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Firefox, bah humbug
ZDNet ^ | November 4, 2004 | John Carroll

Posted on 11/04/2004 3:56:42 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper

Commentary--Firefox has been getting a lot of press lately. Firefox is free software in the Stallman-sanctioned sense--released under a GPL license and built atop technology developed for the Mozilla project. Everybody LOVES Firefox. Not only is it a great browser, but it will make your teeth whiter and secure you a date with Carmen Electra.

Okay, perhaps I exaggerate, but on that note, I haven’t seen ANYONE criticize Firefox. To a certain extent, this is because it is the best alternative in a world dominated by Internet Explorer (cue Opera/Safari/Konqueror fans to go into a frothing rage). On the other hand, as I can personally attest, it is politically incorrect in the extreme to criticize anything stamped with the open source moniker.

In short, though Firefox is a good browser, political considerations have allowed it to escape some deserved criticism. Firefox supporters make some rather costly demands of Web sites, particularly given that it commands such a small, albeit growing, share of the browser marketplace. Recent feverish Firefox support pieces aside, I still think that ignoring IE’s non-standard features will prove a large, and unnecessary, barrier to the success of the best alternative to Internet Explorer.

My Experience providing support for Firefox
As a certain square-jawed actor might have said had he been abducted by aliens and forced to write software, "the experience of one programmer doesn’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world." Even so, for a browser that touts its support for HTML standards, I was surprised to find that it had difficulty with standard HTML.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.zdnet.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Miscellaneous; Technical
KEYWORDS: firefox
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To: Prime Choice
Let's see...ZDnet is owned by Microsoft.

Errr, I think the guy's full of it too, but MS doesn't own ZDNet - C-Net does. They bought Ziff-Davis from Softbank of Japan a few years ago, and Softbank is now the largest shareholder in C-Net.

51 posted on 11/04/2004 4:18:15 PM PST by general_re (Drive offensively - the life you save may be your own.)
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To: BigSkyFreeper

I happen to love Firefox. However, due to my job, there are certain web applications which will ONLY work with IE.

But I use Firefox for everything else.

Mark


52 posted on 11/04/2004 4:18:29 PM PST by MarkL (Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. But it rocks absolutely, too!)
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To: Knitebane
There, fixed it for ya.

Nope. It is forgiving, believe me.

53 posted on 11/04/2004 4:19:32 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (Congratulations President-Re-Elect George W. Bush!)
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To: BibChr

There are plug-ins that make the tabs very flexible. I like Firefox because I can add the bells and whistles I want without the microsoft bloat.

Cindie


54 posted on 11/04/2004 4:19:36 PM PST by gardencatz (I homeschool, manage our finances, cook, clean, maintain our family farm...nope, no real job here!)
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To: BwanaNdege

Try a free webpage creation program called 'blink'.

It is pretty good, has preview function, and WYSIWYG.

http://www.wojanware.com/


55 posted on 11/04/2004 4:19:46 PM PST by TomGuy (His VN crumbling, he says 'move on'. So now, John Kerry is running on Bob KerrEy's Senate record.)
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To: BigSkyFreeper

Ive used firefox for a while and never had a problem, and its faster than ie, not to mention that when i turn up my resolution ies fonts are so small I cant read them


56 posted on 11/04/2004 4:20:02 PM PST by toledocon
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To: Knitebane

Does anyone use NetScape. That browser used to be my favorite many years ago. I learned how to create web pages from it and it was free. Then eventually I had to start using IE due to it being "everywhere".


57 posted on 11/04/2004 4:20:30 PM PST by FreeManWhoCan ("Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God." - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: BigSkyFreeper

I have firefox and Mozilla.

I find myself going back to Mozilla a lot. It has more options and better cookie management. I take it Firefox is kind of like the trimmed down version of Mozilla. It seems more for the person who does not like too many dials on the dashboard.
There options control is minimal. I have yet to hear anyone list the advantages of FireFox over Mozilla other than it has a smaller file size, but Mozilla also includes Mail.

If anyone could list the real advanages of Firefox over Mozilla then I would apreciated it. Of course they are both put out by Mozilla.


