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Gertz Says Russians Did Remove Weapons
The Washington Times ^ | 10/28/04 | Bill Gertz

Posted on 10/28/2004 7:29:47 PM PDT by tomahawk

On Great (Fox News), Bill Gertz said he is coming out with an article that U.S. intelligence stands behind assessment that the Russian GRU moved weapons out of Iraq in the time leading up to the war.

He also said it would take weeks for the story to develop.


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: alqaqaa; ammogate; billgertz; explosives; gertz; gerz; iraq; napalminthemorning; russia; wot
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Is the Washington Times article posted yet?
1 posted on 10/28/2004 7:29:48 PM PDT by tomahawk
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To: tomahawk

On Greta, not On Great.


2 posted on 10/28/2004 7:30:36 PM PDT by tomahawk
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To: tomahawk
I saw that, the Russians screwed Sadaam and us at the same time nothing new there.It does solve the problem of what happened to the 360 tons of weapons.
3 posted on 10/28/2004 7:31:39 PM PDT by rodguy911 ( President Reagan---all the rest.)
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To: tomahawk
Don't know, but for sure the "washingtimes" article will never show up . Fix your link! (Just watchin' your back)
4 posted on 10/28/2004 7:32:03 PM PDT by SlowBoat407 ("Don't bother giving me liberty: I'll take it for myself, thanks.")
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To: tomahawk

Reckon the defense will say Scott Petersen was in Iraq, looting those weapons, at the time Laci was murdered?


5 posted on 10/28/2004 7:32:07 PM PDT by Paul Atreides
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To: SlowBoat407

Oops.

The correct link would be
http://www.washingtontimes.com

The article should be up soon.


6 posted on 10/28/2004 7:36:12 PM PDT by tomahawk
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To: Paul Atreides
Reckon the defense will say Scott Petersen was in Iraq, looting those weapons, at the time Laci was murdered?

Or Laci drowned hiding the 377 tons of weapons at the bottom of San Francisco Bay.

7 posted on 10/28/2004 7:38:38 PM PDT by elizabetty
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To: elizabetty

Greta will find out. If not, maybe Saddam can put a word in Rita Cosby's ear.


8 posted on 10/28/2004 7:44:55 PM PDT by Paul Atreides
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: tomahawk

I just came up with a theory, which, while it sounds far fetched, maybe, it seems to fit at least some of the facts.

Suppose the Russians did indeed remove the weapons, including WMD, by telling Saddam that they are just removing it for safe keeping, but in fact, the Russians were working with us behind the scenes. Russia removed those weapons, so Saddam couldn't use it against our troops. Remember, we were expecting our troops to be attacked with chem and bio weapons, that's why they were wearing the defensive suits in the 120 degree heat.

Suppose Russia couldn't come out openly then, and even now, to admit that they supported us, and Bush is protecting them, by not coming out and saying that's where the WMD went, because we would have to reveal things which would hurt our War on Terror.


10 posted on 10/28/2004 7:48:56 PM PDT by FairOpinion (GET OUT THE VOTE. ENSURE A BUSH/CHENEY WIN.)
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To: FairOpinion

Maybe it was some agreement, that we won't reveal to the world all the terrible germs the Russians gave to Saddam, if the Russians will recapture and take out of Iraq all Saddam's WMD, precisely so it won't fall into the hands of terrorists.


11 posted on 10/28/2004 7:50:39 PM PDT by FairOpinion (GET OUT THE VOTE. ENSURE A BUSH/CHENEY WIN.)
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To: rodguy911
Not the Russians, but Russian mercenaries. Someone was paying them. Who?
12 posted on 10/28/2004 7:51:22 PM PDT by Poincare
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To: tomahawk

