of this 6 were lost in combat. Tornadoes also plinked bridges up near Baghdad and conducted Scud finding missions with the GR.1A dedicated reconnaissance Tornado variant . The first three-nights of the conflict was the low-level phase which after the degradation of the Iraqi air defences by the Coalition moved up out of the weeds to medium-level. During the first three nights even the B-52s were conducting low-level missions against Iraqi airfields until the sustained combined operations degraded the defences.

"Dude" I realise that I am corresponding with someone who is limited in his knowledge of air operation and systems. So far you have made two major flaws. The first was your assumption that the B-2 took part in the 1991 Gulf War and the fact that the USAF does not operate the F-14. In the US inventory the F-14 is operated by the US. Navy.