58 posted on 11/04/2004 4:20:50 PM PST by Revel
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To: BigSkyFreeper

Has anyone tried an email program called ePrompter? If so, is it any good?


59 posted on 11/04/2004 4:21:41 PM PST by sdcraigo (Kerry's plan is that he has a plan...)
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To: general_re

Yep. C-Net bought ZDNet. Did away with hotfiles.com since they already had download.com. This buyout happend eons (in internet age) ago.


60 posted on 11/04/2004 4:22:13 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (Congratulations President-Re-Elect George W. Bush!)
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To: general_re
Errr, I think the guy's full of it too, but MS doesn't own ZDNet - C-Net does. They bought Ziff-Davis from Softbank of Japan a few years ago, and Softbank is now the largest shareholder in C-Net.

You are correct, but I don't think that anyone would deny the fact that zdnet has been quite the fan of Microsoft over the years.

If I want cheerleading I can get it for free at www.microsoft.com. Why pay an annual subscription for it?

61 posted on 11/04/2004 4:22:37 PM PST by Knitebane
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To: Terpfen

Yes, it's a snotty 'tude.

The mouseover features on this page --

http://hcsb.broadmanholman.com/crossmain.asp

-- work on IE/Avant, not on Firefox. Let them know of the bug, they informed me that it wasn't a bug, it was improper coding. So they wouldn't fix it.

I. Don't. Care.

I just want to be able to use the page. Avant lets me, Ff doesn't.

So show me whether YOU're in a listening mood.

Dan


62 posted on 11/04/2004 4:22:44 PM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: FreeManWhoCan

Haven't used Netscape since version 3.02Gold. That takes me back to Win 3.11 days.


63 posted on 11/04/2004 4:23:04 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (Congratulations President-Re-Elect George W. Bush!)
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To: TomGuy

Yeah, but why, when Avant works so well? I can't see one thing Ff does that Avant doesn't do better.

Try it out.

Dan


64 posted on 11/04/2004 4:23:36 PM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: sdcraigo

Never used ePrompter. If it renders HTML encoded e-mail, I won't use it.


65 posted on 11/04/2004 4:25:03 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (Congratulations President-Re-Elect George W. Bush!)
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To: BigSkyFreeper

Has anyone tried an email program called ePrompter? If so, is it any good?


66 posted on 11/04/2004 4:25:41 PM PST by sdcraigo (Kerry's plan is that he has a plan...)
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To: tallhappy

I view PDF files on the 'net through IE.


67 posted on 11/04/2004 4:26:23 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (Congratulations President-Re-Elect George W. Bush!)
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To: Revel

I have used Mozilla from way back when they split from Netscape....

The only complaint is the POSTDATA error where you lose all data in data fields like this if you go back/forward

If they fix that.. which I have posted bug fix requests for.. then they could topple Opera and IE which do not have those issues.


In general... I use it for email and web and find it more stable than IE/Outlook/Eudora etc...


68 posted on 11/04/2004 4:26:28 PM PST by chinkshady
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To: FreeManWhoCan

Mozilla Still has composer. It is a lot like netscape communicator. Just highly updated. I still miss a few things from 4.7, but I don't think Mozilla will ever include them.

1. Long bookmark files executing into columns when accessed(instead of that disfuncional scrolling which you can't control)

2.Right click on a page and save a shortcut to the desktop.

3. Right click and "Set As Wall paper"

The old Netscape user interface was simply way ahead of its time.


69 posted on 11/04/2004 4:26:45 PM PST by Revel
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To: BigSkyFreeper

I'm using slimbrowser from www.flashpeak.com. Its alot more user friendlier then Firefox and you can beat the built in seach and dictionary tools. Very small. Bommer gives it 4 stars.


70 posted on 11/04/2004 4:27:33 PM PST by Bommer ( Bush met the First Lady at a BBQ? That's Love brotha!" - stainlessbanner)
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To: TomGuy

Thanks for suggesting Foxyvoice! Although I'm not visually impaired, just downloaded it and it's not bad!