**** FROM UPDATES GERTZ ARTICLE *****

The Russian units were dispatched beginning in January 2003 and by March had destroyed hundreds of pages of documents on Russian arms supplies to Iraq while dispersing arms to Syria, the second official said.
Besides their own weapons, the Russians were supplying Saddam with arms made in Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria and other Eastern European nations, he said.
"Whatever was not buried was put on lorries and sent to the Syrian border," the defense official said.
Documents reviewed by the official included itineraries of military units involved in the truck shipments to Syria. The materials outlined in the documents included missile components, MiG jet parts, tank parts and chemicals used to make chemical weapons, the official said.
The director of the Iraqi government front company known as the Al Bashair Trading Co. fled to Syria, where he is in charge of monitoring arms holdings and funding Iraqi insurgent activities, the official said.
Also, an Arabic-language report obtained by U.S. intelligence disclosed the extent of Russian armaments. The 26-page report was written by Abdul Tawab Mullah al Huwaysh, Saddam's minister of military industrialization, who was captured by U.S. forces May 2, 2003.
The Russian "spetsnaz" or special-operations forces were under the GRU military intelligence service and organized large commercial truck convoys for the weapons removal, the official said.
Regarding the explosives, the new Iraqi government reported that 194.7 metric tons of HMX, or high-melting-point explosive, and 141.2 metric tons of RDX, or rapid-detonation explosive, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or pentaerythritol tetranitrate, were missing.
The material is used in nuclear weapons and also in making military "plastic" high explosive.
Defense officials said the Russians can provide information on what happened to the Iraqi weapons and explosives that were transported out of the country. Officials believe the Russians also can explain what happened to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs.


13 posted on 10/28/2004 7:51:54 PM PDT by notkerry
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To: tomahawk
KERRY IMPLOSION: HEAR BUSH RESPONSE
SEE EXPLOSIVES TIMELINE, SATELLITE PHOTO



14 posted on 10/28/2004 7:52:05 PM PDT by Mia T (Stop Clintons' Undermining Machinations (The acronym is the message.))
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To: FairOpinion

I like that theory. I was thinking that Russia took it back because Russia sold it to
Sadam, therefore, it will be in safe hands until the crisis is over.


15 posted on 10/28/2004 7:52:43 PM PDT by dagnabit
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To: FairOpinion

Never ever trust the Ruskies.


16 posted on 10/28/2004 7:53:39 PM PDT by rodguy911 ( President Reagan---all the rest.)
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To: tomahawk

from a purely political perspective - this story about the Russians is dead. neither side will corroborate it.


17 posted on 10/28/2004 7:54:18 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: tomahawk

Too late to help Bush... AP will be attacking Bush now until Nov. 2 on "devastating" Halliburton story. Then on Sunday, the WaPo or LAT will probably have something that there's no time to respond to. Our only hope is a backlash like the one that happened to the LAT when they hit Arnold at the last second.


18 posted on 10/28/2004 7:54:19 PM PDT by topdog1
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To: FairOpinion

Sounds plausible considering Putin warned Bush after 9/11 that Saddam was going to attack America. I think Putin plays both sides. Un,oh that sounds suspiciously like Kerry, maybe Kerry aspires to be a double agent like in Kgb.


19 posted on 10/28/2004 7:54:41 PM PDT by Txsleuth
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To: tomahawk; FairOpinion

Not only did the Russians remove the explosives and weapons (WMD?), they gave them to Saddam in the first place!!! If Iran disarms and gets rid of its nuclear facilities, it will be the same story...it will all go back to RUSSIA.


20 posted on 10/28/2004 7:54:53 PM PDT by TapTheSource
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To: rodguy911

Russia was just coming in to get a little repo work done before the Americans got there....

Saddam was looking to ditch the stuff before the Americans found it anyway.

And how hard would it be to make up a phony UN IAEA seal and substitute a lock on those bunkers after they got cleaned out? We really only have the word of the inspectors that they did a full and reasonably substantiated inspection anyway - considering the degree to which the UN authorities were in the pockets of the Oil-for-Food scandal already, it is no large stretch of the imagination to suggest a little collusion was going on.


21 posted on 10/28/2004 7:56:59 PM PDT by alloysteel
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To: Poincare
Who knows? From what I have read about Russia the entire country is being sold to the highest bidder as long as the govt. or the Russian mob does not get it first. It appears Russia is out of control.
22 posted on 10/28/2004 7:58:09 PM PDT by rodguy911 ( President Reagan---all the rest.)
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To: Txsleuth

"maybe Kerry aspires to be a double agent like in Kgb".

He has CIA experience from Cambodia!


