Posted on 11/26/2004 10:56:51 PM PST by FairOpinion
That's the first idiotic statement I have seen on the whole thread.
There are over 60,000 gun laws on the books and a good many of them will land you in jail for just possession.
I suggest that if you go to the city of Washington D.C. that you leave all your firearms at home.
If the federal courts find that businesses have the right to ban firearms from their property without provision for the Second Amendment rights of the public individual then if you go on the property of these businesses while in possession of a firearm for any reason you will be guilty of trespass and subject to the whatever the penalty may warrant.
That's the rub isn't it.
My home is not open to the general public but is truly private property.
This is where the conflict of what is really public and what is really private meet.
Just because a business is privately owned does not make it's premises private if those premises are open to the public.
Does a business whose property is open to the general public have the right to serve whites only? What about men only, or Baptist or whatever.
People have certain rights that the Constitution guarantees them. We call them civil rights.
This is where the American people have been brainwashed in to thinking that the Second Amendment is a privilege from the Government and not an inalienable right.
If you are going to open a business to he general public you can't discriminate against a certain group of those people and ask them to check their Constitution rights at the edge of your property.
You cannot have freedom without risk.
If we are to have a free society then we have to believe that the majority of the people are good and can be trusted to do the right thing with those freedoms.
If we do not quit fleeing from shadows and give our fellow citizen the benefit of doubt that the majority are like us and share our basic beliefs of right and wrong then what freedoms we have left will continue to disappear.
What we will have a society that depends totally on the Government to regulate everything from the size of our commode to what we are allowed to think.
Then where're almost there. Aren't we?
I also believe that you are honest in that you do want only what your idea of reasonable restrictions passed. I believe your intentions are meant for good.
The problem is that there are 250,000,000 other people who have their ideas of what are reasonable restrictions are including Sara Brady and Ted Kennedy.
That's how got to all these thousands of gun laws to start with.
They haven't worked in the past.
The only people these laws disarm are people who choose to obey the law.
These you don't have to fear to start with.
I don't understand how if your ideas where adopted how you would put them into practice. Would you search your customers to see if they had a weapon?
How would you know if they where ABCD or even if they had a license. How would you know if the license is legitimate or a forgery they bought for $50.
What I'm trying to say is good faith has to enter in somewhere in the process.
The millions of CCW carriers have more than proved that the vast majority of American citizens can be trusted to act in a responsible, safe, and effective manner.
They like you have no wish to to harm anyone or to use a gun in such a way as to face the same nightmare of litigation that you are wary of.
The only reason for anyone to even know they have a weapon is when they produce it when they perceive their life to be in imminent danger.
If anyone uses a gun even if he is in the right it could cost him everything he owns.
No one in his right mind is going to do so except in a desperate life threatening situation.
Privete businesses, like private property owners, have the right not to allow you on their property with a weapon, if this was not the case, this would no have ended up in Court.
They do, and now some people are trying to take that right away.
But there are no laws anywhere in the United States that makes possession of any and all firearms a criminal offense to individuals who have not been convicted of felony crimes.
Employees are not "the general public", they are employees drawing a wage from the guy who sets the rules. If you don't like his rules, quit accepting his job and his money and go work elsewhere.
Private businesses premises are not open to the general public unless the owner so desires, and as it's been pointed out to you, even the owners of public places (bars and saloons) can ban their customers from bringing a weapon into their establishment.
Luis I'm not trying to be rude but I really don't understand what you are trying to say.
It seems you are not on the same page as the rest of us. You affirm some of my points in your statements and then tell me I'm wrong.
If you read the article you will find that in court is where this decision is at awaiting the outcome.
There are regulatory laws for ownership of a firearm, there are specific firearms which are illegal to own and posses,
You say there are laws that make the ownership of certain firearms illegal to possess, which is exactly what I'm saying.
If you read my earlier posts you will not see where I said you could not own a firearm but that if all businesses banned firearms from there property, which you say they can, that you would not be able to go on their property with a firearm without breaking the law.
Yes private clubs with private membership can ban certain individuals because they are totally private.
But a privately owned say restaurant that is open to the public is not he same as a private club with private members or your home which is not open to the public.
I can refuse the right to anyone to come in my home for any reason even because I don' like their race, creed, color, religion,or the way they comb their hair.
If I owned said restaurant and it was open to the public I could not.
But there are no laws anywhere in the United States that makes possession of any and all firearms a criminal
As I said before if you live in the city of Washington D.C. I believe it is against the law to own or posses a firearm of any kind.
Don't forget 18 USC section 922(g), which I believe was the basis for the famous Emerson case in Texas.
This federal law says it is illegal to possess firearms or ammunition if under a restraining order restraining harassment, stalking, or threatening of an intimate partner or partner's child.
Emerson received a boilerplate restraining order -- his guns immediately became illegal.
If I owned a restaurant, and I put up a sign at the door saying "no guns allowed" and you tried to come in with a gun, the police will remove you. Your choice then becomes simple...leave the gun at the door, or eat elsewhere.
It cannot be illegal to own a firearm of any sort in the city of Washington, that's a violation of your Second Amendment rights.
Your portrayal of people who go to gun shows as a bunch of incompetent drunks is not true and only reinforces the fact that you see yourself as some kind of superior being.
I have been going to guns shows for almost forty years in a number of states including eastern Florida.
Now I haven't been there in about six years but I have never seen anyone drunk at any of them. I don't recall alcohol being consumed or sold at any of them. But then I don't drink so I can't say for sure about Florida.
However it's clear I'm wasting my time in discussion with you.
There are some more things that are clear to me also from your replies.
1. You see others as inferior, incompetent, untrustworthy, dangerous beings who should be controlled and denied the very rights that you claim for your own.
2.It is also clear you do not believe in or support the Second Amendment.
You only believe that you and those who measure up to your personal standards and station in life should be allowed means to defend themselves.
With the kingly attitude you have of yourself and the peasant opinion you have of others few will be able to do so.
3. If I where going to ban someone from owning a firearm or holding a position of authority over others it would be those like you.
It is a dangerous thing to have people in a position of authority or in possession of a firearm who places a lesser value on the life and rights of others than he does his own.
But then I wouldn't do that, because not only do I really believe in the Second Amendment, I trust the average ever day American to do the right thing, more so than I do the Government and that right is too important to let the actions of a few who abuse it cause the rest of us to be without it.
Regards.
USC Title 18, Chapter 13, Section 241 states that it is a federal felony, punishable by 10 years, to "to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same"
This particular korporate edict was clearly used to "injure, oppress, threaten, and intimidate" those employees that were freely exercising their Right to keep and bear arms. After all, if you can't keep a firearm in your private vehicle, what good is the RKBA?
Every single bozo involved in the firing of these employees ought to be charged with federal felonies, and the kompany should face a massive civil lawsuit as a result of this crime.
This particular korporate edict was clearly used to "injure, oppress, threaten, and intimidate" those employees that were freely exercising their Right to keep and bear arms. After all, if you can't keep a firearm in your private vehicle, what good is the RKBA?
This is settled law. Your employer supersedes many of your rights. The most obvious is the 1st Amendment right to free speech. Few would argue that an employer cannot dismiss a worker who speaks against the interest of the company. Sorry to say that the courts have held the same thing on the 2nd... so far.
Personally I do not;however, the courts apparently do, so there's your precedent.
I believe it is illegal to own handguns without a permit (which is very hard to get) but you can own rifles.
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