71 posted on 11/04/2004 4:27:44 PM PST by Stellar Dendrite (Halliburton razed the rainforests in a fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan -John Kerry '04 /Sarcasm)
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To: BibChr

Assuming you're referring to the navigation features at the top, well, it just worked for me. The page navigates fine using both the arrows and the options such as "Search Results" and "Search Help." I'm using Firefox 1.0RC2.

Complaint listened to.


72 posted on 11/04/2004 4:27:46 PM PST by Terpfen (Anyone who worried about the election: crack a smile. We won.)
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To: omniscient

"Just like the much-ballyhooed open office software, which coughed up a whole bunch of #NAME's when trying to digest my Excel 97 spreadsheet. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is, there's no free lunch, and read the fine print."

I just tried to do the same thing, but with a works 98 ss. Did you ever get it open?


73 posted on 11/04/2004 4:27:56 PM PST by Norski
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To: BigSkyFreeper

Firefox is a winner for me. Much faster than IE.


74 posted on 11/04/2004 4:27:58 PM PST by Dubya (Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me)
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To: BigSkyFreeper

www.avantbrowser.com


75 posted on 11/04/2004 4:28:13 PM PST by uncleshag (Send the light !)
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To: BigSkyFreeper
I use FF, but I'll not put IE out to pasture for a long while.

After all this time, they can't even make it where you can save a web page. No matter the title of a thread, it only shows as "posts". That's a simple and basic necessity of a browser. Instead of trying to rush a release candidate they need to stop right where they are and fix the simple and basic things.

76 posted on 11/04/2004 4:28:16 PM PST by JoJo Gunn (More than two lawyers in any Country constitutes a terrorist organization. )
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To: BigSkyFreeper

I made it to NetScape 3.00 Gold... You at least got farther than me!


77 posted on 11/04/2004 4:28:58 PM PST by FreeManWhoCan ("Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God." - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: BigSkyFreeper

Never tried it. I like Safari better than IE, though. Come to think of it, the only reason my iBook has IE at all is because my fiance likes it.


78 posted on 11/04/2004 4:29:02 PM PST by Rubber_Duckie_27
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To: BigSkyFreeper

Fire fox and Mozilla work fine with PDF files if you have have adobe acrobat installed. Maybe you have and old version of Adobe. I use Firefox all the time for pdf. It even embeds in web pages.


79 posted on 11/04/2004 4:29:58 PM PST by Revel
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To: BigSkyFreeper

BTTT


80 posted on 11/04/2004 4:30:13 PM PST by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: FreeManWhoCan

I quit using Netscape around version 4.7. I was on dial-up. It would hang up, glitch, burp, stall out, and I noticed it sending a lot of info back to Netscape.

I could load the same webpages (that caused Netscape to crash) in IE and had no problem. I migrated to IE. For the last 3 years I have been using an IE based tab browser. Tabbed browsers are great for FR to open article links, etc. IE has been slow to change and update--still no tabs.


81 posted on 11/04/2004 4:30:30 PM PST by TomGuy (His VN crumbling, he says 'move on'. So now, John Kerry is running on Bob KerrEy's Senate record.)
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To: Beelzebubba

Mozilla has lotsa stuff in it that Firefox doesn't. For instance I use Eudora for email so I use Firefox cause I do not need Mozilla's email functions.


82 posted on 11/04/2004 4:31:07 PM PST by CCCnative (waiting for socialism to fail in Santa Cruz as it did in Soviet Russia)
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To: Revel
I take it Firefox is kind of like the trimmed down version of Mozilla.

Yep. Firefox is essentially just the browser part of Mozilla. A little less geeky (and hence a little less control).

83 posted on 11/04/2004 4:31:51 PM PST by NCSteve
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To: Revel

Nope. I'm using Acrobat 6.0, and have been using 6.0 since the initial release of Windows XP.


84 posted on 11/04/2004 4:32:43 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (Congratulations President-Re-Elect George W. Bush!)
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To: Knitebane
...I don't think that anyone would deny the fact that zdnet has been quite the fan of Microsoft over the years.