23 posted on 10/28/2004 7:59:09 PM PDT by topdog1
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To: FairOpinion
I just came up with a theory

technically, it is an hypothesis, but seems plausible to me. minds greater than mine have probably been working many things behind the scenes, and minds greater than mine will be needed to put the pieces of the puzzle together.

i recall the bush administration saying in '01 that the war on terror would in part use tactics of misinformation to confuse the enemy.

24 posted on 10/28/2004 7:59:17 PM PDT by mlocher ((the theory of evolution as it relates to species, is merely an hypothesis))
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To: tomahawk
We have known this since at least 1993...it's just no one dared to talk about the (Russian) emperor's new cloths!

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=10111
25 posted on 10/28/2004 7:59:19 PM PDT by TapTheSource
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To: tomahawk

An article was up last night .


26 posted on 10/28/2004 8:00:03 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: FairOpinion

Your assessment may not be far off. The Russians operate at another level than many people think, especailly when it comes to their intelligence and self interest


27 posted on 10/28/2004 8:03:46 PM PDT by 5Madman2 (DemocRATS are Vermin)
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To: notkerry
Great stuff Gertz explains a lot, I just wish it had come out about 30 days ago.
28 posted on 10/28/2004 8:04:45 PM PDT by rodguy911 ( President Reagan---all the rest.)
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To: All
Last night's bombshell:

DRUDGE: Russia tied to Iraq´s missing arms; Pentagon: Weaponry relocated before war ^

"GERTZ // THURSDAY // WASH TIMES: Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned. John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, “almost certainly” removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad."

29 posted on 10/28/2004 8:05:46 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: FairOpinion

Dreamworld


30 posted on 10/28/2004 8:06:30 PM PDT by sfrepub
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To: alloysteel
Now that you mention it, RE the repo aspect of things, Iraq did owe the Russians several suitcases of rubles from what I understand. The Ruskies were probably just trying to get whatever they could before we took over.

It's hard to believe what other countries we have helped o ver the years like France, Russia and Germany will do for a little gold, disgusting isn't it.
31 posted on 10/28/2004 8:10:09 PM PDT by rodguy911 ( President Reagan---all the rest.)
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To: Txsleuth

To carry the speculation further, maybe Putin is really on our side, he is just our mole in the Axis of Weasels.

I think Putin is smart and pragmatic, he knows that an alliance with us is a winning solution for Russia, while he won't get anything from France.

But also remember, that Clinton was not able to form any relationship with Putin, mostly, because Putin knew that Clinton was a flake and couldn't be counted on to keep his word.

Putin, naturally is not going to do everything at once, but I think, that when he and Bush agreed to scrap the ABM treaty, that was a major concession from his viewpoint.


32 posted on 10/28/2004 8:11:21 PM PDT by FairOpinion (GET OUT THE VOTE. ENSURE A BUSH/CHENEY WIN.)
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To: FairOpinion
At best the Russians are just jealous of us, at worst they would still like to bury us. The truth is probably somewhere in between, I will never trust those bastards.
33 posted on 10/28/2004 8:14:07 PM PDT by rodguy911 ( President Reagan---all the rest.)
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To: FairOpinion
Mr. Shaw said he believes that the withdrawal of Russian-made weapons and explosives from Iraq was part of plan by Saddam to set up a "redoubt" in Syria that could be used as a base for launching pro-Saddam insurgency operations in Iraq.
34 posted on 10/28/2004 8:14:59 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: FairOpinion

Syria needs to do a "LIBYA ACTION"


35 posted on 10/28/2004 8:16:03 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: tomahawk

Why was this information not released much earlier than this? The only logical answers to why WMDs stockpiles were not found is that they were buried in the middle of nowhere, transported to Syria, or a combination of both.


36 posted on 10/28/2004 8:16:25 PM PDT by PeoplesRepublicOfWashington (Vote Kerry: The Space Needle is an eyesore anyway.)
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To: oceanview
"this story about the Russians is dead. neither side will corroborate it."

Hmmm...Bush is not the only one within our government that has actual knowledge and proof of those events. If one of those with inside knowledge happens also to be opposed to Bush's foreign policy, especially the GWOT, or else someone who still carries around a grudge for the GRU (old Soviet military intelligence), then the facts will leak. I can think of at least two elements within the CIA that fit that description.