Bias never bothered me, but what did was that ZD's content typically broke down like this:

10%, interesting
10%, informative
40%, wrong
40%, stupid

...and after a while, it wasn't worth it to pick through the acres of wasteland in search of the one or two gold nuggets.

85 posted on 11/04/2004 4:32:45 PM PST by general_re (Drive offensively - the life you save may be your own.)
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To: chinkshady

"The only complaint is the POSTDATA error where you lose all data in data fields like this if you go back/forward "

Are you sure that problem is still there. I don't usually have that problem. Although I do remember getting and error before where it needs to recover the data.


86 posted on 11/04/2004 4:34:05 PM PST by Revel
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To: stylin_geek

I found the same problem with Mozilla. I found out that I had to make IE my prime web browser in order to check my webpage before uploading. Mozilla would have my text all over the place. I use Mozilla to surf, just wish I could use it for checking html.


87 posted on 11/04/2004 4:34:30 PM PST by arbee4bush (Then, in a clattering crescendo of keystrokes, the issue exploded in cyberspace.)
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To: BigSkyFreeper
"Firefox supporters make some rather costly demands of Web sites, particularly given that it commands such a small, albeit growing, share of the browser marketplace."

That's not true. I admin several webservers and do nothing special for firefox. Some of the MS special, resource and time wasting crap is a pain for webserver admins, though.

Firefox is alright for UNIX systems, if you get a release version and not an alpha or beta. It's really remarkable for the work of a teenager. I don't know how it works for China Bill's Windows, though. MS is too insecure for anyone who wants to keep their identities and credit card numbers to themselves.
88 posted on 11/04/2004 4:35:18 PM PST by familyop (http://www.familyops.us/)
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To: BibChr

Agreed, avant browser works fantastic.


89 posted on 11/04/2004 4:35:23 PM PST by rivercat (Welcome to California. Now go home.)
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To: stylin_geek

I've been hand coding HTML in Notepad since 1995, and I spend more time trying to get my pages to render properly in every other browser, yet even where neatness is the only thing that counts as far as I am concerned, IE still kicks everyone elses a$$.


90 posted on 11/04/2004 4:37:51 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (Congratulations President-Re-Elect George W. Bush!)
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To: BigSkyFreeper

Did you try to Re-install Adobe after you installed firefox...Because a lot programs have to install browswer plugins and they don't do it if that browswer does not exist when they(IE adobe) are installed.


91 posted on 11/04/2004 4:39:18 PM PST by Revel
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To: tallhappy

I have switched to FireFox and Acrobat is no problem. You might remove it from your system.

Throughly clean & defrag yr system, restart you system, download FF, disconnect from the internet, close everything, then install FireFox and reconnect to internet and do the Firefox update search.
This clean install should make it work. If your system can handle it.
Yeah..its a lot of work, but when you do things right the first time you have a baseline to start from.

I do a clean up every time I shut my system down. Since switching to Firefox the crap left on my computer is almost nil. When using IE I have a lot of crap to clean up.
With a bit of tweaking Firefox is doing a better job with less security hassle. Also I am able to turn off certain security features thast were mandatory with IE.


92 posted on 11/04/2004 4:39:41 PM PST by Khurkris (That sound you hear coming from over the horizon...thats me laughing.)
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To: Revel

There was no need to reinstall Adobe, it installs plugins even if you don't need them.


93 posted on 11/04/2004 4:40:50 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (Congratulations President-Re-Elect George W. Bush!)
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To: BigSkyFreeper
Nope. It is forgiving, believe me.

Sorry, but too many people disagree with you.

Let's face facts, shall we?

IE is broken, unsafe and full of unpatched bugs.

There are two dozen unpatched bugs., some of them months old.

There are regular, debilitating security problems, so much so that the US Department of Homeland Security recommends that people use something else.

It is a sucker for spyware, popups and malicious code.

It doesn't conform to standards and introduces new and broken "features" with every release.

Even if Firefox/Mozilla aren't perfect, anything is better than IE.

94 posted on 11/04/2004 4:41:50 PM PST by Knitebane
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To: BigSkyFreeper
"...workarounds?" LOL! See the World Wide Web Consortium for writing webpages and the W3C Markup Validation Service for checking HTML, CSS, etc.
95 posted on 11/04/2004 4:42:30 PM PST by familyop (Essayons)
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To: BigSkyFreeper

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation gave $8.8 million to the Planned Parenthood Federation.
http://www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/women/12/11/health.women.gates.reut/

"Microsoft offers source code to China"
http://itmatters.com.ph/news/news_03032003a.html
(removed from major news sites)

Gates: Buy stamps to send e-mail
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/internet/03/05/spam.charge.ap/

Bill Gates against repealing the inheritance tax
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_inheritance.html

"Soros, one of the wealthiest men in the world, promised $15.5
million to defeating President Bush. Also on this list are
Bill Gates,..."
http://www.americasvoices.org/archives2003/CoxJ/CoxJ_112403.htm

The Left-Wing Billionaire Collectivist Pigs
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/9/25/191020.shtml

Billionaire Collectivist Pigs on a Roll
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/10/11/171315.shtml

"Gun-Control Group Changes Name, Keeps Agenda"
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5C%5CNation%5C%5Carchive%5C%5C200106%5C%5CNAT20010615a.html
(and Bill is a contributor)

"Is Bill Gates a closet liberal?"
http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/01/cov_29feature.html
(Bill Gates for gun control, pro-abortion, etc.)

http://vikingphoenix.com/news/madminute/1997/mm970040.htm
(Gates on gun control)

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/july-dec97/guns_11-4.html
(more money for gun control from Gates and his father)

"Bill Gates Is No Free Market Hero"
http://brian.carnell.com/articles/2000/12/000046.html

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/opinion/datelinedc/s_176864.html

Windows XP Shows the Direction Microsoft is Going
http://www.hevanet.com/peace/microsoft.htm

"the changing politics of Bill Gates" (national review, john j. miller)
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1282/2_51/53662235/p1/article.jhtml

2002 Feb 2, In NYC protesters of the World Economic Forum turned
out in large numbers. Inside foreign economic leaders criticized
the US for protectionist policies, and Bill Gates and U2 rock star
Bono pushed for increases in foreign aid by rich countries to poor
countries."
http://timelines.ws/days/02_02.HTML

"Software, soft money, and Libertarians"
http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0039/news-anderson.shtml
[Bill gives money to both sides--whoever supports Microsoft and extreme social left policies. ...includes Barney Frank.]

Client testimonials, Bill Gates in China, Bill Clinton in China
http://www.beijinghighlights.com/testimonials/testimonials.htm

"State-owned Software Firm Ties up with Microsoft China"
http://fpeng.peopledaily.com.cn/200107/07/eng20010707_74398.html


96 posted on 11/04/2004 4:44:16 PM PST by familyop (Essayons)
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To: familyop

Tell the creators of FF to look at those pages, not me.


97 posted on 11/04/2004 4:44:49 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (Congratulations President-Re-Elect George W. Bush!)
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To: BigSkyFreeper

I will tell you that with IE you are taking a huge risk with security. It does work well because all webpages are written to accomidate it. Its plugins work better. But Everyone I know who has used it has ended up with hundreds of spyware programs and trogens. I have even picked up a few myself while using it to view pages. Those people I set up with Netscape or Mozilla never had a single problem with Spyware. So IE is really a very bad security risk.


98 posted on 11/04/2004 4:45:04 PM PST by Revel
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To: Terpfen

Nope; I'm talking about the mousover events -- the footnotes. If you're using Ff, you don't even know they're there. In Avant/IE, mouseover a footnote, and the contents pop up without a click.

Dan


99 posted on 11/04/2004 4:47:03 PM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: Revel

I Don't Use IE

Just in certain instances. I know all about the security risks. I've probably used a computer a lot longer than most on this forum and probably in this thread.
100 posted on 11/04/2004 4:47:23 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (Congratulations President-Re-Elect George W. Bush!)
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