Where else would Getz be getting his intel if not from intel? (Rhetorical question.)

--Boot Hill

37 posted on 10/28/2004 8:18:19 PM PDT by Boot Hill (Candy-gram for Osama bin Mongo, candy-gram for Osama bin Mongo!!!)
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To: Boot Hill

oh sure, the leaks to Gertz may well be true. but politically, since neither side is going to substantiate this (and the MSM isn't going to touch Gertz's story), we aren't going to be able to rebut this story down before the election.


38 posted on 10/28/2004 8:20:58 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: FairOpinion; tomahawk

Some links that thicken the plot...

Ex-spy fingers Russians on WMD (1993)

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20030820-081256-6822r.htm

The Plot to Hijack the CIA

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1252938/posts

Russia’s aims in the middle east

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1260794/posts


39 posted on 10/28/2004 8:21:42 PM PDT by TapTheSource
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To: Boot Hill
Where else would Getz be getting his intel if not from intel? (Rhetorical question.)

I think Gertz gets BSed on a routine basis.

But, his articles are uniformly what people here want to hear. Eventually I think his star will fade once it sinks in basically none of his exciting stories pan out or get corroborated.

40 posted on 10/28/2004 8:22:54 PM PDT by Strategerist
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To: All
Last nights Financial Times article:

Russians ‘may have taken Iraq explosives’

41 posted on 10/28/2004 8:24:22 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Strategerist; Boot Hill

See the link at #41.....Not Gertz!!


42 posted on 10/28/2004 8:27:05 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: oceanview
Can a Freedom of Info request be done on satellite imagery?
43 posted on 10/28/2004 8:29:27 PM PDT by endthematrix (10 out of 10 terrorists agree-Anybody but Bush!)
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To: Strategerist
Eventually I think his star will fade once it sinks in basically none of his exciting stories pan out or get corroborated.

I was just thinking the same thing. Can anyone remember a Gertz article that actualy led to anything except 12 hours of excitement on FR?

This guy's going to end up working at Newsmax.

44 posted on 10/28/2004 8:30:07 PM PDT by skip_intro
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To: Boot Hill

"If one of those with inside knowledge happens also to be opposed to Bush's foreign policy, especially the GWOT, or else someone who still carries around a grudge for the GRU (old Soviet military intelligence), then the facts will leak. I can think of at least two elements within the CIA that fit that description. "

Good observation. Goertz obviously got his info from someone who wants to cause trouble for Bush. And considering that Putin is supporting Bush, this would hurt him as well -- he won't be happy if Kerry gets elected.


45 posted on 10/28/2004 8:48:08 PM PDT by FairOpinion (GET OUT THE VOTE. ENSURE A BUSH/CHENEY WIN.)
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To: skip_intro
I was just thinking the same thing. Can anyone remember a Gertz article that actualy led to anything except 12 hours of excitement on FR?

Wasn't it Gertz who gave us the 25 Chechen's with backpacks crossing from Mexico?

46 posted on 10/28/2004 8:48:20 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: tomahawk

Why would America leave the security of it's country up to the United Nations? All members in Congress and the Senate are killing Americans by supporting the United Nations.
TREASON


47 posted on 10/28/2004 9:07:14 PM PDT by watchout
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To: FairOpinion

Very interesting...good theory as we are mvong in on Iraq, Putin hedges his bets and moves the weapons.


48 posted on 10/28/2004 9:13:55 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Lola---the patriotic part-shepherd dog --wants FOUR MORE YEARS!)
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To: FairOpinion
I heard Gertz on the Savage radio show and he claimed that he felt Russia was part of the `axis of evil'. Thus, I do not think his information is indicative of Russia helping us.
49 posted on 10/28/2004 9:44:37 PM PDT by MontanaMatt (Take out Iran while you can! http://www.gogindex.org/news.html)
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To: MontanaMatt

Gertz may not have been thinking about it from this angle.


50 posted on 10/28/2004 9:47:54 PM PDT by FairOpinion (GET OUT THE VOTE. ENSURE A BUSH/CHENEY WIN.)
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